kn CAI or keep stock

Bumpin' Yota said:

Secondly, if you would have READ what I orionally posted you would have realized HOW I came to the conclusion that I did on OEM.

Yes, perhaps toyota has addressed it the intake system on a 3rd or 4th gen, but they CERTAINLY did NOT on a 2nd gen!
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I did read what you wrote but it didn't strike me as the logical explanation I was looking for. So Toyota has done some less than stellar engineering work, what's the design flaw with the OEM intake? Supposing the performance claims you've made are true, there could be other reasons for poor bottom end, like maybe something was malfunctioning. Does the OEM setup suck air right off the engine or something? If so, then yes I'd agree with you that the OEM intake is garbage.

As far as the consistency of the oil goes, my recharge pack does not have the aerosole can of oil, it has the manual, plastic spray pump. For entertainment alone, I would love to see someone try spray 5w oil through a plastic manual spray pump that generates such a fine mist...
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Well it's certainly possible to thin out the oil that comes in the pump also. Spray some onto a piece of glass or something and let it air out a while. I think you'll find that the resulting film is thicker than you think.

As far as KN stating it 'impeading air flow' perhaps you should understand the definition of impeadance....

Impeadance is the resistance of flow or movement from one point to another, not the complete occlusion of it as you seem to infer. Yes, over oiling will reduce total air flow slightly compared to an unoiled filter or even a properly oiled filter, however the significance of this is minimal at best, IMO.
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"Minimal at best"? That's pure speculation, you have no idea what the impact is. And yes, I know what impedance is and at no time did I infer or suggest that occlusion or blockage occurs with an over oiled filter. I merely raised the possibility that an over-oiled K&N could be more restrictive than an OEM filter. Considering what K&N has to say about over-oiling, it's clear I'm not the one with "my head up my arse".



You think OEM is better I do not, we shall agree to disagree.
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Again, where did I say the OEM filter was better? I'm just saying the OEM design is adequate and little or no performance gains will be had with the installation of a K&N.
 
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04Runner said:
I have been involved in the racing circle for Porsches for several years. Time and again K&N comes up as a discussion point.

Invariably the overwhelming belief is they do not filter well and produce minimal performance gains.

The best and only way to resolve this particular discussion is to do some independant tests of both the stock and K&N filter in exactly the same conditions eg ambient temp.s, altitudes, humidity etc. on the same vehicle.

Once some solid data from an independant tester with graphs and data results is posted, then and only then, will anyone be able to say definitively one way or another what's "best".

While it's not incumbent on anyone here to provide these tests, we should all be very wary of comments made in these forums, as most information is opinion, not necessarily facts.;):

Cheers
Mark
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I'd like to see some independent tests as well. The CFM bar graphs on K&N's site are comical.

To me the biggest deterrent is that no major manufacturer is supplying K&N or any type of oiled cotton gauze filters with their vehicles. Look at the motorcycle industry, performance is everything yet everybody insists on using the "bad" air filters that supposedly rob us of horsepower. That speaks volumes in my opinion.
 
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Iowa4Runner said:
I did read what you wrote but it didn't strike me as the logical explanation I was looking for. So Toyota has done some less than stellar engineering work, what's the design flaw with the OEM intake? Supposing the performance claims you've made are true, there could be other reasons for poor bottom end, like maybe something was malfunctioning. Does the OEM setup suck air right off the engine or something? If so, then yes I'd agree with you that the OEM intake is garbage.

The oem intake on a 2nd gen pulls from directly behind the driver's headlight and upon inspection of this area there is virtually no room for anything to flow for crap. Secondarily this entire area must then flow through a 2.5" stricture before changing dirctions - a full 90 degrees - pass through the OEM filtration unit then make another 90 degree change, pass through the VAFM, then pass through the intake silencer on the elbow and yet again make another 90* turn. Sorry but constant and radical changes in direction does not promote AFM numbers....

The FIPK pulls from the same area, but COMPLETELY eliminates the turns, the elbow silencer and uses a smoother transition to get air to the TB.

Well it's certainly possible to thin out the oil that comes in the pump also. Spray some onto a piece of glass or something and let it air out a while. I think you'll find that the resulting film is thicker than you think.

we shall see

"Minimal at best"? That's pure speculation, you have no idea what the impact is. And yes, I know what impedance is and at no time did I infer or suggest that occlusion or blockage occurs with an over oiled filter. I merely raised the possibility that an over-oiled K&N could be more restrictive than an OEM filter.

I have a far better idea than you as I am the one using an FIPK. Secondarily what exactly do you think "IMO" means?!? And your 'possibility raised' is also pure speculation. With NOTHING to substantiate your 'possibility.'

Considering what K&N has to say about over-oiling, it's clear I'm not the one with "my head up my arse".

Well you certainly do not believe their statements on flow rates, so why believe their statement on oiling? Might want to bend over and start pulling on your own head there bub, cuz you are the one smelling feces...

Again, where did I say the OEM filter was better? I'm just saying the OEM design is adequate and little or no performance gains will be had with the installation of a K&N.

Which you have absolutely NOTHING to back up any such statement. So where are your empirical test results???
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I have similar experience with 04Runner but in BMW circles and there were tests done back in '99 or so with stock, K&N, ITG and a couple of other filters. I think I posted the outcome on this forum a while back. I chose to go with ITG foam filter CAI for my M3 but I'll rarely see the dusty conditions I would with my 4runner. I still have to take it out and wash it which is a real pain in the ass.

If you feel comfortable with K&N, then go for it, it's your car, not mine. I don't see why people need to press their opinions on others.
 
OEM all the way. K&N filter is like placing a turd where you air filter is. Slowly the horse power is fed to your engine...
 
Bumpin'-

While I certainly don't agree with your rationale, I'm not going to pick your reply apart and keep stringing this out. Anyone with a logical, objective mind can see what's going on here and that's all I'm really interested in accomplishing. Enjoy your K&N...
 
Bluto said:
A K&N filter passes more dirt than a stock paper filter. I will never use a K&N filter. I plan to keep my truck a long time.

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm


I'm positive Boaz's oil analysis will further prove the K&N does not filter well. There will probably be more wear metals and silica in the oil.
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Yeah I am takin one for the team....

I doubt 5000 miles with it in will hurt much, but 100,000 miles with it in would be a different story.
 
Thought I'd chime in here for a minute. Air filter's for the most part are completely personal preference. The HP "boost" you get from any on a stock vehicle is so minimal that anyone who says they can tell a difference is lying. Most do it for the sound, and the sound can trick your mind into thinking you feel more power.

When I had my WRX, I installed a CAI and it completely screwed the air/fuel ratio and actually bogged my car down which hurt me at the track. After selling it to some kid who thought it "Sounded Awesome!", I tried just replacing the filter with a K&N. I was not impressed. The oil on it ruined my MAF sensor which once again screwed up my air/fuel ratio. I ran my paper filter in that thing all the way up until after I switched to a FM intercooler, bigger turbo, bigger injectors, and had the UTEC engine management unit. Then I went with a CAI.

Long story short, on a stock (engine) vehicle, the dealer knows best. They just tend to play the cautious role more so then maybe you or I would.
 
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