KDSS vs Non-KDSS?

Awesome! Thank you so much for the information, that helps a lot! No KDSS it is then.

So that begs the question, what options are available to disconnect the front sway bar? Aftermarket sway bar disconnects? Or does everyone just leave it attached?

IF you’re not planning to lift your truck high (>3 in), then you WILL regret pass on KDSS. KDSS is a CLEAR benefit for pretty much every driving situation. Now, if you happen to drive like a demon on washboards, then just air down a little and you get the same ride as every other 4runner gets...and then have tons of rattles afterwards to deal with! :D
 
Ignorance is bliss....

And just FYI, you’re 100% wrong.

Pretty ridiculous that you take the time to type that, but not mention any numbers or links to prove it. Unlike the guy who posted above me.

Oh but I do get that you are an old timer with 17k posts and have a short fuse. I am the same way on another forum.
 
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Pretty ridiculous that you take the time to type that, but not mention any numbers or links to prove it. Unlike the guy who posted above me.

Oh but I do get that you are an old timer with 17k posts and have a short fuse. I am the same way on another forum.

Are you serious? No links or numbers You say? Blind ignorance.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/road-tests/toyota-prado-kdss-test

“On the Prado’s rear axle, KDSS increases wheel travel from 465mm to 565mm (more than 20 per cent).“

I sure hope that this will DEFINITIVELY end silly (bordering on moronic) arguments against KDSS multiple benefits on-road AND off-road.

Just in case you still blind, here is more of your group of people being proven wrong many times over: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/141361-kdss-te-vs-non-kdss-sr5.html
 
For people claiming TRD Pro was made without KDSS for a reason. May be true? This is my opinion here but I think the TRD Pro (for the 4Runner) was Toyota marketing 100% its literally the 4x4 base model with taller suspension and tires/wheels + aesthetics. It was a model to really sell TRD parts to the average 4Runner buyer. I mean the TRD grille on Tacoma / 4Runner / Tundra.. They probably made millions.. Genius on Toyota's part.

The Pro is an Offroad Premium without options for KDSS or sunroof.

Personally, I think one of the reasons why Toyota opted not to include KDSS on the Pro is because all of the upgrades (besides unique paint) are not performed at the Tahara plant in Japan. They are added when they arrive port side.

My guess is that the added complexity and parts mix would disrupt their mature assembly line, not worth the upset for the few thousand Pros they sell.

So they have the TRD retrofit team swap everything out here in the USA, and it is a LOT easier to swap suspension on a non-KDSS Runner. When I added Pro suspension to my truck, Matt (Mwray on the board) showed me a lot of careful attention and manipulation in order to perform the install without completely disassembling the system- and I mean moving extra bottle jacks around to get the coil stacks to clear on their way in/out, keeping the KDSS cylinders from extending fully, etc. Toyota would probably decide not to take these shortcuts and just completely pull everything apart.

I bet that Toyota decided that this extra labor and complexity was not worth the cost, and trimmed KDSS from the Pro's option sheet for this reason. After all, people are still lining up in droves to pay $5K over MSRP in most areas. Smart move on their marketing/manufacturing teams.
 
Uhhh because KDSS system is not cheap. SR5 is a base model...as such it is for the cost-conscious buyers.

Uhh that makes no sense since there are plenty of people who do not buy the Off Road model because they have no need for the 4 wheeling options. It has nothing to do with ones budget. In fact, these buyers would, apparently, benefit greatly by having a safer vehicle for the greater on road miles they drive.
 
Uhh that makes no sense since there are plenty of people who do not buy the Off Road model because they have no need for the 4 wheeling options. It has nothing to do with ones budget. In fact, these buyers would, apparently, benefit greatly by having a safer vehicle for the greater on road miles they drive.
Why can't you get XREAS on the SR5 or Off-road?

Its all about model differentiation

Sent from my P00A using Tapatalk
 
Uhh that makes no sense since there are plenty of people who do not buy the Off Road model because they have no need for the 4 wheeling options. It has nothing to do with ones budget. In fact, these buyers would, apparently, benefit greatly by having a safer vehicle for the greater on road miles they drive.

KDSS is NOT ABS or airbags. It does not provide greater on-road safety. It just decreases body roll around corners. Remember, 4runner is a SUV...so, even with KDSS, the thing gonna roll with any corner...with KDSS, the 4runner is slightly flatter around corners.

There are plenty of examples of cars with optional suspension/anti-roll/air suspension stuff that decreases body roll. Camry XSE has sportier suspension to decrease body roll...do you ask Toyota why it didn't put that suspension into the base Camry? Same for BMW. Mercedes.

It is all about meeting a price point and what Toyota thinks its customers for that level equipment will want to buy.
 
KDSS is NOT ABS or airbags. It does not provide greater on-road safety. It just decreases body roll around corners. Remember, 4runner is a SUV...so, even with KDSS, the thing gonna roll with any corner...with KDSS, the 4runner is slightly flatter around corners.

There are plenty of examples of cars with optional suspension/anti-roll/air suspension stuff that decreases body roll. Camry XSE has sportier suspension to decrease body roll...do you ask Toyota why it didn't put that suspension into the base Camry? Same for BMW. Mercedes.

