KDSS front sway bar replaced...

[TRDTommy]

So my front sway bar was replaced under warranty because of one of the bushings under the KDSS cylinder getting loose and separating. I took my truck in to point out the issue back in December. And here we are now that it is February. It took a whole bunch of calls and messages from me to get this repair rolling. But long story short this is the outcome.

Now after they replaced the whole sway bar. Bushings look good. But I noticed the end of the bar on the passenger side comes out farther from the bracket compared to the driver side. The driver side is a lot shorter. I'm just wondering if this should be something to be concerned about. I imagine on road driving doesn't move the sway bar too much. But what concerns me is off road driving once the suspension and sway bar starts moving and articulating a lot more. Any thoughts, or am I overthinking it and worrying too much?

 

[borfoo3]

Overthinking it..

If it rides good without clunks let it be

 

[nb rob]

That bushing is $8. I've replaced mine proactively, as well as the bushing on the fixed side, and the bushings where they mount to the LCAs.

I can't fathom why they would replace the entire swaybar.

I think you might be surprised how much the swaybar moves around in all directions. That gap may very well appear on the other side at some point.

No worries. As mentioned above, if it's quiet, no problem.

 

[TRDTommy]

Thanks for the replies. It puts my mind at ease now. I was also wondering why they had to replace the whole bar and I told them just to replace that bushing. But they insisted that the bushing and the whole sway bar had to be replaced. Which kinda ticked me off since I was without my truck for 4 days. Oh well. Its fixed and hopefully no issues. Now I can finally put my Kings on!

 

[JPK_NJ]

Bringing this back up to see how the fix is holding? I have 2019 ORP w KDSS and had the front side KDSS cylinder bushing replaced at 500 miles because the occasional knock sound (primarily when cold). It's going to dealer again now at 2500 miles with my replacement bushing torn exactly like yours in the first pic. Curious to see what they try replacing this time.

I've also been running C rate K02s (255 70 17) since day 1 and Im kind of thinking the stiffness is messing with the KDSS somehow. Making it take extra force it wasn't designed for maybe?

 

[honda250xtitan]

I've also been running C rate K02s (255 70 17) since day 1 and Im kind of thinking the stiffness is messing with the KDSS somehow. Making it take extra force it wasn't designed for maybe?

No.:typing::typing:

 

[JPK_NJ]

Well chalk me up as another 19' KDSS issue. Since my initial dealer fix didn't work, driver side bushing replaced at 500M, they're now planning on full sway bar/bushings/end link replacements.

2500 miles on truck but have had C Rated BFG K02 tires since day 1. Something about it just makes think stiffer tires are causing extra force/stress on the suspension components that were engineered with the give/flex of P rated rubber.

Hoping other member with KDSS problems can chime in and indicate what tires they're running. I might go back to P rated tires when my truck is hopefully fixed on Thursday.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Well chalk me up as another 19' KDSS issue. Since my initial dealer fix didn't work, driver side bushing replaced at 500M, they're now planning on full sway bar/bushings/end link replacements.

2500 miles on truck but have had C Rated BFG K02 tires since day 1. Something about it just makes think stiffer tires are causing extra force/stress on the suspension components that were engineered with the give/flex of P rated rubber.

Hoping other member with KDSS problems can chime in and indicate what tires they're running. I might go back to P rated tires when my truck is hopefully fixed on Thursday.

E rated tires on 2.5" lift zero issues other than occasional squeak from the bushings where it bolts to the LCA...makes sense as they're at an angle they weren't designed for.

 

[Jetboy]

It's definitely not tire related. I'm pretty sure I've put a lot more stress on my end links than you'd get from just having a stiffer tire. I've taken mine out jumping in the desert. Rock crawling. Etc. I've even bent the rear fixed link by dropping it onto a big rock. Bushings are still good at 50k. The only think I've noticed is that the metal straps that are supposed to help hold the bushings on have come off. But other than that - no issues. The folks who are running 20" wheels with lower profile tires have harsher ride than putting on E rated 17" tires. So for example all of the GX's will have firmer tire/wheel combos than an E rated 265/70/17.

 

[JPK_NJ]

Thanks for the reply. Puzzling that I've had these KDSS issues at 2500 miles and the only change from day 1 was going with a different size tire than stock. Jumping up to 255/75 C Rated K02 instead of 265/70. I had a 2016 Trail (always stock tire size) for 3yrs before "upgrading" to this 2019 w KDSS and never had any suspension / balance problems at all. Super frustrating

 

[sabom_matt]

KDSS cylinder failure

Have had an Icon stage 2 lift for ~2 years with ~15k miles on them, with a few moderately difficult off road trips. Recently developed a clunk front drivers side. Diagnosed as the KDSS hydraulic cylinder. Vehicle is currently at Glendale Toyota in Los Angeles area. Dealer won't cover under warranty.
The service manager defers to the "field tech specialist", who just consults over the phone and decides to deny warranty.
I then created a case with Toyota Customer Experience, and they have also allowed that decision to stand.

My 4runner is currently in their shop with a dismantled KDSS system, and the hydraulic cylinder unit (only comes as a unit with lines) costs $2046!! And they want to charge $2000 on top of that for diagnosis and then installation. I could almost get an Icon stage 7 for that amount!!

I am almost furious enough to get a lawyer involved, but not sure that will be worth my time and additional costs.

