KDSS or No?

[Grape Ape]

This thread is more evidence that KDSS is something like a placebo pill, if they tell you its better and different you believe it unless you really put yourself in circumstances that actually let you notice why it's there.

I had one of the first TEs in 2010 with KDSS, I had no reference to whether or not it was better for on road or off road or whatever, I just had it. I lifted the truck and had no issues whatsoever with the install or after. I find it funny that ppl are going out and checking their trucks now to see if they actually have it or not and most don't even know what it is really.

That said, I got rid of that vehicle a couple years ago and just recently bought an '18 TRDP...this truck rides so much better than the KDSS ever did, stock or not.

 

[DreamsOfDirt]

Grape Ape provides some good comparison / background.

I'll provide the opposite - nooby opinion:

I picked up my 2018 TRDORP today with KDSS. I had previously test driven a 2017 without KDSS and I feel like the difference is noticeable/positive. In my lengthy (five hours) of owning the vehicle I put it through a gauntlet of suburban parking lots and S curve roads. Very little body roll.

I like it. Is it worth it? That depends on you.

 

[nb rob]

It's a pretty obvious difference. Especially if you swerve around something at highway speed.

 

[chaosrob]

one of the reasons I picked the '18 trdp. The ride was so much nicer than the others (did not try the limited as I didn't have interest) that it was an easy pick

This thread is more evidence that KDSS is something like a placebo pill, if they tell you its better and different you believe it unless you really put yourself in circumstances that actually let you notice why it's there.

I had one of the first TEs in 2010 with KDSS, I had no reference to whether or not it was better for on road or off road or whatever, I just had it. I lifted the truck and had no issues whatsoever with the install or after. I find it funny that ppl are going out and checking their trucks now to see if they actually have it or not and most don't even know what it is really.

That said, I got rid of that vehicle a couple years ago and just recently bought an '18 TRDP...this truck rides so much better than the KDSS ever did, stock or not.

 

[e60ral]

This thread is more evidence that KDSS is something like a placebo pill, if they tell you its better and different you believe it unless you really put yourself in circumstances that actually let you notice why it's there.

I had one of the first TEs in 2010 with KDSS, I had no reference to whether or not it was better for on road or off road or whatever, I just had it. I lifted the truck and had no issues whatsoever with the install or after. I find it funny that ppl are going out and checking their trucks now to see if they actually have it or not and most don't even know what it is really.

That said, I got rid of that vehicle a couple years ago and just recently bought an '18 TRDP...this truck rides so much better than the KDSS ever did, stock or not.

If you difference in handling with KDSS you're not qualified to ever give feedback on handling for any car ever

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[b407driver]

This thread is more evidence that KDSS is something like a placebo pill, if they tell you its better and different you believe it unless you really put yourself in circumstances that actually let you notice why it's there.

I had one of the first TEs in 2010 with KDSS, I had no reference to whether or not it was better for on road or off road or whatever, I just had it. I lifted the truck and had no issues whatsoever with the install or after. I find it funny that ppl are going out and checking their trucks now to see if they actually have it or not and most don't even know what it is really.

That said, I got rid of that vehicle a couple years ago and just recently bought an '18 TRDP...this truck rides so much better than the KDSS ever did, stock or not.

Maybe you actually didn't have KDSS... lol

But seriously, could be apples and oranges, e.g. perhaps it's the TRD suspension you are liking (certainly no surprise compared to the crap-soft stock SR5/Trail shocks).

...this truck rides so much better than the KDSS ever did, stock or not.

Also, for the perspective of those asking the question(s), perhaps you should elaborate a bit on exactly how they were different rides, and what shocks you used for your lift?

 

[TRDORmike]

I have a 17 TRD Off Road with KDSS as the Canadian model comes with it standard and you cannot have a off road without it.

