Is there anything we can do to bumb the performance on the 4.0?

[TheWraith]

having built plenty of toyota's ...

What is said about Toyota USA having almost no aftermarket support... It's true !!! Unless your platform is a AE86, Supra, MR2 turbo, Tacoma, a TC or an XB ...

those cars compared to our rigs gets alot of aftermarket support...

I usually research alot before buying a car ( I call my frs a car. My 4runner a Rig / Truck ) ... I was just happy to find a few things for this Rig ...

As for modify something without aftermarket support it gets super expensive. Especially when your building 1 off piston or 1 off rods ... I know about uncharted territory...

I usually plan out my mods and any power mods gets dyno'ed to see if I made more power & torque if not it gets sold as a used part...

so to stay on topic ...

TRD Intake made 5whp & 19.1 Tq
Custom Hi Tuck exhaust = I'll let you know in a week ... when I dyno again
Y Pipe = will be buying this soon and post a dyno sheet

 

[Donovan1]

having built plenty of toyota's ...

What is said about Toyota USA having almost no aftermarket support... It's true !!! Unless your platform is a AE86, Supra, MR2 turbo, Tacoma, a TC or an XB ...

those cars compared to our rigs gets alot of aftermarket support...

I usually research alot before buying a car ( I call my frs a car. My 4runner a Rig / Truck ) ... I was just happy to find a few things for this Rig ...

As for modify something without aftermarket support it gets super expensive. Especially when your building 1 off piston or 1 off rods ... I know about uncharted territory...

I usually plan out my mods and any power mods gets dyno'ed to see if I made more power & torque if not it gets sold as a used part...

so to stay on topic ...

TRD Intake made 5whp & 19.1 Tq
Custom Hi Tuck exhaust = I'll let you know in a week ... when I dyno again
Y Pipe = will be buying this soon and post a dyno sheet

:car: The TRD made an extra 19 ft lbs torque?!?! That sounds pretty spicy...

 

[TheWraith]

:car: The TRD made an extra 19 ft lbs torque?!?! That sounds pretty spicy...

Pls refer to my Build thread... I have all dyno charts there

 

[wfo9]

One thing that cracks me up about Toyota is their involvement in NASCAR... It's really an odd attempt to buy into a market segment. I'm shocked it is worth their marketing dollars given the fact that they have no performance oriented cars carrying the Toyota badge. Do redneck NASCAR fans really buy Camary(s)?

 

[Bevo]

One thing that cracks me up about Toyota is their involvement in NASCAR... It's really an odd attempt to buy into a market segment. I'm shocked it is worth their marketing dollars given the fact that they have no performance oriented cars carrying the Toyota badge. Do redneck NASCAR fans really buy Camary(s)?

Nope, but they buy tons of pickups.

 

[16blacktrail]

I have owned many high performance vehicles and this 2016 trail is my first vehicle that I plan to keep the motor mostly stock and untouched. Here is my question, I think I want to buy a good filter rather than a complete air box, I think a better filter will be more than enough to allow the car to breathe better without having to change the air box. What are your thought? I have always changed the air box when messing with the boost on my other cars and changing fuel but since I don't plan on changing much I think it will take care of the job. Thanks

 

[TheWraith]

I have owned many high performance vehicles and this 2016 trail is my first vehicle that I plan to keep the motor mostly stock and untouched. Here is my question, I think I want to buy a good filter rather than a complete air box, I think a better filter will be more than enough to allow the car to breathe better without having to change the air box. What are your thought? I have always changed the air box when messing with the boost on my other cars and changing fuel but since I don't plan on changing much I think it will take care of the job. Thanks

Afe pro dry s drop in...

Air Filters Direct Fit aFe Power Magnum FLOW OER PRO 5R Air Filters; Toyota 4Runner/FJ Cruiser 10-13 V6-4.0L 30-10208 - aFe Power

 

[ecsnead]

Anyone had any luck changing throttle bodies?

 

[TheWraith]

Anyone had any luck changing throttle bodies?

To what throttle body ???

 

[Jetboy]

I have owned many high performance vehicles and this 2016 trail is my first vehicle that I plan to keep the motor mostly stock and untouched. Here is my question, I think I want to buy a good filter rather than a complete air box, I think a better filter will be more than enough to allow the car to breathe better without having to change the air box. What are your thought? I have always changed the air box when messing with the boost on my other cars and changing fuel but since I don't plan on changing much I think it will take care of the job. Thanks

It won't do anything. You can take the filter out, swap the box, whatever you want, and it won't add 1 hp.

 

[Dalko43]

If Toyota were to put a turbo diesel in this truck, it would be extremely easy to increase engine performance, especially with the aftermarket diesel scene in this country.....just saying.

