This is important. Especially considering the Cooper AT3 comes in three versions. A 265 SL AT3 4S and a 285 E AT3 XLT are completely different applications.
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KO2 Tires vs Cooper AT3 and Falcon Wild Peak
- Thread starter Lexington
- Start date
This is important. Especially considering the Cooper AT3 comes in three versions. A 265 SL AT3 4S and a 285 E AT3 XLT are completely different applications.
SoCalHeadhunter
New member
I've run the original KO and the newer KO2 for years on my Jeeps and always been happy with them both on and off-road.
I've run everything from a 31" - 35" with these tires and had a great experience.
More recently, I've switched to the KM3 in a 35" tire and really like it, but I don't have many miles on that and would go with the KO2 if it were on a daily driver. The Jeep is dedicated to the dirt and the drive to and from the trail, so I would go with the KM3 again in the future. I've run BFG Krawlers on the Jeep and the KM3 does almost as well on dirt, but much better on the highway to the dirt.
I recently put Falcon AT Trails on my Subaru Crosstrek and I like those on highway, but they are a new tire and have not seen any dirt. The Falcons you are looking at are a bit more aggressive.
I'm looking to buy a 1999 gen 3 4R with a V6 and manual trans. It will probably see 50% on-road and 50% off-road. I plan to use the KO2 on that.
Hopefully, I'll find a 4Runner to buy soon and then be able to post an opinion with that perspective.
I've run everything from a 31" - 35" with these tires and had a great experience.
More recently, I've switched to the KM3 in a 35" tire and really like it, but I don't have many miles on that and would go with the KO2 if it were on a daily driver. The Jeep is dedicated to the dirt and the drive to and from the trail, so I would go with the KM3 again in the future. I've run BFG Krawlers on the Jeep and the KM3 does almost as well on dirt, but much better on the highway to the dirt.
I recently put Falcon AT Trails on my Subaru Crosstrek and I like those on highway, but they are a new tire and have not seen any dirt. The Falcons you are looking at are a bit more aggressive.
I'm looking to buy a 1999 gen 3 4R with a V6 and manual trans. It will probably see 50% on-road and 50% off-road. I plan to use the KO2 on that.
Hopefully, I'll find a 4Runner to buy soon and then be able to post an opinion with that perspective.
Hadelson
New member
At 25K Got rid of the KO2's as became extremely dangerous in the rain. They were excellent Snow and dirt traction tires, but in any rain were dangerous.
Went to Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S and very happy. Excellent all around traction. This winter, we had 31" of snow in one dump - Snow traction was excellent.
Not sure if you are questioning the sanity of applying higher pressure on a apparently more rugged "truck" tire. I used to think the opposite but here is the explanation:
https://www.toyotires.com/media/3729/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20200723.pdf
You may jump to page 11 for an example.
I'm not questioning whether it's the correct pressure or not for maximized load capacity and I understand why the manufacturer has to say that. I'm also not worried about load carrying capacity on a mid sized SUV with an E-Load tire designed for larger trucks. The tire will be fine.
I'm only questioning ride quality on a mid-sized SUV on an E-Load tire with 45-50 psi of air in it.
When I had 32psi on the KO2 E rated, the steering was heavy and gave me the impression that traction on snow was good. Was a bit reluctant to air it up to 50psi as steering becomes very light but then it still performs well in all conditions I drive in. The ride is fine coming from driving a TJ but to be honest the Duelers are better in normal daily use.
If I were to do it again I would get a C rated all terrain which is much lighter and hopefully a faster response on the road while having the look and meeting my needs offroad (mild).
With two sets of tires now it will be a while for me to get the next set.
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It really does just boil down to buying the correct load. An E is never going to be ideal on a 4runner. But, with certain sizes you are sometimes out of luck if you want a certain tire. The good thing is that the tire market is coming around on that thanks to the enthusiast market demand and also OEs building more specialty vehicles (Raptor, Rubicons, etc.) forcing companies like BFG to build C load tires in popular sizes like 285/70 and 315/70.
The E usually has more protection (plies) on the side wall which might be important for serious offroaders but not me.
It seems there's no C rated 275/70R17 ATs on the market at the moment but I believe there are quite a few in 265s such as TOYO AT3 which I might consider going forward. 285 and up is too much for me but the OP might be interested.
Falken offers the AT3W in 275/70 C, but it weighs more than the KO2 E in the same size.
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MAST4R
New member
That would also depend on your suspension. My LTE play surprisingly well on road with a stiffer, offroad suspension. But they would stress out a stock suspension.
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LTE tires do not have more plies anywhere. They just have thicker plies. Only select few AT LTE tires (and most MTs) have a 3 ply sidewall like mine or the KO2.