I did drive an 17 SR5 and stock to stock the SR5 was a bit softer but had a lot more body dive and sway in turns. I drive my TRD all the time on back roads going 70-80kmph and it just sticks to the road with little to no body roll. As in significantly less than any other SUV I have driven this size/style.

I had to get the KDSS because I wanted the TRD goodies/rear locker etc that all come standard instead of SR5 without any of those. The way this thing takes corners/highway turns/back rods I would option it in if I could and had to do it all over again. Great system.

Everyone is hung up on the cost... from my research you will be looking at roughly $2-3000 for the system to basically be fully replaced (worst case scenario). In the grand scheme of things IF this does happen maybe once in its life so what? For the lack of body lean both stock and lifted to me it is worth it. It does it’s job and really with the costs of larger mods for these at trucks the price isn’t outrageous. Again, IF in the first place the system even fails.

-Mike

 

[TRDORmike]

This thread is more evidence that KDSS is something like a placebo pill, if they tell you its better and different you believe it unless you really put yourself in circumstances that actually let you notice why it's there.

I had one of the first TEs in 2010 with KDSS, I had no reference to whether or not it was better for on road or off road or whatever, I just had it. I lifted the truck and had no issues whatsoever with the install or after. I find it funny that ppl are going out and checking their trucks now to see if they actually have it or not and most don't even know what it is really.

That said, I got rid of that vehicle a couple years ago and just recently bought an '18 TRDP...this truck rides so much better than the KDSS ever did, stock or not.

..What? You don’t call something a “placebo pill” when you obviously have no real comparison as your last 4Runner you “just had” seems to be a foggy memory. Not a KDSS fanboy just the comment is irrelevant and untrue as there is a real difference between how they ride for the people interested reading this thread.

 

[manganos]

A couple of days ago my wife said oh look there is another trail! (Was actually a TRD OR but I'm just happy my wife notices!) and I said look that is why I didn't get KDSS. Either it had the KDSS lean going on or there was a 800 pound woman in the vehicle.

 

[johnbt]

Dang it. I've had mine for one week short of 12 months and I still haven't remembered to look and see if it's leaning. Oh well. I'd buy another one with KDSS without a second thought. I like the handling that much. Rides really well on the beach, too.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[bamma]

In my experience, the KDSS lean is correctable, at least with the Land Cruiser. Took about 15 minutes, a jack, boards and a hex wrench. I would take the benefits of KDSS any day.

 

[NuclearN8]

Our next 4Runner will have KDSS for the following reasons:

1) The Toyota Flagship, LC200 has it. Even if implemented slightly different on the 4Runner, all that trickle down R&D tech at half the price is a tremendous value on the 4Runner.

2) Functionally it suits our needs. Our 4Runner is s shared vehicle. 95% of the time my wife drives it onroad (so the KDSS makes the 4Runner drive more like a unibody on pavement, which she likes). The 5% we drive offroad on the weekends, I like the piece of mind of having it available at slow speeds in 4WD.

3)I like it better than XREAS which is available on the Limited models. We owned a Limited with XREAS and while the drive on-road is similiar (XREAS is probably a little better imo), offroad there really is no comparison...KDSS is the best of both worlds, while XREAS is the best for on-road use only.

4) Combine KDSS, Crawl, and locking rear diff on the TRDORP and I have a hard time imagining a situation where we would get stuck for the sort of offroading we enjoy.

 

[progress4m]

To OP:

Just as another humble opinion: more than a year ago, I have done a lot of test drives of 5th gen 4runners while thinking about going from 4th to 5th generation and all of them were without KDSS, that included week long loaner -2016 TEP- and it was during that week when I have made up my mind: not to purchase 5th gen 4runner and wait until 6th gen… (Note: at that point I had 2005 V8 4x4)- the final push in making that decision was the “on road” driving characteristics of 2016 TEP (week long loaner) … the body roll\lean\sway was much worse than my 2005 with 130k that had original and lifted suspension… it was especially noticeable when I towed small (2.5K) single axle utility trailer for about 160 miles, that 2016 TEP just could never “settle” on the highway… that 160 miles drive was just too busy and unpleasant for my taste…

That all changed when I had an opportunity to drive 2013 TE with KDSS that “pop-up” at the dealer… it was like driving totally different SUV- it felt great-very stable and enjoyable to drive! And the fact that I have a slight advantage with KDSS “off road” is always a plus.

