Is QDR on the 4th Gen a myth?? (Quality, Dependability, Reliability)??

[pjbrownva]

Are the 4th Gen really as good as we claim (quality-wise), or are we just blinded by love, making excuses for the problems & short comings that we experience?

I had on 04 SR5 V6. I loved it. The brakes froze, and it needed some additional work. $3K later, I was rolling again, telling my wife "oh... 4Runners are some of the most reliable vehicles you can own."

Labor day weekend, I upgraded to an 08 Limited V8 with 110K on the clock.

I've since spent about $5K on it... and that's on top of the $21K purchase price.
(Things like stereo upgrades are NOT included in that $5K).

While some of the items could be considered maintenance, others are known 4runner quirks.

My work included...
-- New tires (can't complain).

-- Brakes pulsating badly (upgraded to 5th gen calipers & rotors -- due to 4th gen calipers tending to freeze)

-- 3 Leaking xreas shocks (yanked out system & put in bilstein 5100s w/ FJ coils)

-- "Vacuum cleaner" type sound when starting in cold temps... bought and installed a bypass kit from one of the members for some type of pump. If it had failed it would have required a $4K repair at the dealer. The bypass kit keeps this pump from running, thereby keeping it from failing -- a known 4Runner quirk.

-- Bad front passenger axle. Had to have it replaced.

-- Droning noise that changed with speed --> needed new front wheel bearings on both sides.

-- Rear tailgate switch problems when cold. The rubber over the switch deteriorated. I ordered a new switch & will put it in. It seems I'm not the first one to have this issue.

-- Swaybar end links worn out -- replaced with upgraded links made by a forum member.

-- Clunking noise from propeller shaft when I stop. Had it lubed once at a shop. Clunk came back. After more unspecified work (including more lube) it now SEEMS to be better. Found a TSB for the Lexus GX that specified installing some redesigned parts to fix the propeller shaft clunk. No idea if my problem would benefit by a similar parts swap, but not planning to spend the $$$, even if it were an option.

-- Bolts stripping that hold on the front armor. Apparently a common problem. My old 4Runner had it, and this 4Runner has it. Will have to drill & re-tap holes, or buy and install a thread repair kit (like I did on my old 4runner).

-- Reports of heavy frame rust (I don't have it... but I'm planing POR15 & Eastwood Internal Frame Coating)

-- Reports of exhaust manifolds cracking (I don't have it -- I'll leave well enough alone)

-- Reports of cracked dashboards (I'm fortunate to not have that too!)

So, as I spend more money on this "great" truck, I keep having to tell my wife "oh... these trucks are awesome, and legendary for their quality and reliability"... and then I spend more money on it and have to say stupid things like

"I needed to buy and install this $50 bypass kit because of that noise at startup. Good thing I have such a reliable, dependable truck. If I hadn't addressed that noise, it probably would have led to a failure that the dealer would want $4K to fix"

and

"I need to buy these special coatings for the frame of the truck, since I plan to keep it a long time. My truck was from Florida, so I'm lucky to have zero rust. In the spring I'll clean it thoroughly & apply these coatings, so that the frame won't start to rust. That's a known problem with these trucks that I want to avoid. Toyota even had a recall on a very similar frame used on the pickup truck version of this vehicle. Good thing I have such a quality truck."

and

"I had to spend all this money to have the whole suspension replaced, because three of the factory shocks (xreas) were leaking,and it was much cheaper to replace the whole suspension than to replace just the 4 original shocks. Don't worry... with 110K miles, this baby's just getting broken in. Good thing these are such high quality, reliable trucks!"

So... after driving this point into the ground :lookout:,

I've started this thread to seriously ask a question...

are the 4th Gen 4Runners really as high quality as we claim ???

or do we just love our trucks so much that we make excuses for its faults???

The local garage told me "you have a nice, nice, nice, nice truck. That's a really good truck that will last and be trouble free." Then I paid them another $1500, thanked them and drove off with a sense of pride and a big smile on my face... and that's not the only large bill I've dropped on this truck... -- and it's not because the shop is taking advantage of me!

Thoughts? opcorn:

 

[Ryanmb21]

I have had mine for 10 years.

I've had none of those problems, only expensive things I've had to do were change a weaping water pump at @109k and reboot by CVs. Original brake rotars front and rear, and original rear pads, replaced the front pads once. I replaced the x-reas with aftermarket suspension in week 1.

 

[T5RUNNER]

I can only say that I bought my 3rd gen because it was supposed to be one of the most reliable trucks ever made, and it was by far the biggest POS I have ever had. I literally spend more hours fixing it than I did driving it. At first I thought maybe it was just a lemon, but every time I had a problem and searched about it, there was a thread saying it was a common problem from a design flaw. I was so happy to be rid of that truck.

My last truck was a Ranger, and it never had a single problem in twelve years of hard use.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Or, did you buy a used vehicle that was not maintained properly?

It's easy to cast blame on Toyota, but did you rule out crappy treatment, or neglect from the previous owner?

If you bought a (bargain) used vehicle and didn't verify maint. History; you may have gotten what you paid for...

