Around $250
Land Cruiser 2022
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Around $250
Jetboy
New member
At that price - it seems like a no-brainer to flush it on time. I'm surprised most people don't do it. If I could flush the KDSS at 100k for $250, I'd do it without a second thought.
Jetboy
New member
I don't think hydrogen will play a significant role in the future of our energy infrastructure.
It's hard to make. By that I mean it's not energy efficient.
Almost all commercial hydrogen is currently made from natural gas. It's not very "green" in the way we currently make it.
Electricity is far easier to transport long distances. And for everything short of long haul travel the total cycle efficiency for electricity to BEV cars is significantly more efficient. If you wanted to take a mWh of electricity and turn it into miles driven - you'll get about 3 times as many miles from a BEV as you will from using that energy to make hydrogen and then use hydrogen in a vehicle. Over the life of a typical vehicle - the cost of the batteries is easily covered by the savings on energy.
Hydrogen has some big advantages in energy density and for applications where the weight is critical - like air travel - it's probably a viable fuel. Long range trucking - another place where hydrogen could make sense in the medium term. Long term - I think OTR trucking will also be BEVs. The energy cost vs up front battery costs will tip the scales toward BEV.
In the end - the math just doesn't work for hydrogen unless you have a very specific need for high energy density.
It's hard to make. By that I mean it's not energy efficient.
Almost all commercial hydrogen is currently made from natural gas. It's not very "green" in the way we currently make it.
Electricity is far easier to transport long distances. And for everything short of long haul travel the total cycle efficiency for electricity to BEV cars is significantly more efficient. If you wanted to take a mWh of electricity and turn it into miles driven - you'll get about 3 times as many miles from a BEV as you will from using that energy to make hydrogen and then use hydrogen in a vehicle. Over the life of a typical vehicle - the cost of the batteries is easily covered by the savings on energy.
Hydrogen has some big advantages in energy density and for applications where the weight is critical - like air travel - it's probably a viable fuel. Long range trucking - another place where hydrogen could make sense in the medium term. Long term - I think OTR trucking will also be BEVs. The energy cost vs up front battery costs will tip the scales toward BEV.
In the end - the math just doesn't work for hydrogen unless you have a very specific need for high energy density.
bamma
New member
If implemented, the hydrogen will probably be produced on site at fill-up stations with water and electricity (how most of the Shell stations work). No batteries needed, and you could fill your tank in a couple minutes vs. 30 minutes for an electric car. Electric cars would be great for local trips. Out on the road, I'd prefer hydrogen, and I wouldn't want to wait in line on a road trip to charge my electric car at a "fast" filling station. Hydrogen will allow more miles to empty vs electric.
And hydrogen is cleaner than electric:
The Hydrogen carbon footprint is an order of magnitude better than electric vehicles: 2.7g of carbon dioxide per kilometre compared to 20.9g.
The downside? Hydrogen fuel cells are more expensive to produce. Once lithium becomes more rare, the electric car manufacturing is going to have some issues.
And hydrogen is cleaner than electric:
The Hydrogen carbon footprint is an order of magnitude better than electric vehicles: 2.7g of carbon dioxide per kilometre compared to 20.9g.
The downside? Hydrogen fuel cells are more expensive to produce. Once lithium becomes more rare, the electric car manufacturing is going to have some issues.
RichinRidgewood
New member
Sounds good and full of truth...
Jetboy
New member
Efficient water splitting has been "just around the corner" for... well my entire life at least. There are something like 30,000 public EV chargers right now in the USA. And they're easy and inexpensive to install in almost any residential garage.
As of today - there are around 50 total hydrogen fuel stations in the USA. Probably less than 5 privately owned.
You get the idea.
BEVs will exceed 500 miles of range in a year or two. At that point refuel times don't really matter. I can drive more than 500 miles in a day. But I can't do it without stopping a few times. With recharge rates at 300+ KW and going up - it's a non-issue.
I think hydrogen will have some place in the transportation industry, but not a lot. It's time to shine has passed and it missed the opportunity. BEVs - even if they were less economical - have already entrenched their position so heavily that hydrogen is dead. Just like CNG cars.
RichinRidgewood
New member
If you say so...
Tesla already announced their first car with 500+ mile range, to be delivered in that timeframe. Say what you will about them but they’ve never under delivered on the range promise and it’s only gotten better over time.
Many major manufacturers are in the BEV game now, including Mercedes who just announced a whole line up of them.
The holy grail for BEVs is range, and with all the players working on it, it’s only a matter of time. As cool as Hydrogen is, not one automaker is betting on it now. That alone will relegate it to an also ran for the near future.
RichinRidgewood
New member
yawn
incorrect
Charging time is the most important.
Most of the Teslas around here are driven by well kept house wives.
It’s a shit company and something like 1/2 owned by Toyota anyhow. I know. I worked as a supplier for them. Same parts went into the electric RAV as the Tesla. Wont be around in the future.
Capacitor technology is in the future. BMW and Audi have a patent on some sort of capacitor that would work in cars for them. It’s already used on hyper cars. Very very low charge time.
Lamborghini patents supercapacitor tech
What is a supercapacitor? The next step for EVs and hybrids explained | CAR Magazine
RichinRidgewood
New member
From the links above...
“But the largest advantage of supercapacitors over lithium-ion and nickel cadmium batteries is their ability to charge and discharge rapidly; we're talking charging in minutes rather than hours. So supercapacitors could be the panacea to reduce the hours it currently takes to recharge an all-electric car – or offer a boost of speed to hybrids, something we’ll explain later in this article. “
“But the largest advantage of supercapacitors over lithium-ion and nickel cadmium batteries is their ability to charge and discharge rapidly; we're talking charging in minutes rather than hours. So supercapacitors could be the panacea to reduce the hours it currently takes to recharge an all-electric car – or offer a boost of speed to hybrids, something we’ll explain later in this article. “
Yawn, sure. Toyota doesn't own any significant share in Tesla for years now. Not that I see how that's a strike against them, aren't we all Toyota fans here?
I'll hold my breath for the flux capacitor to mature.
RichinRidgewood
New member
Toyota owning some of Tesla does not mean Tesla would do what Toyota wants them to do as can be seen in the below article.
The sale...
Toyota Sells Stake in Tesla | IndustryWeek
ElectroBoy
Banned
Nice try.
You’ve obviously never experimented with capacitors.
You’ve obviously never experimented with capacitors.
RichinRidgewood
New member
incorrect
Maybe click on the links and read the articles so you dont look so ill informed
Not sure how this is relevant to either the LC discussion or even the battery sidebar but you do you.
ElectroBoy
Banned
Huge spun-up flywheels were once promoted for automotive use. Not used.
Super duper graphene capacitors have been proposed for several years. Not here yet.
Lithium batteries are a reality and real improvements are being made. And powering electric cars now.
You read a couple of articles and still don’t know jack about capacitors.
