KDSS vs Good Aftermarket Suspension

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yellowdog

New member
Hello everyone,
I like so many others ask the question of KDSS vs upgraded aftermarket suspension. I have searched the KDSS vs. non-KDSS threads here and I found a thread (Listed below) with some good information but it can get a bit overwhelming to a newbie such as myself.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/232072-trd-pro-bilstein-suspension-trd-off-road-kdss.html


I would like to boil it down very simply to: will a good aftermarket suspension reduce the amount of body roll and nose dive under breaking as KDSS does? And, give a nice (not too stiff) road ride?

If there are other threads that cover this please share, I have searched (KDSS vs. TRD Pro Suspension non-KDSS) and have not found anything else, which seems on the contrary as many replies indicate that there are more threads that cover this.

Thanks,

Doug
 
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Your not comparing apples to apples here. In the grand scheme of things springs and dampeners are not supposed to control body roll, they do have a small effect but that is the sole job of the sway bar.


Generally speaking the thought is KDSS is fine for stock height or small lifts, if you want a 3” lift pass on the KDSS.
 
An active suspension system and a lift designed to give you travel and smooth things over off road are completely different things.
 
Kdss gives a much better street drive. It feels like a car when going onto on ramps and sweeping turns. It’s unbelievable how composed it is

Off road the big sway bar over rocks are a tad harsh when at speed. I haven’t been in one without but my previous car without the big sways was more compliant
 
I own a trail edition with kdss ... I wish I didn't have it because; if your like me with MAJOR OCD. The KDSS dreaded lean will kill you....
 
KDSS doesn't really affect straight line nose dive. It has an effect on lateral, side to side movement. On the road it has less body roll on turns, sweeping corners, etc. Very nice on highways for sure. From what I gather TRD Pro suspension may give a "nicer" (softer, more bump absorbing) ride due to the shocks that are great for being smooth off road. However, the TRD Pro will have more body roll and sway in turns.

I find KDSS great on road with surprisingly good handling on road (when not on the spongy winter tires I have on currently!) and great off road too. I'm glad I have it.
 
As others have stated. KDSS is a sway bar system not really the same as the rest of the suspension. Swaybars impact dynamic spring rate across the axle.

It affects the handling, directly and only the ride on uneven terrain where each wheel sees a different elevation (not typical on the road, unless you consider pot holes)

Pros of KDSS
- drives more like a sports car on the road
- Loosens up the swaybar at low speeds and allows for better articulation in crawl conditions below 12mph

Cons of KDSS
- Stiff at speed offroad where each wheel across the axle is trying to follow uneven terrain
- Sort of pain to work around when lifting or working on suspension
- Potential long term cost of ownership on an older truck


If you had to choose between a good aftermarket suspension and KDSS... The aftermarket suspension would be more pleasing overall to most people, but it would still depend on how you drive the truck. Pushing speeds into corners like a sports car.. KDSS will always be better. Going at speed offroad... Non-KDSS will always be better. Just depends on your priorities.
 
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yellowdog said:
...

I would like to boil it down very simply to: will a good aftermarket suspension reduce the amount of body roll and nose dive under breaking as KDSS does? And, give a nice (not too stiff) road ride?

....
Click to expand...

As a simple (short) answer: no.

Good aftermarket suspension will change (for a lot of people will improve) the ride-mostly because of more firm and controlled ride, but it will not act the same as an KDSS being an active system: using thick sway bar to control the body lean\sway and removing “jitter” (making the ride very smooth) on the highway (road)- and effectively “removing” that thick sway bar - increasing effectiveness of the suspension travel for off-road use- no aftermarket suspension will be able to give you that.

As other have mentioned, you really cannot compare an active vs. passive (preset by shocks and springs specs) suspension systems.
 
wfo9 said:
As others have stated. KDSS is a sway bar system not really the same as the rest of the suspension. Swaybars impact dynamic spring rate across the axle.

It affects the handling, directly and only the ride on uneven terrain where each wheel sees a different elevation (not typical on the road, unless you consider pot holes)

Pros of KDSS
- drives more like a sports car on the road
- Loosens up the swaybar at low speeds and allows for better articulation in crawl conditions below 12mph

Cons of KDSS
- Stiff at speed offroad where each wheel across the axle is trying to follow uneven terrain
- Sort of pain to work around when lifting or working on suspension
- Potential long term cost of ownership on an older truck


If you had to choose between a good aftermarket suspension and KDSS... The aftermarket suspension would be more pleasing overall to most people, but it would still depend on how you drive the truck. Pushing speeds into corners like a sports car.. KDSS will always be better. Going at speed offroad... Non-KDSS will always be better. Just depends on your priorities.
Click to expand...