 

[Ryanmb21]

What are the design flaws you mention?

 

[CXS]

No issues with mine outside routine maintenance as I approach 200k. I pull a trailer over Colorado high passes and wheel it hard on trails. Like any vehicle there are good ones and bad ones usually determined by care given by owners.

 

[wnelax04sr5]

eh sometimes i feel the same way, maybe my love for the vehicle is blind. ive replaced a wheel bearing, i have an axle thats going out, i replaced a leaking radiator, etc.

but then i compare what ive had to do to friends who have other vehicles. my girlfriend had to replace the ECU in her tahoe when it was 3 years old. my brothers volvo xc70 needed a new engine after 80,000 miles, he was driving down the road and it just died, no explanation. a friend of mine has put two transmissions in his truck.

while 4runners may not be "maintenance free", id rather spend 3 or 4 or 5k on repairs over the course of its live rather than on one thing when its not even past 100k. some repairs may be an anomaly, but the fact of the matter is that they happen

 

[killzone90]

4th gen 4runner r good but all the stuff u said does happen to them. I work as a toyota tech and see alot of the stuff u talked about. But alot of the stuff u said r more maintenance stuff. I bought the v6 because of the cost of maintenance on a v8 and the pumps that go bad. The v8 does cost more and wheel bearings do go out. Alot of that stuff u could have done yourself easy and would have saved a ton of money.

 

[08t4rsr5]

I still owe a ton of money on my Runner. But in just one year I've only spent $1500 in maintenance and repairs. My rear axles were leaking so the seals were replaced and new bearings put in. Needed two new tires, and changed my front diff, rear end, and transfer case fluids. And oil changes every 5K. That's a lot less than I put put into my Silverado in the 6 months I owned it. Silverado had a radiator, tranny flush filter change, new shocks all the way around, serpentine belt, and battery all in 6 months plus oil changes, and the Silverado only had 60K on it! My Runner has been a lot more reliable and has been cheaper at the pump.

 

[Brian3676]

I asked this same question a few months ago. Everyone told me "it's 8 years old with 90k miles, sounds like common things to me" I was not going to argue, but I do agree they are not what they are talked up to be.

All before 90k I: rebuilt all 4 calipers, replaced sterio (not because I wanted to, it actually failed), transfer case actuator($$$$), radiator, both front wheel bearings, water pump failed at 80k so I did the timing belt a little early at the same time.

I don't have any frame rust luckily, and my emissions pump is ok. I was going to install the bypass thing that slyfox75 sells, but was told on a 2008 that Toyota got smart and make it so the bypass kits will throw a check engine light.

 

[lcbjr77]

I've spend a good amount a money on mine since buying it in May 2015.

Both front wheel bearings (did myself)
Battery (did myself)
Sway bar bushing (non Toyota dealer game me a break on these 3 items)
Sway bar end links
CV joint
Most recently was the Tranny shudder issue, had the dealership do a full flush and added that "Dr Tranny additive"...so far so good, shifts smooth like butter now. (Toyota dealer)

My next job is brakes which I'll do myself and still himming and yawing on which ones to go with

My feeling is that most of the items were were and tear items that eventually go, I harpooned the CV joint going on a job site where one of my customer had a dirt driveway. The tranny...if the flush works and I don't have to replace the whole damn thing I'm gonna be super happy.

 

[pjbrownva]

4th gen 4runner r good but all the stuff u said does happen to them. I work as a toyota tech and see alot of the stuff u talked about. But alot of the stuff u said r more maintenance stuff. I bought the v6 because of the cost of maintenance on a v8 and the pumps that go bad. The v8 does cost more and wheel bearings do go out. Alot of that stuff u could have done yourself easy and would have saved a ton of money.

I'm still listening....

opcorn:

 

[08t4rsr5]

Oh, and in regards to the OP, the guy who did my rear axles works for Toyota and he did it for me at his work on the weekend and only charged me an hour labor and parts at discount, but I was saying how reliable Toyota's are and how I will never buy anything else, he looked at me and laughed, and said, " If they were as great as they brag about I wouldn't have a job." That's a good point.......

 

[jrm]

Just saying..

but premature failure and /or wear of front suspension-transaxle parts makes me wonder if it had front end damage...

 

[robaroni]

I've owned mine for about 3 years. Has 145K miles. Only had to replace the gas cap. My truck has been bulletproof.

 

[killzone90]

The trans problem ain't the forst time I have heard it from people but we never see trans problems with them in r shop. We do see diff actuators go out where people never use there 4wd then try to after years and it sticks. We also see frame rust and rear pinion bearings go out alot on fj cruisers .

 

[pjbrownva]

I have had mine for 10 years.

I've had none of those problems, only expensive things I've had to do were change a weaping water pump at @109k and reboot by CVs. Original brake rotars front and rear, and original rear pads, replaced the front pads once. I replaced the x-reas with aftermarket suspension in week 1.

Good to hear [MENTION=7081]Ryanmb21[/MENTION].

I bought my truck used from a used car dealer. Two owner Florida truck.
Loaded & in gorgeous condition cosmetically both interior, exterior and undercarriage.

