Vulgarian
New member
I'll take try to take some pictures this weekend. My lean varies from almost an inch to an 1/8" of an inch in the same day.
KDSS / Mod Hell - Rant!
- Thread starter Vulgarian
- Start date
I'll take try to take some pictures this weekend. My lean varies from almost an inch to an 1/8" of an inch in the same day.
STX4Runner
New member
Couldn't agree more. No one off roads with KDSS. :lmao:
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MountainClimber78
New member
This
Over 100,000 miles on my lifted KDSS 2011 and zero issues with it. Oh, and numerous Colorado passes, back roads, and east coast trails thrown in.
To the OP: did you install the lift yourself? Reason I ask is because I've heard of people bleeding off fluid from the system in order to install a lift. It's supposed to be a sealed system and there is no reason to do this. If fluid was bled off I bet that's the source of your issues.
Over 100,000 miles on my lifted KDSS 2011 and zero issues with it. Oh, and numerous Colorado passes, back roads, and east coast trails thrown in.
To the OP: did you install the lift yourself? Reason I ask is because I've heard of people bleeding off fluid from the system in order to install a lift. It's supposed to be a sealed system and there is no reason to do this. If fluid was bled off I bet that's the source of your issues.
Sam1Am
New member
See, a non-kdss would be level there.
Jeremy556
New member
AKA, normal. Go take a tape measure around to trucks and SUVs in any dealership.
jrandom
New member
lifted, 12.5k winch + mount, 100' of 3/8's wire rope, 78#s of PC2150 AGM, easily have 150+ pounds over the front, no lean what-so-ever, maybe its because I did everything myself and took my time instead of bringing it to some shop where nobody cares about your truck as much as you...
You get out what you put in to it... and that isn't always about money.
BTW almost trucks lean kdss or not, toyota, nissan, rover, ford, chevy, I think way to many people are just too f'n anal about it.
You get out what you put in to it... and that isn't always about money.
BTW almost trucks lean kdss or not, toyota, nissan, rover, ford, chevy, I think way to many people are just too f'n anal about it.
TEujunga
New member
I vote with those saying a 1" lean on a lifted truck is not unusual across all brands and suspensions. When I read the original post, I was thinking it had to be at least 3-4" to cause this much angst. It's certainly not enough to cause a significant tire wear issue.
My TE with KDSS was initially about 1/2 inch higher on the driver's side, but I would never have noticed it unless I measured it. When I installed my Toytec Ultimate coilovers, I just set the driver's side coilover about two turns (~1/8") lower than the passenger side. Problem solved.
It's never going to be an exact science in any case.
My TE with KDSS was initially about 1/2 inch higher on the driver's side, but I would never have noticed it unless I measured it. When I installed my Toytec Ultimate coilovers, I just set the driver's side coilover about two turns (~1/8") lower than the passenger side. Problem solved.
It's never going to be an exact science in any case.
SacStateHornets
New member
My 2015 Willy's was completely trouble free. No issues with Jeep reliability for me.
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Vinsil
New member
Was? How many miles, mods, etc did you have? I have had Jeeps. They are are not Toyota by any means but your sample of a '15 that you don't own is not a good example.
It's like me bragging about my '16 Runner with 10k mils on it, lifted, modded and with KDSS and no issues. :thumb:
Quite a few ignorant comments in this thread. Hopefully cooler heads prevail. I don't have KDSS and specifically bought without it because I didn't want to deal with any issues at all. I like KISS and I'm lazy. That said, the OP has a problem with the lean after he installed a lift. It doesn't matter how much of a lean, if he doesn't like it he has a right to complain and try to find a solution here without getting a bunch of bullshit posts about how KDSS "sucks" or whatever. Just saying, if you don't have any help for him, why post garbage and rub salt in the wound?:AK47:
To the OP, hope you find a solution and hope it doesn't come to selling your 4Runner.
To the OP, hope you find a solution and hope it doesn't come to selling your 4Runner.
As a former owner of a 2012 JKU Rubicon, the real fun doesn't start until you're pushing up over 75K miles I'd say...
Ordered a mix of OME shocks/struts/springs to support my mods (roof top tent, camp gear, winch) and ordered the OME spacer/adapter for KDSS. There's a lot out there about lifting a vehicle with KDSS suspension properly and equal amounts of information about shops unfamiliar with KDSS creating problems due to their inexperience with the system.
I hope you're able to get it figured out, KDSS is a system that's been around for a while with proven off road capability, I hope you get back to enjoying your truck soon.
I hope you're able to get it figured out, KDSS is a system that's been around for a while with proven off road capability, I hope you get back to enjoying your truck soon.