Now where is that dead horse from the other thread I started? I think I need to hit it a few more times...:deadhorse:

 

[ColoT4R]

It's pretty obvious when you go from another vehicle (including 4th gen 4Runner) to the 5th gen 4Runner that the pedal/ECU is tuned for maximum gas mileage.
Yes if you could crack the ECU code and re-program you would get Tundra V-8 like MPG with a boost in acceleration, but that's impossible at this point due to Toyota's locked down computers, which is a bad but good thing (notice nobody has hacked a 4Runner driving down the road ie Chrysler)

Toyota doesn't do diesels in the US so that won't happen anytime soon, and the supercharger dream is dead.

So, when you realize 4runners have always been slow (we've owned multiple of every generation) you'll realize you just have to live with it!

 

[1engineer]

That whole paragraph is extremely subjective and full of assumptions (some might even say inaccurate ones).

Are you really suggesting that GM, Jeep and Ford purposely build their vehicles and cater to the aftermarket crowd simply so stuff can break and they can make more sales?

And where is this proof that Jeep's aftermarket sales is the only thing keeping it in the black?

I'm not a Chevy fan by any stretch, but the reason their LS crate engines and performance parts (among other manufacturer offerings) are so widely sold is because they offer reliable amounts of torque and power, at a relatively cheap price point.

I think the real reason that Toyota removed itself from the aftermarket/modding scene is because they know that companies like Jeep, Ford and GM already have a firm grip on those markets (here in the US). Toyota doesn't want to spend the time and resources to try and compete. It seems in other places though (like Australia) there is a thriving aftermarket scene for Toyota vehicles (not OEM, but still there seems to be better aftermarket support).

Please provide a link to that article. I'd be interested in seeing what it actually sets out to prove.


There are few different factors that go into determining a company's price per share (for public stock). An increased price per share, does not necessarily mean that the company is actually increasing its profits (and vice versa).

Also, GM and Ford were both heavily leveraged (still are) and relied on government loans and share purchases (in GM's case) to weather the last economic crisis. As a result, market demand and investor confidence in those companies have only recently started to increase, despite the fact that their production and sales numbers have drastically increased since the 2009 crisis.

In summary, throwing out a few stock prices doesn't really prove much. You'd have to show actual sales numbers and corporate balance sheets to make your case.

Here is a link from Detroit news showing profit made per vehicle. I looked for the Forbes article and couldn't find it. Even though this article is written with an obviously biased slant against Japanese vehicles it shows the enormous disparity between Toyota and the rest of the field. Here it is Toyota's per-car profits lap Detroit's Big 3 automakers but they do not elaborate on the business models here. If you would care to take the time you can look at each company's P&L to see where the profit (new versus aftermarket) is coming from. Also remember that Toyota sells only three or four different optioned packages per vehicle and the bulk of their sales is on the lower end of the optioned spectrum. GM, Ford and Fiat mostly sell the higher optioned vehicles which have much more profit added in.

I have read enough of your posts to know that this, nor nothing I or anyone else says (reference the "diesel" thread), will convince you of your preconceived notions. That's OK. Hopefully this data will help others when they try to figure out what makes Toyota different than the other guys. BTW in the Forbes article I remember it showed the European OEM's and while they were not much better than the American guys.

 

[Dalko43]

Here is a link from Detroit news showing profit made per vehicle. I looked for the Forbes article and couldn't find it. Even though this article is written with an obviously biased slant against Japanese vehicles it shows the enormous disparity between Toyota and the rest of the field. Here it is Toyota's per-car profits lap Detroit's Big 3 automakers but they do not elaborate on the business models here. If you would care to take the time you can look at each company's P&L to see where the profit (new versus aftermarket) is coming from. Also remember that Toyota sells only three or four different optioned packages per vehicle and the bulk of their sales is on the lower end of the optioned spectrum. GM, Ford and Fiat mostly sell the higher optioned vehicles which have much more profit added in.

From the very article that you referenced:

Currency, labor rates and legacy costs are all factors in the gap between Detroit automakers and Toyota, according to analysts and industry experts.

and

A weak yen cheapens the price of Japan's exports, making Japanese cars cheaper to buy in the United States.

And these two as well:

Citing investment firm Morgan Stanley, Hinrichs said weakening of the yen puts roughly $2,000 per export vehicle in the pockets of Japan's three largest automakers — Toyota, Nissan and Honda.

Rep. Debbie Dingell, D-Dearborn, last month pegged that differential even higher: Dingell, a former auto executive, said currency manipulation has helped create a "subsidy" to Japanese automakers that she said now tops $8,000 per vehicle.

