KidVermicious
New member
That's all I needed to read to know exactly what the rest of that article was going to say.
Is it safe?
- Thread starter GrantK
- Start date
That's all I needed to read to know exactly what the rest of that article was going to say.
viktor17
New member
Speaking of accidently stupid
Speaking of accidently stupid:driver did not carry a firearm and stopped at intersection during LA riots. This is from Wiki:
"Reginald Oliver Denny, then 33 years old, was a construction truck driver. On the first day of the rioting, Denny was attacked by four men, pulled from his truck and brutally beaten, sustaining serious head injuries and other injuries. As a result of the injuries he suffered during the attacks, Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, and his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged"
Speaking of accidently stupid:driver did not carry a firearm and stopped at intersection during LA riots. This is from Wiki:
"Reginald Oliver Denny, then 33 years old, was a construction truck driver. On the first day of the rioting, Denny was attacked by four men, pulled from his truck and brutally beaten, sustaining serious head injuries and other injuries. As a result of the injuries he suffered during the attacks, Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, and his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged"
phillyd2
Senior Member
I agree! I think its also insane that we would need to lock our doors. But, we are a insane species living in a insane world.
I've always loved our Northern Brother's view of the world. Reminds me of the guy living next to the police station saying: Crime? What crime?
GrantK
New member
The fact that you posted info from a known anti-gun hack shows you don't research the facts. As an example, where's the study to the number of people knifed, bludgeoned and beaten in their home and didn't have a gun to defend themselves?
You can go on believing what the liberals call 'facts' if it makes you happy or try looking behind their numbers and you'll see how they manipulate them to promote lies. Try Lott's book as I suggested, he completely explains his numbers.
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Common sense
HARPER7.....my thoughts exactly.
When seconds count the police are minutes away.
How do I know? I am one of them.
HARPER7.....my thoughts exactly.
When seconds count the police are minutes away.
How do I know? I am one of them.
UFG8R Runner
New member
-JD- , it's worth mentioning that there is a direct correlation between increased concealed carry and a reduction in violent crime. Loosened gun laws have had a very favorable impact on crime here in Florida. In fact, it's kind of funny that the most violent cities in America actually have the most stringent gun laws...hmm. Those laws did a great job of stopping law abiding citizens from carrying weapons...
Think about it-- if you're a criminal, and you have NO idea whether a potential "victim" is armed or not, wouldn't you think twice? I know I would.
NO law abiding citizen wants to be forced to use a gun. However, it is my view that it is our fundamental responsibility to be self-reliant. At a minimum, we must be capable of protecting our families and ourselves from those who may seek to do us harm-- I see it as a basic human right. In addition to asking for the right to effectively protect ourselves, should we also ask the government to give us permission to breathe?
What could be more important than at least having the ability to protect our right to live?
OK, I'll get off my soap box now. I just feel strongly that--despite all of my guns-- I am ZERO threat to anyone who does not put me or my family in imminent fear of our lives.
Bay33saw
New member
I am assuming from your screen name that you are from "Magpie country", I grew up there too "Byker", and trust me there are parts of that town where I wish I was able to carry a gun. Now I live in the states, it's "refreshing" to be able to carry and protect myself and more importantly my family, granted I have never have to use it in the 15 years I've carried, but I have no question about using it at all, it's not like the wild west out here, gun owners (Or most of them have to have training not only in use of the firearms but also the laws.
Better to be safe than sorry, especially when faced with some of the scum that are out there. I personally have worked too damn hard to have my stuff stolen or vandalised let along having the feeling that someone has gone through all my private stuff, sure TV's, computers can be replaced, but if I can work and save to buy my stuff why can't others. I think it's a fundamental right to protect your family as best you can, from anyone foreign or domestic..............................Oh and let's not forget the Zombie Apocalypse! Had to lighten it up a little at the end.
I just wish we had a "Castle Rule" like they have in Texas.
BTW Welcome to the board
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RandyDaytona
New member
Considering the fact that I am a law enforcement officer, no it doesn't. That said, I've never been convinced that everyone should be allowed to carry a gun, simply because I come into contract with so many idiots who have them. YMMV.
Regarding the security if the Console Vault - I agree: nothing is totally foolproof, and if someone really wants to get what you have in there, they're going to need time and probably some equipment. Those are 2 things many thieves don't have a large supply of (though you never know: I have a colleague who had his agency unmarked vehicle broken into at night in front of his house. The thieves took the time to unscrew all of the bolts holding his gun rack and made off with a both his shotgun and M4!)
Bay33saw
New member
Ouch! I hope his insurance pays for that......$$$$
huntsonora
Member
Reminds of the guy that put this sign in his yard after his neighbor have him grief about gun ownership
-JD-
New member
Source?
I have provided links to government websites that provide statistics and facts.