It is all about meeting a price point and what Toyota thinks its customers for that level equipment will want to buy.

Thanks for clearing that up. I always thought KDSS was a little overhyped for what it really does and if I can save $2000 I can put up with a slight bit more body role since my 4Runner is not my DD.
 
Just bought a 2018 4runner Offroad Pro with KDSS.

I was heavily debating between the SR5 and ORP KDSS. After test driving both the KDSS was well worth it. My 4th Gen 4Runner had Xreas and then Bilstiens at 110,000 miles so I was used to the flatter handling.

Both SR5 & ORP are plenty capable for my offroad needs, so I was bummed the SR5 did not offer KDSS.

--Living in Colorado I won't be surprised if I use the locker one day :)
 
KDSS is NOT ABS or airbags. It does not provide greater on-road safety. It just decreases body roll around corners. Remember, 4runner is a SUV...so, even with KDSS, the thing gonna roll with any corner...with KDSS, the 4runner is slightly flatter around corners.

There are plenty of examples of cars with optional suspension/anti-roll/air suspension stuff that decreases body roll. Camry XSE has sportier suspension to decrease body roll...do you ask Toyota why it didn't put that suspension into the base Camry? Same for BMW. Mercedes.

It is all about meeting a price point and what Toyota thinks its customers for that level equipment will want to buy.

exactly, the KDSS is to the 4runner, that a sports package is to...(insert whatever vehicle you want).

to the rest of the IG crowd:

XREAS for onroad upgrade
KDSS for offroad upgrade (although it upgrades both).

It's just straight marketing on toyota's part. Most people, whom toyota targets (demographics), don't know or care or want KDSS. However, there are those (like me), who want options from the land cruiser goodie bag and will pay for it, and hence, why KDSS is marketed on the trail package. KDSS makes sense on a platform designed to go slow over everthing and everywhere (land cruiser), but still retain its on road handling (land cruiser).

The pro is targeted more to the raptor crowd, and hence, the softer spring rates, and upgraded shocks, but having KDSS on a desert runner, is going to SUCK BALLS in terms of ride comfort going fast offroad. Sure you can do it, but its not going to be as pleasant as a vehicle without KDSS.

SR5 is the more affordable 4runner, targeted to a buyer within a specific price target.

It's just options and trim levels to maximize the 4runner's exposure to the potential buyers out there.

Toyota isn't going to reveal its marketing strategy, so there are no numbers, or graphs, or charts, or case studies, so we can all speculate, but its common sense.

KDSS is the banana's.

Without KDSS--> handles like a boat (I'm exaggerating).
with KDSS--->handles like a BMW x5 (i'm exaggerating).

True story, I had no interest in 4runners until I had a road trip in a landcruiser. It handled gravel roads like a normal SUV, but it stuck to the tarmac like glue in corners (for a 5000lb + vehicle). I told myself that day I want a land cruiser, but of course, I can't afford a land cruiser, so when I saw toyota was offering KDSS in a 4runner, i was sold....

It's one of the few options out there for any vehicle that is worth its asking price. Better than stickers and badges.
 
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Thanks for clearing that up. I always thought KDSS was a little overhyped for what it really does and if I can save $2000 I can put up with a slight bit more body role since my 4Runner is not my DD.

Overhyped...why? $2000 that improves on-road handling AND off-road capability all in one package? Sure it is expensive, but there are $2k options on other vehicles that do far less. :bigok:
 
Overhyped...why? $2000 that improves on-road handling AND off-road capability all in one package? Sure it is expensive, but there are $2k options on other vehicles that do far less. :bigok:

The 4Runner is a high center of gravity shoebox with truck tires. It will never be a sports car or handle like a sports car. I’ve owned one for over 14 years and it has never been the vehicle I would (or could) drive on a daily basis. If the body roll was ever bad enough to cause uncontrollable understeer I would just replace the rear bar with a larger one. Of course the truck tires will give out well before any suspension gimmick entices anyone to make a Nordschleife run.
 
The 4Runner is a high center of gravity shoebox with truck tires. It will never be a sports car or handle like a sports car. I’ve owned one for over 14 years and it has never been the vehicle I would (or could) drive on a daily basis. If the body roll was ever bad enough to cause uncontrollable understeer I would just replace the rear bar with a larger one. Of course the truck tires will give out well before any suspension gimmick entices anyone to make a Nordschleife run.

KDSS is the single best tool to help reduce the downsides of driving and "shoebox with truck tires". It is nice that it operates as a sway bar disconnect for offroading but the main benefit is on-road. I did not really appreciate how big of a difference it made until driving an SR5, which drives like an SUV from the 90s. There is a reason Toyota puts it on all their premium SUVs.

There is one thing to note though: KDSS does not seem to be an option that is really recognized by used car dealers or valuation services. This can be a benefit if you are buying used, or a problem if you are selling/trading.
 