^^^^This. Read again. Then read again.

As everyone has stated.... two different results. KDSS better for “turn” handling (which most people would refer to as on-road handling)... After-market suspension will help (most) in off-road handling.

But yes, there’s also the dreaded KDSS “lean” that drives people insane. Which is funny; most people in my life would say I’m the most OCD person they know... and I don’t give two-craps about the lean. Could just be my age tho... lol.

KDSS ride can be a bit firm; so keep that in mind. If you drive the Runner like a true SUV, and not like a sports car... I’d recommend getting the aftermarket suspension. Just my 2 cents tho. (And this coming from a guy who likes having KDSS.... but it would take me an entire page to explain why it suits me better.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agent_Outside said:
Generally speaking the thought is KDSS is fine for stock height or small lifts, if you want a 3+” lift pass on the KDSS.
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you :)

Lots of KDSS trucks here running up to 3” lifts with no issues. A more correct answer would be “if you want to heavily modify your suspension, pass on KDSS” ie if you want go with extended or long travel, etc.
 
don't worry too much about the kdss lean, it only impacts a small percentage and you could always just get adjustable coilovers to level if you need
 
Offroad premium with kdss here and a 3" lift. My suggestion is test drive one with, and one without, on road first if you can. The on road difference was obvious to me and most passengers who ride in my truck who own 4runners themselves immediately notice the difference as well.

Lifting wasn't an issue for an experienced shop that has worked on plenty of kdss trucks. But as someone who was looking for a long time before I bought, its amazing how much bad information I got about installing lifts with the kdss system. Most of that bad info is from lack of experience as KDSS isn't popular in my region of the country. My suggestion is find a local mechanic with actual experience working on kdss trucks. Ignore advice from anyone else, including dealerships, as many of those techs have little experience on kdss trucks as well. The Pros/Cons listed above are well spelled out. Anecdotally, the system has performed well offroad and I have nothing bad to say about it. So far it was a great choice. After several years of ownership we'll see if that changes. I've heard about issues with vibration/chatter at certain speeds over washboards, but I've never experienced that personally. Good luck with your search. And find someone local with real experience doing lifts with the system.
 
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boyguan said:
Kdss gives a much better street drive. It feels like a car when going onto on ramps and sweeping turns. It’s unbelievable how composed it is

Off road the big sway bar over rocks are a tad harsh when at speed. I haven’t been in one without but my previous car without the big sways was more compliant
Click to expand...

Lol...what kind of cars are you driving? I drove a T4R with KDSS before purchasing my Limited but neither of them drove like any care I've driven. The Limited rides significantly better on the road IMO even with the stock 20's but it's a turd compared to just about any car. There's a reason that almost everyone else ditched body on frame for SUVs and it's not because they ride too much like cars.
 
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Agent_Outside said:
Generally speaking the thought is KDSS is fine for stock height or small lifts, if you want a 3” lift pass on the KDSS.
Click to expand...

Who told you this? This is the BS people are spreading about KDSS. I have KDSS, a 3" lift, and am running 35" tires. No issues whatsoever. Stop spreading this bullshit about KDSS. I had no issues with suspension lifts of any kind.
 
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I’ll take a slightly firmer/“chattier” off road ride over a mega lean in corners on road any day. For me having a firmer sway bar via the KDSS system for the 4+ hours of road driving (and a lot of that on 2 lane mountain passes) to get to the off road destination is a really important factor. It all but eliminates lean in corners and makes the 4Runner really compliant. Off-road, it may make the ride firmer in some circumstances, but it also helps in cornering off-road at speed for the same reasons it does on-road and you still get “flex” at lower speeds where you’re more likely to articulate. It’s give and take, but ultimately it depends on what your intended use for the 4Runner is. That’s my two cents based on my experience.
 
Who was the person who put the switch in to turn off KDSS? I was thinking about doing that but can't remember who it was

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks!

It took some time to absorb... what I originally understood intellectually I got wrapped up in after test driving different models. I really like the road handling of the Limited, the best of everything. But after considering that I will put a suspension lift on that will negate that and end up with the Off-Road version.

Thank you to everyone who added to this thread. I have re-read all the posts several times and it "finally" sunk in after all the test drives of different vehicles. (I am weighing between the 4Runner and Tacoma. I am searching for the best ride for my photography business... transporting all the equipment that I need on various jobs or trips out west from VA to WY with camping gear). But you guys are fantastic and very generous.

Thank you!
 
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