I now have owned that 2013 TE with KDSS for over a year and absolutely enjoy the truck and ride quality on any given day regardless of the type of the road or situation.

 

[DeepSea]

A couple of days ago my wife said oh look there is another trail! (Was actually a TRD OR but I'm just happy my wife notices!) and I said look that is why I didn't get KDSS. Either it had the KDSS lean going on or there was a 800 pound woman in the vehicle.

In my experience, the KDSS lean is correctable, at least with the Land Cruiser. Took about 15 minutes, a jack, boards and a hex wrench. I would take the benefits of KDSS any day.

I still don't how people see or find the notorious "KDSS lean"? Mine doesn't have it and never did whether in its original stock form or after lifting. Here in Hawaii, all of the Trails/TRDOR come standard with KDSS so that is a lot of them to see. How could KDSS cause any lean when it's a hydraulic sway bar system that isn't directly attached to the height part of the suspension (shocks/coils/spindle)?

Anyone have photo proof and/or measurements to backup this fable?

 

[e60ral]

plenty of threads where measurements have been posted, it's real. you can reset it temporarily with the calibration, backing out the plug seems to last longer, or you can get spacers or something.

If i get the lean i'll just use it as an excuse to get adjustable coilovers

 

[4RUSH2112]

Yet another KDSS lean thread...

The above thread came to my mind when I read your post. As I recall, my minor lean was within Toyota's margin of error, and was only noticeable when I took measurements.

 

[Industrialwrench]

KDSS is fantastic, I am only surprised It hasn’t worked it’s way into the aftermarket, for all the lifts? If you lift wouldn’t you want an extended travel on the system?

 

[I4CUTigers]

KDSS doesn’t lean... the earth is just crooked. :cheers:

But seriously, I have it. And I can tell a pretty big difference. As far as a lift, the Exp Overland guys have 2 KDSS equipped 2015 TEP with 3 inch icon lifts. The drove one of them through Central and South America without issue.

Why would you need more than that (3inch lift) At a certain point you are either going to damage your drivetrain or have so much money in it to compensate for the drivetrain, that you could have just bought a spare truck that you can destroy as opposed to you 40k 4Runner. Or you can just modify your approach/departure angles by replacing the bumpers.

 

[nb rob]

I still don't how people see or find the notorious "KDSS lean"? Mine doesn't have it and never did whether in its original stock form or after lifting. Here in Hawaii, all of the Trails/TRDOR come standard with KDSS so that is a lot of them to see. How could KDSS cause any lean when it's a hydraulic sway bar system that isn't directly attached to the height part of the suspension (shocks/coils/spindle)?

Anyone have photo proof and/or measurements to backup this fable?

I don't have the lean either, but I do have adjustable coilovers, and I'm not crazy enough to take a tape measure around my vehicles. I have enough real world problems to occupy my mind.

The lean occurs because one side of the swaybars is adjustable via the piston, and the other side is fixed with a dogbone. When you raise the height of the body versus the LCA, the swaybars rotate downward. The fixed side is less flexible in this regard, and the swaybar will relocate itself slightly with respect to the bushings on the LCA. I am expecting that in the closed system, all things being equal, both pistons would not increase their length, or position of equilibrium, without a calibration/bleeding proceedure being performed--- but I am not a hydraulic engineer, and the only hydraulic engineer I know uses his powers for salmon fishing.

Lifting definitely wears the bushings faster, but they are very cheap, and easy to replace if you do one side at a time with the vehicle on the ground.