KDSS vs Non-KDSS?

[progress4m]

...

... Anyone care to comment on how well their non-KDSS version does on the road?...

When it was a time for me to move from 4th Gen to 5th gen 4Runner, I had a perfect opportunity to drive 2016 Trail Premium (under 10K on the odometer) for a whole week.

I drove it work as DD, took it to my hunting land and puled light trailer with it. On the end of the week I knew I only had two options:
1) Finding the 2010-13 Trail (I am partial to that body style-from functionality and looks stand point) with KDSS.
2) Keeping my 4th gen 4Runner.

IMO: on the road the ride of the 2016 Trail was not acceptable and that was in comparison to 4th gen 4runer with small lift, stock shocks and 130K on the clock…

The amount of body roll on the low speed and instability on the highway was my main complaints.
Even puling the 2500 Lbs trailers added “unnecessary” busy drive -constant corrections was required- my drive was less than 100 miles one way and I was not happy camper…

On the first week owning my 2013 Trail with KDSS, I did identical drives (DD to work, pulled the same trailer going hunting, etc.): On the road feel was great, all issues I had with non KDSS truck were completely gone!

My suggestions would be test drive: KDSS and non-KDSS 4Runner and made YOUR decision based on that.

 

[varipa08]

KDSS vs Non-KDSS

Have had a new 4runner for about three weeks with KDSS. I find that on road the KDSS helps eliminate body roll going around turns/ exit ramps at higher speeds, haven't had too much experience off road with it yet. My buddy has a 5th gen non KDSS and I have driven it plenty I can definitely tell a difference. Take a exit ramp on both and you ll see. The KDSS actively works to eliminate body roll. Definitely recommend. I plan on lifting it as well but not for a year or so, will update if I have any problems, but couldn't see why I would.

 

[Engineer]

IMHO to many people think KDSS is an off road oriented system - I think it helps far more on the road by allow for such a massive sway bar yet you don't loose the articulation you normally would. So with KDSS you get the SAME, not more, wheel travel as a non KDSS model but the added benefit of a flatter cornering on the street. That's my understanding, but I have been wrong once before :caked:


Non KDSS = Good Wheel Travel
KDSS = Good Wheel Travel + Flatter Corners + potential for costly repairs and a couple additional steps when installing a lift. Both of which seem to be overblown/miss understood by many.
No Sway bars = Great Wheel travel + BODY ROLL (likely depends heavily on suspension tuning)
Long Travel = Excellent Wheel travel + BODY ROLL (likely depends heavily on suspension tuning)

If you have to ask if you should remove your sway bar, you shouldn't. If you have to ask if you need long travel, you don't. If you have to ask about KDSS you likely don't give a sh** and should have driven the 4hrs to the nearest dealer to test drive one with it to see if the handling characteristics were worth it to you

 

[MatraBlue]

IMHO to many people think KDSS is an off road oriented system - I think it helps far more on the road by allow for such a massive sway bar yet you don't loose the articulation you normally would. So with KDSS you get the SAME, not more, wheel travel as a non KDSS model but the added benefit of a flatter cornering on the street. That's my understanding, but I have been wrong once before :caked:


Non KDSS = Good Wheel Travel
KDSS = Good Wheel Travel + Flatter Corners + potential for costly repairs and a couple additional steps when installing a lift. Both of which seem to be overblown/miss understood by many.
No Sway bars = Great Wheel travel + BODY ROLL (likely depends heavily on suspension tuning)
Long Travel = Excellent Wheel travel + BODY ROLL (likely depends heavily on suspension tuning)

If you have to ask if you should remove your sway bar, you shouldn't. If you have to ask if you need long travel, you don't. If you have to ask about KDSS you likely don't give a sh** and should have driven the 4hrs to the nearest dealer to test drive one with it to see if the handling characteristics were worth it to you

So why do you suppose KDSS is only offered on the Trail/Off Road Model, supposedly the most off-road capable model??