Plus the water pump & timing belt had already been changed, so I figured (perhaps stupidly), that it MUST be in good shape. 4Runners have great quality and anything in such great shape cosmetically, with the timing belt done, must have been kept up.

I guess I'll know in the long run if I made a poor choice. The $5K+ in bills over the past 6 months definitely caught me by surprise, and... yes, some of the bills would have been much lower if I had bought the parts and done the work myself. In fact, for SOME of the work, I did do it myself, but some of it I didn't have the knowledge, the time, or a suitable location.

It would have been much cheaper (maybe $3K cheaper) if I had ordered parts myself & done all of the work myself... on the other hand, it would have cost MUCH more if I hadn't take steps to save money (like buying new tires & a new TPMS sensor from tire rack, and then finding a local mom-and-pop garage to install & balance the tires for $80, and reprogramming the TPMS myself using a cable from ebay and software that I downloaded & installed thanks to posts on the forum).

I love my 4Runner, and plan to keep it (I've got $26K+ invested in a new-to-me 8 yr old truck with under 115K miles). I'm just starting to wonder about the reality of the QDR....

 

[pjbrownva]

I was going to install the bypass thing that slyfox75 sells, but was told on a 2008 that Toyota got smart and make it so the bypass kits will throw a check engine light.

I have a 2008 V8 Limited. I put in the bypass kit because I was hearing the tell-tale vacuum cleaner sound when starting during cold weather.

The kit worked. (Thank's [MENTION=8828]slyfox75[/MENTION] ! ). When I first put it in, it worked fine.
Later, I went back and sealed my connections with heat shrink tubing (rather foolishly) while the truck was running.

It threw some codes. Basically, while I don't recall the exact code, one of them was about an abnormal resistor reading related to temp sensor that engages the pump. (Duh... I guess putting a heat gun on the resistor while it's running is not a smart move!)

Anyway, I cleared the codes, and it's been fine since. I'd have to admit that the codes were my fault.

I asked this same question a few months ago. Everyone told me "it's 8 years old with 90k miles, sounds like common things to me"

I don't know if I would have PLANNED to spend this much to end up with an 8 yr old truck (cost & work over past 6 months), but as long as this isn't an on-going trend, I'll be OK with it. I think (in retrospect) that I probably would have done better buying an already upgraded truck directly from one of the forum members. At the time, I didn't know better. For example, I thought I would love XREAS, and I (mistakenly) thought that a lifted suspension would ride WORSE than factory, and give poorer mileage (that was my experience 20 yrs ago with a Jeep Wrangler). Little did I know that the xreas tends to fail around 100K, and that it's usually cost prohibitive to repair it, and that quality aftermarket suspensions tend to ride BETTER than stock... even when lifted.

4th gen 4runner r good but all the stuff u said does happen to them. I work as a toyota tech and see alot of the stuff u talked about. But alot of the stuff u said r more maintenance stuff.

Thanks [MENTION=78532]killzone90[/MENTION], and others, I appreciate the insight on issues with these trucks, especially from Techs, since you guys get to see many of these trucks with first hand experience.

The 4WD actuator on my truck was already replaced before I got it. Not sure why it would have gone bad, since it is full-time 4WD, but I do try to pop it into 4 LO about every month or 2, run it for a few blocks and then go back to fulltime 4H. I also lock the center diff, drive a block or so straight, then unlock it. I figure these parts will last longer if they are occasionally used.

Also planning to do the rear diff breather mod... only because I tow a boat, so I don't want to risk sucking water into a hot diff at a shallow launch where I have to back the truck in very deep to launch.

I'm not complaining about the mods... or the preventative maint. I'm just hoping that I won't keep getting surprised by items that seem to come out of nowhere and cost me money.

I am planning to replace all fluids with the correct types. I've done brake & power steering. Rear & front diffs will be next, followed by transfer case. I'll also check and replace engine coolant if it looks like it's due.

-Phil

Anyone else?

opcorn:

P.S. -- I also replaced my gas cap. It wasn't "clicking" when you tighten it, and I got a code too... it's one where everyone says "try the gas cap"... in my case, it really was the gas cap. The old o-ring seal was dried out, and the cap was bad, so the gas tank wasn't being pressurized like it should. Cheap fix, and I cleared the codes myself. No big deal.

 

[asdfman7]

Well, i'm coming from a 04 jetta, so of course I'm biased... I had it for one year then traded it in for an 08 4runner for my wife and inherited her 05. In that one year I spent more money on the jetta than I have in the 6 years we have owned the 05. That was one of the reasons we bought a seconded one.

Besides routine maintenance, I have replaced the front calipers, water pump, and resealed the timing cover on the 05 and the brake light switch on the 06...

 

[J053619]

To be fair you bought it with 110k and was previously owned by 2 people.

Ofof course there are biased opinions because we love our 4runners lol. As for me, I can't complain because the 4runner has stayed in my family and all that's needed replacing was the audio system (amp failed) & calipers. Other than that, the money I've spent has been maintenance and mods.

If your not satisfied with its currenty QDR, I recommend staying away from off roading and mods because you'll start breaking and wearing components faster.