From reading through a couple other warranty threads, it would seem the burden of proof would be on Toyota to make the case that my Icon lift CAUSED the KDSS failure, and they have not done that, nor do I believe they would be able to do so.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

[STX4Runner]

A lawyer would almost certainly cost more than you repair bill you've noted. A lawyer is going to charge $500 to $1,000 minimum to even open a file and submit some sort of demand letter and it's gonna go up from there. I think Toyota would have a pretty good case to state your lift affected KDSS somehow. I know tons of us have lifts with no problems with KDSS, but you deliberately changed the suspension from stock and KDSS is a pretty big part of the suspension system. They'll say you modified it outside of its designed parameters.

 

[mteolus]

It's definitely not tire related. I'm pretty sure I've put a lot more stress on my end links than you'd get from just having a stiffer tire. I've taken mine out jumping in the desert. Rock crawling. Etc. I've even bent the rear fixed link by dropping it onto a big rock. Bushings are still good at 50k. The only think I've noticed is that the metal straps that are supposed to help hold the bushings on have come off. But other than that - no issues. The folks who are running 20" wheels with lower profile tires have harsher ride than putting on E rated 17" tires. So for example all of the GX's will have firmer tire/wheel combos than an E rated 265/70/17.

Same here on the metal strap.

Regarding those in the Gulf States where Toyota doesn't stock KDSS (you have to order one if you want one) you may be better going to a Lexus dealership since GX's all have KDSS and mechanics should know how to work on them.

 

[sabom_matt]

I suppose I am still in denial about the cost on this. If it were only $1k I wouldn't think twice, but $4k seems outrageous to me, especially for a Toyota. I think I will try negotiating with the dealership that I actually bought the vehicle from to see if they could cut me a break, or maybe price out a non-dealership mechanic.

It's also frustrating that I see no evidence of anyone else having this failure of their hydraulic cylinder on this forum. Makes me think it really is a manufacturing default.

 

[Jivewalker]

I suppose I am still in denial about the cost on this. If it were only $1k I wouldn't think twice, but $4k seems outrageous to me, especially for a Toyota. I think I will try negotiating with the dealership that I actually bought the vehicle from to see if they could cut me a break, or maybe price out a non-dealership mechanic.

It's also frustrating that I see no evidence of anyone else having this failure of their hydraulic cylinder on this forum. Makes me think it really is a manufacturing default.

Are they 100% sure cylinder is the problem? When my bushings wore out I developed a clunk. Replaced bushings and clunk gone.

 

[northcoast]

Have had an Icon stage 2 lift for ~2 years with ~15k miles on them, with a few moderately difficult off road trips. Recently developed a clunk front drivers side. Diagnosed as the KDSS hydraulic cylinder. Vehicle is currently at Glendale Toyota in Los Angeles area. Dealer won't cover under warranty.
The service manager defers to the "field tech specialist", who just consults over the phone and decides to deny warranty.
I then created a case with Toyota Customer Experience, and they have also allowed that decision to stand.

My 4runner is currently in their shop with a dismantled KDSS system, and the hydraulic cylinder unit (only comes as a unit with lines) costs $2046!! And they want to charge $2000 on top of that for diagnosis and then installation. I could almost get an Icon stage 7 for that amount!!

I am almost furious enough to get a lawyer involved, but not sure that will be worth my time and additional costs.

From reading through a couple other warranty threads, it would seem the burden of proof would be on Toyota to make the case that my Icon lift CAUSED the KDSS failure, and they have not done that, nor do I believe they would be able to do so.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

I clunked about 20k miles after my lift was installed. Just replace the KDSS sway bar bushings first. See if that helps... It was $125-ish for me (parts are minimal, dinged on the labor but they have to strap the system back and it's a PITA). The geometry has changed with the lift, so there's probably a harsher wear to those bushings now.

Mine is good to go after ~10k miles after the repair and about 116k miles on the truck.

And post a picture of the bushings as they currently sit!

 

[northcoast]

Are they 100% sure cylinder is the problem? When my bushings wore out I developed a clunk. Replaced bushings and clunk gone.

^^^ This this this. Start out small!

 

[sabom_matt]

Are they 100% sure cylinder is the problem? When my bushings wore out I developed a clunk. Replaced bushings and clunk gone.

I haven't gone back to take a look myself, but the mechanic said he was 100% sure. I talked them into a 15% discount on the total, but still a bit disappointed in this situation.

I need to read more about the mechanics of the hydraulic cylinder to see if it even makes sense that the 2" lift would significantly effect its function.

 

[sabom_matt]

I clunked about 20k miles after my lift was installed. Just replace the KDSS sway bar bushings first. See if that helps... It was $125-ish for me (parts are minimal, dinged on the labor but they have to strap the system back and it's a PITA). The geometry has changed with the lift, so there's probably a harsher wear to those bushings now.

Mine is good to go after ~10k miles after the repair and about 116k miles on the truck.

And post a picture of the bushings as they currently sit!

Will take some pics tomorrow when I get back to the dealership. I can see how the bushings would be more likely to wear out with the lift, but have a harder time seeing how the hydraulic cylinder would be affected by the change in geometry.

I appreciate the response!

 

[northcoast]

Will take some pics tomorrow when I get back to the dealership. I can see how the bushings would be more likely to wear out with the lift, but have a harder time seeing how the hydraulic cylinder would be affected by the change in geometry.

I appreciate the response!

Are you sure the cylinder actually has a problem or was that the dealer just throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck? I just ask because I don't think there are a bunch of threads about KDSS cylinders failing. At least I don't think there are...