Since sway bars are one of the more important safety devices installed on automobiles, and most everyone is of the opinion that KDSS is more of a street oriented upgrade, I wonder if Toyota could be held liable in situations where severe under steering contributed to an accident?

 

[sandcrawler]

So why do you suppose KDSS is only offered on the Trail/Off Road Model, supposedly the most off-road capable model??

also comes standard on the Land Cruiser... good review with and without here: Toyota Prado KDSS review

also...

 

[Lujess]

also comes standard on the Land Cruiser... good review with and without here: Toyota Prado KDSS review

also...

Thanks for posting that - very helpful

 

[e60ral]

IMHO to many people think KDSS is an off road oriented system - I think it helps far more on the road by allow for such a massive sway bar yet you don't loose the articulation you normally would. So with KDSS you get the SAME, not more, wheel travel as a non KDSS model but the added benefit of a flatter cornering on the street. That's my understanding, but I have been wrong once before :caked:


Non KDSS = Good Wheel Travel
KDSS = Good Wheel Travel + Flatter Corners + potential for costly repairs and a couple additional steps when installing a lift. Both of which seem to be overblown/miss understood by many.
No Sway bars = Great Wheel travel + BODY ROLL (likely depends heavily on suspension tuning)
Long Travel = Excellent Wheel travel + BODY ROLL (likely depends heavily on suspension tuning)

If you have to ask if you should remove your sway bar, you shouldn't. If you have to ask if you need long travel, you don't. If you have to ask about KDSS you likely don't give a sh** and should have driven the 4hrs to the nearest dealer to test drive one with it to see if the handling characteristics were worth it to you

the limits of wheel travel is technically the same, but you will have more usable articulation with KDSS because of the way it will push the sway bars in a cross-axle situation

 

[sandcrawler]

the limits of wheel travel is technically the same, but you will have more usable articulation with KDSS because of the way it will push the sway bars in a cross-axle situation

:bravo:

 

[Engineer]

the limits of wheel travel is technically the same, but you will have more usable articulation with KDSS because of the way it will push the sway bars in a cross-axle situation

Is that something that would show on a RTI ramp? (obviously things like suspension, tires, inflation need to remain the same)

 

[e60ral]

Is that something that would show on a RTI ramp? (obviously things like suspension, tires, inflation need to remain the same)

yes, i don't know if anyone has compared the 4Runner but the Lexus GX470 had a 519 RTI score with KDSS compared to 428 without KDSS

 

[Jetboy]

Is that something that would show on a RTI ramp? (obviously things like suspension, tires, inflation need to remain the same)

Yes and no. It does show up in a higher score, but only slightly from what I've seen. My guess is you'd get about 10% improvement in an RTI score. Where it really shows up - but you don't measure on the RTI ramp - is stability. Put both vehicles on the RTI ramp at the same limit and go push on the side of each one and feel how tippy it is. The stability at the limit of flex will be markedly different. The KDSS one will be very stable at full flex. The non-KDSS version will not be. If you drive both back to back through moguls/rocks/etc. it's becomes more obvious that the body stability is significantly improved with KDSS acting to apply more balance load to each wheel.

 

[Signess]

One thing I read after I purchased my ORP with kdss is that kdss equipped vehicles have lower ground clearance. Is this true? Clearly not advertised by Toyota. My manual still says 9.6”.
Is the only difference in ground clearance a lower skid plate at the front only, to accommodate the kdss pistons? I measured mine last night and at that point I measure 9” even. Not a huge difference, especially considerekng the wheel hubs are around 8” or so , and that’s for both kdss and non (doesn’t change).