Take that last source with a grain of salt, since Democrats are more inclined to discourage international competition, but still valid issues for consideration when discussing earnings per vehicle.

 

[wfo9]

If Toyota were to put a turbo diesel in this truck, it would be extremely easy to increase engine performance, especially with the aftermarket diesel scene in this country.....just saying.

Now where is that dead horse from the other thread I started? I think I need to hit it a few more times...:deadhorse:

Nope, IF Toyota were to put a diesel in these trucks it would have about 170hp and it would not be tunable and would be slow as crap. :lol:

To be honest, All brands are going to start getting harder and harder to modify. Even after warranty is up. They are all getting pressure to lock it down and put the lawyers on the aftermarket. It's a rather disappointing direction the industry is moving, but I understand why it is happening. It will be a tough battle though, enthusiast will not go down without a fight and they are an innovative group.

On the bright side, just about every mfg is coming out with very exciting performance cars that have enough power to satisfy most people. As long as you have the cash... there are some amazing performance cars up for sale (Just not Toyota).

 

[drdevon]

Pls refer to my Build thread... I have all dyno charts there

Can't find it on the 'build thread' sticky. Could you link it?

 

[Whiplash Willy]

The problem isn't that the 1GR-FE doesn't have enough power, it has plenty, as can be seen when you floor it.

The real problem is the throttle mapping isn't 1:1. When you press the pedal down 50%, the ECU equates that to say 30% throttle input. That combined with a TCU that never wants to invoke a downshift, or hold a lower gear, just makes the 5th Gen Feel slow in most situations. The 5th Gen tries it's best to keep you out of its power band at all times. In normal driving, I rarely see anything above 2000RPM, unless I really step on it. Then if you floor it, and actually get it into its power band, it will immediately upshift once you let off the throttle, even a little.

More power isn't the answer, and neither is a V8. The GX460 has the same horrible fuel economy programming as the 4Runner, and if you will notice, GX460 owners complain that it feels slow as well.

In all of the "Lack of Power" threads I have seen over the years, the actual source of the problem is missed, and people just want to throw HP or V8s at the problem, thinking that will fix their problem.

I have been looking at 2015+ WRX's lately, and interestingly enough, they have the exact opposite issue. Their throttle mapping isn't 1:1 either, but 30% Pedal Input will translate to 50% Throttle Input, which makes the WRX feel faster, but also cause drive-ability issues at low speed. Why can't auto manufactures stop messing around with ECTs, and just give us 1:1 linear throttle input?

 

[1engineer]

From the very article that you referenced:



and



And these two as well:



Take that last source with a grain of salt, since Democrats are more inclined to discourage international competition, but still valid issues for consideration when discussing earnings per vehicle.

See, that's why I added the "spin" caveat. You must consider the source lol. Please take the time to find out WHERE Fiat, Ford, Toyota and GM produce vehicles. Now take the time to convert currency and labor costs from around 100 countries where those vehicles and parts are produced. Bottom line is if you were comparing JUST the US and Japan then there would be disparity like the article (biased towards the US) suggests. When you realize that those manufacturers are producing globally with advantages and disadvantages of every country, then those numbers become moot and the differences between vehicle profit per unit are accurate. Gotta read past the spin.

 

[Dalko43]

See, that's why I added the "spin" caveat. You must consider the source lol. Please take the time to find out WHERE Fiat, Ford, Toyota and GM produce vehicles. Now take the time to convert currency and labor costs from around 100 countries where those vehicles and parts are produced. Bottom line is if you were comparing JUST the US and Japan then there would be disparity like the article (biased towards the US) suggests. When you realize that those manufacturers are producing globally with advantages and disadvantages of every country, then those numbers become moot and the differences between vehicle profit per unit are accurate. Gotta read past the spin.

1) If you thought that the article had "spin" then why did you use it to try and prove your point?

2) Just about all the major manufacturers produce globally because they are selling globally. That said, the majority of "US manufactured" vehicles (made by US companies) bought by Americans are in fact made in this country....the major exception/caveat being that many have components made in Mexico and China.

The reality is that there are some vehicles that are more "American-made" than others. A good number of Toyota vehicles (and Japanese vehicles in general) sold in America are not made in America at all. Hence why a Japanese company can take advantage of currency fluctuations, labor policies and tax rates that American companies aren't privy to.

This article by Edmunds and a corresponding study do a good job of explaining this issue:

Foreign Cars Made in America: Where Does the Money Go | Edmunds.com

2015

 

[Donovan1]

Can't find it on the 'build thread' sticky. Could you link it?

It's in his signature.