As for the original question, good P metric tires like the AT3W or the Toyo AT III are enough for offroading in most terrains, speaking from experience. As for Cooper, their AT is a light duty tire and I know forum members who have had many punctures offroad both commercially and recreationally with those on trucks and Subarus alike. They do have a great rep for on road driving though.
Finally, the terrain that requires stronger tires is not rocks per se, but sharp, especially volcanic rock. Say, southern Utah is pretty mild so long as you do difficult but not hardcore trails (where punctures would be a byproduct of other things). By contrast SW Arizona wipes out P metric tires even on very easy to drive terrain. Mountain trails with lots of fallen branches and sharp sticks can also cause issues but I have not had any in Montana.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
Raptor size 315/70R17 is available in both C and E.
Problem is fitting a 34” to your 4Runner!
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Right. There wasn't really a C load 315/70r17 until these. Even the previous Raptors were D. They are more popular for the Wrangler crowd as they are all 17" wheels now too. Was just using them as an example of a popular enthusiast size.
Are you only talking about the 4S/P metric or the AT3 LT as well? If the AT3 LT, is this right? Honest question, I'm looking at getting new tires and my research had me leaning toward the LT in C. Everything I've read/heard is that while not as completely rock-crawling capable as K02s, still pretty reliable off-road with no puncture issues. The TOYO geo AT IIIs seem to me to have the rep for puncture and sidewall issues, even in E loads. Would appreciate it if you could relate some examples, as it would really help in deciding.
blackened_offroad
New member
I have Cooper ATX's. They are good on the road, have been ok in the rain. They are great in fresh or dry snow, but terrible in packed or wet snow and straight up dangerous on ice. They were great offroad in Moab. Even when I was high centered on a rock and spinning them against sharp rocks, no issues. They are kinda noisy, but I don't mind because I'm always driving alone with music on.
however, I got a flat on a dirt road in Idaho after about 8k miles. sidewall cut. I dunno how because the road isn't even rocky. and these are the E-rated ones. irritating.
however, I got a flat on a dirt road in Idaho after about 8k miles. sidewall cut. I dunno how because the road isn't even rocky. and these are the E-rated ones. irritating.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
I did not know about the D! Seems to be a good middle ground for some full size truck owners that are heavy but not quite a 3/4 ton truck.
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MAST4R
New member
Cooper has been changing their AT 3 design a lot. But it is fundamentally a light duty setup.
Consider Cooper's own words, this is their own video for Australia. My current tires are a premium version of the ST Maxx they run in the test. As you can see, the St Maxx is in a different league from the AT3. The KO2 competes with the St Maxx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kz8mmLkeks
At rock crawling pressures, the AT3 is much closer to a normal tire than to the St MAXX. There is no comparison at all.
At my usual 20 psi for rocks, my tires are 2.5X better than the AT3. It would be similar with KO2 for this test. For real world, where sidewall also plays, the LTC Ko2 would not be as strong as LTD/LTE KO2 or ST MAXX.
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Yea, I know they aren't for rock crawling but that's not what I'd be getting them for, I'm more concerned about sidewall punctures in moderate speed trails with lots of smaller sharper rocks, like some of the longer death valley trails. I've read/seen AT3s do fine with no punctures in those conditions, but was wondering if there were examples of this not working out, since i haven't really come across them in my searches.
MAST4R
New member
Big rock crawling is completely different, people get flats there for other reasons.
The test on the video shows precisely what you are likely to encounter in terms of performance, not nails obviously.
If you want AT3 for Death Valley make sure you have a matching spare and think carefully about pressures. Lower tire pressures help with punctures through the tread as on the video but they expose more of the sidewall.
The people I mentioned earlier are a guy in OZ whose company he says gets AT 3 flats all the time offroad while the trucks on KO2 do not and the other one is in the eastern US who got several AT punctures on an Outback.
I would personally not rely on AT3 in Death Valley. At least look into the top lighter duty AT such as the new Toyo AT III. I have never heard people complaining of punctures with AT II or III and I personally had II in the past.
Thanks, that's good to know. I also was considering Toyo AT III, but there are a few people on this board who had sidewall punctures on them with E load. Don't know if those are outliers but looks like K02s seem better than either that or the Cooper at3s. I'm not specifically doing death valley all the time, that just the kind of terrain I had in mind when thinking of where i want my tires' upper tolerances at.
I'm probably overthinking it, back in the day i had goodyear wranglers on my xj and did all sorts of trails and never a puncture or concern about on road performance. I'm assuming a 5th gen 4r with any of these tires is going to be loads better, haha.
Lexington
Member
I decided to get the BFG KO2. Already put 3,000 miles on them. I wasn’t disappointed. I got the car up to 80mph on the HWY and the tires were smooth and quiet. Also did a little off-roading as well and the tires handled very nicely. No complaints at all. Very pleased with their performance so far.
Thanks for the info everyone!
Thanks for the info everyone!