 

[e60ral]

One thing I read after I purchased my ORP with kdss is that kdss equipped vehicles have lower ground clearance. Is this true? Clearly not advertised by Toyota. My manual still says 9.6”.
Is the only difference in ground clearance a lower skid plate at the front only, to accommodate the kdss pistons? I measured mine last night and at that point I measure 9” even. Not a huge difference, especially considerekng the wheel hubs are around 8” or so , and that’s for both kdss and non (doesn’t change).

yeah, the skid in the front is lower (a lot of space between the sway bar and skid because of how it moves) and where the sway bar mounts is different and lower and not ideal location for very technical stuff but not much of a liability for other offroading. you'll bang the front skid a lot on even mild stuff without a lift (IMO they should have raised the front of the vehicle about an inch in stock form, but i understand toyota has to deal with fuel efficiency averages and rollover resistance)

 

[TacoRunn0517]

With the amount of DD'ing that I do, I know I'd benefit from having KDSS. I enjoy riding my Runner as is but having that technology would be one items I'd probably look to have whenever I replace my current one.

 

[Jetboy]

One thing I read after I purchased my ORP with kdss is that kdss equipped vehicles have lower ground clearance. Is this true? Clearly not advertised by Toyota. My manual still says 9.6”.
Is the only difference in ground clearance a lower skid plate at the front only, to accommodate the kdss pistons? I measured mine last night and at that point I measure 9” even. Not a huge difference, especially considerekng the wheel hubs are around 8” or so , and that’s for both kdss and non (doesn’t change).

No. Grab a tape measure. The TRD Pro skid fits over the KDSS sway bar (with side cutouts. You lose no ground clearance. It's an optical illusion because it sits further forward.

It's not the lowest part of the front suspension. It does reduce the approach angel relative to that front part of the suspension. So it does sometimes bang on stuff. But it fits under the TRD Pro skid, so in that comparison it's identical.

Here's a level picture of the OEM KDSS Skid. You'll note that from a level position it's the same as the rest of the front diff area.

Here's a pic of the KDSS skid from the rear looking forward. (Yeah I beat the shit out of my skids. They work. I have switched to a TRD Pro front skid.) You be the judge of whether it reduces ground clearance.

 

[e60ral]

doesn't the pro skid sit close enough to the sway bar that it has to be modified? the stock one has loads of space between the skid and the sway bar

 

[Jetboy]

doesn't the pro skid sit close enough to the sway bar that it has to be modified? the stock one has loads of space between the skid and the sway bar

You have to cut the sides out for where the bar passes. But it bolts in to the same spots in the same way. The lower part of the TRD Pro skid is the same. The original TRD Pro 4runners had KDSS, but it was dropped before production.

Here's a pic of the first TRD Pro pre-production model that they used for media. It had KDSS and the skid plate cut out like most of us do. The skid was designed originally for KDSS it appears. Even though it first showed up on a FJ Cruiser. My guess is that it was designed to fit every 150 platform with the KDSS cutout for the models that have it.

 

[sting555]

KDSS reduces your ground clearance by about 1". A friend of mine who I wheel with has a trail w/ KDSS and he is getting rid of it because of the ground clearance issues. If you dont go offroad, the KDSS will probably be a benefit, but its actually a limiting factor out in the dirt.

 

[Jetboy]

KDSS reduces your ground clearance by about 1". A friend of mine who I wheel with has a trail w/ KDSS and he is getting rid of it because of the ground clearance issues. If you dont go offroad, the KDSS will probably be a benefit, but its actually a limiting factor out in the dirt.

This is wrong. It's not a guess or opinion. Have you ever looked? It takes about 2seconds to look underneath and verify.

It's kinda remarkable you didn't even look up five comments to see pictures of the fact that it doesn't change ground clearance.

 

[TEujunga]

This is wrong. It's not a guess or opinion. Have you ever looked? It takes about 2seconds to look underneath and verify.

It's kinda remarkable you didn't even look up five comments to see pictures of the fact that it doesn't change ground clearance.

I don't need to look under the truck. I know fake news when I see it. KDSS absolutely reduces ground clearance. My friend's cousin's co-worker's brother-in-law said so. Plus, I read it on the Internet, so it must be true.