The 4Runner is a high center of gravity shoebox with truck tires. It will never be a sports car or handle like a sports car. I’ve owned one for over 14 years and it has never been the vehicle I would (or could) drive on a daily basis. If the body roll was ever bad enough to cause uncontrollable understeer I would just replace the rear bar with a larger one. Of course the truck tires will give out well before any suspension gimmick entices anyone to make a Nordschleife run.

Replace rear bar with thicker you say...and that will cripple the best part of the suspension off-road...the rear axle. Not good. Now, you see why KDSS is so good. There is no compromise...better body motion control around corners on-road AND more wheel travel off-road.

High center gravity...sure but not that bad. Why? Frame is where weight is...and that is low. The problem with non-KDSS is that suspension is soft for off-road work. This makes it body roll quite a bit around corners.

Gimmick? Hood scoop is a gimmick. TRD badges are gimmicks. 27.5” of water fording is a gimmick.

KDSS a gimmick? Nah, it actually works as advertised. No compromise on-road OR off-road. Have cake and eat it too...well a $2000 cake!
 
I think we've covered this before - but two points seem to be a little lost.

First: KDSS is not only extra suspension travel. It is forced articulation - and that means it also stabilizes the body and centers it between the two axles. That also means that it balances the weight between the 4 tires. And that's a big deal for things like rock crawling. It is limited in travel range - which is it's achilles heel. The basic idea is the holy grail of rock crawling suspension. The lack of travel is where it could use some help. Off the shelf it's the best suspension on the road and in the rocks of any 4runner model. And that's important. The 4Runner isn't a rock crawler. It's not a sports car. If you're not going off road - you should buy something else. If you're not doing a lot of highway time - you should also buy something else. There are better vehicles for both tasks. What the 4Runner excels at is doing both pretty well. And KDSS is perfectly suited for the mix.

Along with the body control is the benefits of controlling weight on a roof rack and on side hill. Here's a photo out of my windshield on Cadillac Hill. The pucker factor in that 80 was high... in my 4runner - not at all. KDSS keeps you from looking like that. That's where disconnected sway bars hurt you.
Lfd_VVsCNwkoeuSIXRA82L6Da6xuBs_WPyG3XjH5AdLwtE9-dfhLRZquP1W6Ql0857JdrqnuVukkElYHXluy6lSiQekSQoJJOKl4gOB5cIOIHU-dDI7See0MRuZw3PpDE1mwmudahoAVz9CpApjqdwkqXN1r0c3hAe-NTc-7NYut3teVMRw4fwmOO_iN_7c3Evp18s4bqX5Ae_6YXiwDnOm4OhFGt_DoYFfaR5p5cstSw7BDQVjmu1aZ5esIplsaxk2m9carw2IWmsS64wYhgaStxISo1tWFHHUsJwbAlH8EC8sVuRcfcGODNSV1DVWKogZbE4c4sIPH1U7AS3j8yR2PtvPuwE7AaZVyDsdbFqDDF69kZQDdLpcp0ojQ4w2Mj-fPa6VuBm7qdawXgwWC7vzd6GzbOqbiMWX9W4fWvAUdlHgmyM7gwapRGkjgL_DqFaAaz6vgqL11K8L3gBqaPlHdjB_TMAejmQyeaidUqSDtMhZj97ki83D_TpfU4rFATrK99_KT4Hvoh23v75z32yThY4OZ9P1e80mVyTqhHZDy7dztLLBRSakLqW1HPZ94t9fahbYVdLgz-DtI3x30XHlU5I5fTfUR702slDL4ahX12_wMFEwrrygnvHZxD7IGtQP_QbgkG46OIUElzxpWA58b2Hw_kZPqoA=w1352-h1015-no


The second point is that the choice not to put it on the TRD Pro was based on cost. KDSS could pretty easily be fitted with any size of sway bar. So it would be very simple for Toyota to just bend a smaller diameter sway bar set to match the spring rate of the bar that comes on the TRD Pro. Then it would act the same as the PRO on the road and fast dirt, but also perform better in the rocks and other slow speed terrain.

There are a lot of different formulas to get to a suspension that works good on and off road. KDSS has a lot of limitations. Most importantly it's asymmetrical and has relatively short travel compared to something like a rock crawler. And it's difficult to modify for long travel. It's not the answer to everything or the only answer to great suspension performance.

It is a heck of a bargain in the USA. In Australia it's a minimum of $12,000 upgrade to get KDSS.
 
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I think [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] nailed it - its a hell of a system to add to what the 4runner already does great at which is being pretty good at a lot but not the best at anything (rock crawling, dessert running, highway driving, etc. ) I think its gained so much popularity due to exactly that - not as rough as a Jeep , as large as a raptor or as docile as a highlander.


Without KDSS you mind as well be a poser..... [MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION]
 
I think [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] nailed it - its a hell of a system to add to what the 4runner already does great at which is being pretty good at a lot but not the best at anything (rock crawling, dessert running, highway driving, etc. ) I think its gained so much popularity due to exactly that - not as rough as a Jeep , as large as a raptor or as docile as a highlander.


Without KDSS you mind as well be a poser..... [MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION]

Uh. Okay.
 

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