Again, "When it comes to violence, nearly every figure suggests that increased presence of guns correlates with higher levels of injury and death"
"Within the US, areas with high gun ownership have higher rates of these problems."
"Still, in cases where a homicide occurs in a home, the presence of a gun there is correlated with increased risk, even after controlling for things like drug use and previous arrests."
Isn't this just logical? If someone pulls a gun on me, and I then pull my own gun, the odds of someone getting shot in this situation have NOT GONE DOWN. To think so is insane.
"Regular citizens with guns, who are sometimes tired, angry, drunk, or afraid, and who are not trained in dispute resolution, have lots of opportunities for inappropriate gun use,"
The problem with that analogy is that it is the next door neighbor who is committing all the violent gun related crimes. US gun crime rates are way higher.
A better analogy would be the guy who's neighbor believes every member of his household should be armed, but can't figure out why his kids keep getting shot.
This is bananas. Did all of you even read the article?
phillyd2
Senior Member
Dude, this is a 4Runner forum. There are tons of gun forums you can join to debate your silliness. Funny, those of us with guns don't give a wit that you don't. How about extending us the same respect and tolerance?
And it has ZERO to do with crime. It's ALL about freedom and power. You have the queen to protect your rights. We have the 2nd amendment. We respect yours now respect ours.
And it has ZERO to do with crime. It's ALL about freedom and power. You have the queen to protect your rights. We have the 2nd amendment. We respect yours now respect ours.
1engineer
Moderator
I've got a question:
If guns were issued at the boarding gate to all adults boarding a plane do you think there would ever be another hijacking attempt? Do you think terrorists with boxcutters would have taken over planes?
Just a question.
Another question:
If police officers did not carry guns do you think bad guys would listen to them?
Another question:
If you were a bad guy would you threaten a guy that you knew had no gun or the guy that might have a gun?
gray street
New member
What if you get shot because the bad guy sees you have a gun
huntsonora
Member
Is this a serious question? Please tell me you're kidding
KidVermicious
New member
The game is not "who can come up with the most what ifs". Engineer's objective is to present logical scenarios that refute JB's premise that gun ownership is automatically unsafe. Once you start answering rhetorical questions with more rhetorical questions, you are not winning the debate, or even advancing it. You are conceding defeat, in fact, by showing that you are more interested in "winning" than in coming to any sort of reasoned conclusion with the people you are debating.
Not that I'd expect to see a reasoned debate about gun ownership anywhere on the web, but there you have it.
phillyd2
Senior Member
What if you get shot because the bad guy sees you have a nice truck and wants to steal it?
UFG8R Runner
New member
-JD- , I started to gear up to provide you with an avalanche of data supporting my position so I could respond to you with a cogent, thoroughly researched response. One devoid of the illusory correlations you lovingly reference. I DO love political debates.
Then I saw phillyD2's remarks:
"Dude, this is a 4Runner forum. There are tons of gun forums you can join to debate your silliness. Funny, those of us with guns don't give a wit that you don't. How about extending us the same respect and tolerance?
And it has ZERO to do with crime. It's ALL about freedom and power. You have the queen to protect your rights. We have the 2nd amendment. We respect yours now respect ours."
and I suddenly remembered: this IS a 4Runner forum.
So, -JD-, you're probably a great guy—we just fundamentally disagree about something that doesn't pertain to this forum. And we both seem to share an appreciation of 4Runners. So I'll say "cheers" to you and cheers to where we have common ground.
Now, where was I? Ohhhhh, that's right. I have to finish cleaning my gun.:uzi:
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huntsonora
Member
Yet another reason to be thankful I don't live in Canada
-JD-
New member
I do agree, its a 4runner forum, but at the same time if you dont care to read it there are plenty of other threads. (not trying to sound rude) I also welcome debate and hope that people dont imagine my tone being hostile when reading my posts, its not.
No one has provided any real evidence or data yet, just hypotheticals and anecdotal stories. I hate getting into hypothetical scenarios as someone else mentioned, when you do that you have already lost as you have failed to provide any real data or contribute anything meaningful. BUT
to answer you 1engineer, of course there would be hijacking attempts. We are talking about SUICIDAL PEOPLE here, they dont care about their own lives. A few shots through the exterior of the plane to depressurize it and total chaos would ensue. EVERYONE having a gun on a plane is a ridiculous idea.
Police having guns was never something i said i opposed. Again, i'm not at all opposed to gun ownership by responsible people. I enjoy hunting and going to the shooting range as much as the next guy, but that is very different from carrying around a handgun on yourself at all times with delusions of heroism.
Your third question is kind of an unusual one. Of course armed people get attacked as well. depends how specific you want to get with your scenario? Are we talking about shooting someone? punching them? mugging them?? In any scenario it is generally the criminal who pulls the gun first, so having your own gun and attempting to 'draw' while at gun point seems foolish as well.
Why? Our gun crime rates are significantly lower per capita.
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