Throwback
New member
For what it's worth I had a bone stock '14 with KDSS that had a 7/8" lean when parked on a perfectly level poured garage concrete slab. I actually had people who followed me somewhere for work or whatever comment on it.
Toyota's tolerance for the lean is 0.787", and whenever my dealer took it back to look at it they always claimed it "officially" measured right at that number so they couldn't do anything about it. I am pretty nit-picky with my things so I couldn't accept the bandaid fix of stuffing a spacer on the low side or anything like that. Maybe on a 2000 model or something, but not a nearly new vehicle.
On one of those service trips I notice a mag gray 14 without KDSS and half the mileage so I swung a deal to trade vehicles while giving them $1500. It was worth it for me to get away from a strange suspension system that nobody seemed to want to try to work on.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a true fix out there, and it doesn't seem that anyone truly understands how the system works. I would say your options are:
1) Accept it for what it is.
2) Strip your accessories and find another 4Runner to trade for.
3) Remove the KDSS and run LT suspension without sway bars. There is at least one member here who has done this and it seems to work great. If you're going to keep down the path of big suspension mods this may be the best route.
Question - By cranking up your coil overs on the low side you are adding significant preload to basically fight the tension of the sway bar induced by the opposing side KDSS piston. Does that not result in a horribly rough ride? It seems that you eventually have all your suspension components under extreme pressure just fighting each other at a static position.
Here's the sheet the dealer gave me when they said they weren't able to help.
Toyota's tolerance for the lean is 0.787", and whenever my dealer took it back to look at it they always claimed it "officially" measured right at that number so they couldn't do anything about it. I am pretty nit-picky with my things so I couldn't accept the bandaid fix of stuffing a spacer on the low side or anything like that. Maybe on a 2000 model or something, but not a nearly new vehicle.
On one of those service trips I notice a mag gray 14 without KDSS and half the mileage so I swung a deal to trade vehicles while giving them $1500. It was worth it for me to get away from a strange suspension system that nobody seemed to want to try to work on.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a true fix out there, and it doesn't seem that anyone truly understands how the system works. I would say your options are:
1) Accept it for what it is.
2) Strip your accessories and find another 4Runner to trade for.
3) Remove the KDSS and run LT suspension without sway bars. There is at least one member here who has done this and it seems to work great. If you're going to keep down the path of big suspension mods this may be the best route.
Question - By cranking up your coil overs on the low side you are adding significant preload to basically fight the tension of the sway bar induced by the opposing side KDSS piston. Does that not result in a horribly rough ride? It seems that you eventually have all your suspension components under extreme pressure just fighting each other at a static position.
Here's the sheet the dealer gave me when they said they weren't able to help.
SacStateHornets
New member
I traded my '14 4Runner, no problems, for a Willy's, mid-life crisis. Willy had 14 miles when I bought it, had 37,000 when I traded for a '17 4Runner. Lack of safety features required me to trade again as I have two young kids now. It had so many miles as I loved driving it.
So in 37,000 miles the Willy's was bulletproof. It was completely unmodded, which is why it worked flawlessly. Once you start modding a vehicle, reliability issues arise.
Don't believe CR, my example was extremely positive and my Jeep dealer was awesome.
Plus it was built like a tank, which was its color, as I hit two deer in it and didn't even dent the bumper. Hit a deer in a 4Runner and you are looking at $$$$.
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This^^^. It all depends on your use cases for the truck. If putting on a 5" lift is your thing, then KDSS might not be a good option. On the other hand I only wanted to lift slightly and, more importantly, I knew I would have a RTT etc on the top of the truck and KDSS really helps with managing the higher CG. We just completed a 7k mile overland trip and everything suspension wise performed flawlessly.
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philsey
New member
Vulgarian
New member
Thanks, I'm finding a lot of people don't have the issues I have, at least to the degree that I have them. That alone gives me some confidence. I'm looking at that adapter you've mentioned. It seems what others have used successfully. Thanks!
Thanks, I'll figure it out one way or the other.
- Hahaha
e60ral
Banned
it's also in land cruisers and prados, both of those (in addition to a 4runner trail) are very popular vehicles to use off-road. it does provide better on-road performance but also allows for more articulation off-road (on the prado it provides about 4" additional articulation for example)
Vulgarian
New member
You all may be right in regards to what is "normal" and I may need to lower my expectations - again. Naturally the 1/8" doesn't bother me - nor does 1/2". However, when I walk out to a level parking lot, approach my rig from the left rear and then walk around to inspect what has to be a flat tire on the right front to find it's only an exaggerated lean - that's disconcerting from a technical point of view and retarded looking from an aesthetic perspective.
