is anyone running a plow on a 3rd gen?
- Thread starter 2runnersnyynyg
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TheDurk
Elite Member
I'd say it is more the shock of the plow against snow at the end of a push transmitted to the frame while the 4 driving wheels are pushing forward at the same time. All that force is distributed over everything between the tires and the frame--bearings and bushings are just the weakest links. It's like tying a few mattresses to a tree and hitting it with a solid bumper 20 or 30 times an hour. You have to push hard or you don't have room to put the snow in. Just pushing snow forward in a straight line is not that big a deal. (I've been plowing a lot lately on a machine that can take it--my 4Runner stays in the garage.)
TheDurk
Elite Member
I'm not sure I buy this. The same shocks are transmitted to the frame by the plow and the tires are still pushing the ground just as hard. You just move in reverse when you are pushing. But changing which end is receiving the shock to the frame can't make that much difference as the frame itself is virtually inelastic.
Shocks transmitted to the frame? Not a concern. That's not the reason plowing is hard on any vehicle's front end.
The front end of any vehicle is fairly complex because it not only had to support the weight of the engine, but it's also responsible for steering, about 70% of the braking, and in the case of our 4wd 4Runners, it also provides traction. You've got to realize that there's a lot of stuff in a front end. Not just the normal springs/shocks/struts, but also the steering rack, CV joints/axles, sway bars/links, etc... Add on the weight of a conventional plow and it's attachement hardware and it's easy to see why plowing is so hard on a vehicle's front suspension. Most vehicles simply aren't designed for that kind of extra stress, unless you're talking about something like a Ford Super Duty, which is obviously built much more heavy duty.
Now think about a pull plow. It is attached to the rear of the vehicle. It is supported by the rear suspension and puts zero stress on the front suspension. And our 4Runners have a strong rear suspension with a live rear axle and a fully boxed ladder frame. Our 4Runners are built to tow, so any extra weight of a pull plow is well below any weight limitations. There's simply no reason whatsoever to worry about a pull plow on a 4Runner. And there's really no "shock" to the vehicle either, because a pull plow doesn't transmit much of anything to the vehicle. When I've used my pull plow in the past, it's very smooth and almost unnoticeable. Other than a small amount of rear end squat, you'd hardly know it was there.
TheDurk
Elite Member
Fine. Then just leave it that pull plows are not suitable for the kind of plowing that most of have to do. If I can't ram snow so that I can push back a bank that is 3 foot high or better, I can't get the job done in my parking area or at the ends (I have two) of the drive . And that means shocking the frame. I have to hit piled snow with my six-foot Meyer on a 4000 lb. tractor with chains and loaded tires at a pretty good speed to get enough room to put the snow in. A full-size pick-up has to do the same thing. If you ain't shockin', you ain't plowin'. The amount of snow in that video is pretty wimpy stuff, to be honest. Right now I've got over 40 inches on either side along a 1/4 mile drive, and 30" in the middle of the field. And this is NJ, not exactly Fargo.
If you don't think the shock is hard on the front end of a vehicle plowing snow, then I can only conclude you haven't done it much. I have, for many years. Saying the contrary will not convince me.
My plowing rig (1966 IH 140, 4-cyl 123 cid, 4000lbs., 11.2x24tires @600lbs.each w/CaCl, and 72" Meyer plow):
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I don't think you understand how pull plows are supposed to work. You don't ram (or push) the plow into a huge pile of snow. You "pull" the snow, hence the term pull plow. The plow follows behind the vehicle.
I live in NY, so I'm well aware of the type of winter we've been having in the NY/NJ area this winter. It's not exactly typical. That said, if you wait until 40 inches of snow piles up before you start plowing, you're gonna have trouble no matter what. And also consider that pull plows are very common on tractors. One guy even posted a picture of his in the snow plow thread in the 4th gen forum.
I've used several different vehicles for plowing over the years, including conventional front mount plows and pull plows, so I have plenty of experience with both. Have you ever owned (or even used) a pull plow? I'm guess you have no experience with them, based upon your comments in this thread.
Exactly. The pull plows that I linked are mostly intended for homeowners to do their own driveways. Not for a professional to use constantly. But some guys do use them as add-ons to their pick-ups so they have front & rear plows to save time.
TheDurk
Elite Member
I have no experience with pull plows. Forty inches is the height of what is on the sides of my drive after 7 or 8 storms and plowing more times than that, obviously. I try to plow during the storm if it will be more than 12". I've had to do that twice this year. I am saying two things:
a) a plow that won't push a pile of snow just won't work for most people. If all you are doing is clearing a modest amount of snow off a road through an open field it's probably fine. If you are not in an open rural area and have to deal with retaining walls and fences close to your drive or parking area and narrow streets where you push out to, I just don't believe it's practical. It certainly would not work for me, even in a more normal year. That said, I don't think one of those light front-mounts on a 4Runner would do much better once the snow started piling up.
b) shock is a major factor in the abuse a conventional plow causes to the suspension of a vehicle, even more than the stress caused by the weight of the plow itself (contrary to your first quote that I clipped above). This I know from talking to mechanics and people that plow for a living. The latter are always breaking stuff in their suspensions at a painful rate--it's just a cost of the business.
I actually think it's a neat item. It's just not for everybody. My tractor forum has discussed pull plows in this and other winters, and farmers who use them have admitted their limitations. They are most popular on older tractors that lack the hydraulics needed for a front mount where they are the only real alternative.
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Gotcha. Yeah, pull plows are obviously not ideal for every situation. But they do have several advantages. For people just trying to keep a driveway clear, they usually work very well. I just back up to my garage, drop the plow, and pull out to the street. The pull plow in my link does back plow, but I certainly wouldn't "ram" the plow too hard. It's just not designed for that and I never found much reason to do that.
But rest assured, a 4Runner is more than enough vehicle to operate a pull plow without causing any damage to the vehicle. And that's all I was saying from the beginning. It's a great low-cost option for people who live in the snow belt and don't want to pay someone to plow their driveway all the time.
But rest assured, a 4Runner is more than enough vehicle to operate a pull plow without causing any damage to the vehicle. And that's all I was saying from the beginning. It's a great low-cost option for people who live in the snow belt and don't want to pay someone to plow their driveway all the time.
2runnersnyynyg
New member
The debate between front or rear mount plow got a little crazy?
I definatley would go front mount with a plow that floats so when u hit the big pile it doesn't hurt so much? I think this season I will skip but save over the summer to put a nice front mount plow on the 98.
Thanks for input. The taco at work seems to hold up pretty well and don't think it has to many issues from the abuse it sees
I definatley would go front mount with a plow that floats so when u hit the big pile it doesn't hurt so much? I think this season I will skip but save over the summer to put a nice front mount plow on the 98.
Thanks for input. The taco at work seems to hold up pretty well and don't think it has to many issues from the abuse it sees
Brian757
New member
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Dirtco
New member
One of the worst things you can do to a vehicle is install a plow on it, period. I worked in an off-road shop that also did a lot of plow work during the winter, it destroys a vehicle, especially an IFS vehicle. Bent frames, cracked frames, burned up transmissions, worn and broken suspension components, etc, etc; not to mention the alignment and tire issues. I would never buy a vehicle that had a plow on it (unless that was to be it's only job, forever).
I agree with the comments stating that this is not a good idea. The 3rd gen 4Runner would not make a good plow platform due to its weak lower ball joint design and rack and pinion steering. A better choice would be the older model 4Runner/Tacoma, or a truck with a solid front axle like the Dodge Ram.
