Lazy Dealer Tech

[Sungod]

In the past few weeks I have swapped the axles, replaced the wheel bearings, and put on new tires. Obviously it was time for an alignment. I took it to the local dealer because it was close. Normally I avoid the dealer, but their alignment price was about the going rate and they are close. I drop it off and an hour later I get a call that they couldn't align it because the tie rod ends were frozen and it was looking at a total price of $300 to replace them. I nearly hit the roof. I knew everything was tight and thought I had eliminated their opportunity for a parts call. I even thought about breaking the tie rods loose just in case, but thought that no one could be that lazy. I was wrong. I asked the service advisor if he thought I was an idiot or if his tech was just out to make some extra money. He assured me that I needed the parts. I asked him if the tie rod ends were frozen how the tech could possibly get them off to replace them. He just responded with 'that is what we need to fix your car'.

I went to pick it up and the service advisor said 'he tried heat and they were still frozen'. I was pissed and raced home and jacked up the front. I was nearly furious when I see the tie rod ends coated with lube and no signs of heat at all. At minimum the heat would have burned the lube off. Obviously the guy just sprayed it down and must have been a member of the 50lbs bench club. I grabbed my torch, some wrenches, and a pipe wrench. Two mins of heat and the jam nut turned with ease. A few more mins of heat on the tie rod end and it turned as well, and repeated the same process on the other side.

I plan on calling the service manager tomorrow. It amazes me how lazy and greedy people can be. I assume they employ parts replacers and not mechanics.

 

[honda_nos]

If you have documentation from their diagnosis, perhaps take some pictures or videos and go directly to the top. Find the general manager or owner name and simply snail mail the evidence to him/her.

 

[blaniac22]

Almost reminds me of the time my wife (then my girlfriend) was out of town and took her car to Sears and had the brakes done to the tune of a couple hundred dollars. Two-three weeks later the brakes were squealing, took it to a Sears in town and they told her her brakes were worn out.....

We ended up getting a "free" brake job, wrote corporate with copies of the receipts, got a letter of apology and free alignments for the life of the car and another free brake job good for a future date.

I never went back to Sears again.

 

[seanzorio]

Stories like these are the reason I dread having anything done to a vehcile that I can't do myself.

Mouting tires, alignments, etc. Anything where I have to depend on someone else always puts a knot in the pit of my stomach.

 

[blaniac22]

Stories like these are the reason I dread having anything done to a vehcile that I can't do myself.

Mouting tires, alignments, etc. Anything where I have to depend on someone else always puts a knot in the pit of my stomach.

I hear ya. That's why I try my best to educate myself on what really needs to be done when I take the vehicle in. I'm not an arse about it, but I let them know I at least have half a clue. Like the tire shop who said they road force balanced, but I watched them NOT road force the tires, and the place that told me they had to tear the dash apart on my camry to the tune of $1000 to replace the heater core when it's a 2-3 hour job at most.

I don't mean to hijack the thread - the OP knows his vehicle and the dealership probably underestimated that. I honestly might have been suckered in, or at least taken it elsewhere for a second opinion. At the very least I would have came here and ran through you guys:hatsoff:.

Point is - the more you know about your vehicle, the better prepared you'll be.

Sungod, let us know how it goes!

 

[MikeInNH]

It's not so much as being lazy...as being GREEDY. Many dealers around here the mechanics work on commission. They get a percentage for every part they sell. This is especially for the chain stores like Sears and PepBoys. But some dealers are doing it too.

Many years ago I took my truck into NTB for a alignment. The tech said they couldn't do the alignment because the ball joints were bad. I knew for a fact they were fine...So I told the guy ...."Show me."...he couldn't. When I sold the truck with after putting another 200k miles on the truck...the ball joints were still fine.

 

[Sungod]

The latest status is that since I didn't hear back from the dealer I called the Toyota customer service number. A good friend of mine that worked at another dealer service dept said that calls to Toyota regarding service issues were huge black eyes for dealers and they will jump on them.

The customer service guy sounded like he cared. He actually knew something about cars and that made it easy to explain the situation. I mentioned to him that they claimed to have tried to heat them, but when I got home they were covered in lube. He said without prompting 'I don't know what kind of lube they used, but most lube are flammable so I don't see how they could have applied heat'.

He said that the issue will be passed down from the top and that I will get a call in 3 days and he will follow up.

 

[blaniac22]

The latest status is that since I didn't hear back from the dealer I called the Toyota customer service number. A good friend of mine that worked at another dealer service dept said that calls to Toyota regarding service issues were huge black eyes for dealers and they will jump on them.

The customer service guy sounded like he cared. He actually knew something about cars and that made it easy to explain the situation. I mentioned to him that they claimed to have tried to heat them, but when I got home they were covered in lube. He said without prompting 'I don't know what kind of lube they used, but most lube are flammable so I don't see how they could have applied heat'.

He said that the issue will be passed down from the top and that I will get a call in 3 days and he will follow up.

Nice...looking forward to hearing the rest of the story.

 

[CXS]

Glad you didn't just walk away w/o saying anything. I had a dealer do my timing belt which was overdue when I bought it. They gave me a laundry list of stuff it needed when I picked it up. None of it was needed. One of the things was plugs, I wasn't surprised to see that since the PO ignored the belt. I pulled the plugs to find them like new and brought them to the service manager who stammered some non-sensical response as I told him their quest to make a couple bucks cost them a customer for life.

Be careful when anybody works on your truck!

 

[Sungod]

Glad you didn't just walk away w/o saying anything. I had a dealer do my timing belt which was overdue when I bought it. They gave me a laundry list of stuff it needed when I picked it up. None of it was needed. One of the things was plugs, I wasn't surprised to see that since the PO ignored the belt. I pulled the plugs to find them like new and brought them to the service manager who stammered some non-sensical response as I told him their quest to make a couple bucks cost them a customer for life.

Be careful when anybody works on your truck!

Sounds like you went to my dealer! It amazes me what these guys get away with. I guess it is because they have a Toyota sign out front that people agree to what ever they suggest. There must be a lot of suckers out there that just agree to whatever they say. It is bad enough that their parts are over priced, but then to gouge you at the same time is crazy.

I am with you that they are short sighted that they will risk losing a customer over a few dollars, but I guess the way they look at it is that they don't want us there anyway because we keep them from getting the customers they can gouge.

 

[MikeInNH]

Many of these dealers don't want knowledgeable customers. The dumb happy customer is their base. As long as you stay happy and dumb...they'll make a LOT MORE MONEY then with knowledgeable customers.

I drove 20 miles past one of those dealers to buy the exact same truck...

 

[450exc115]

Unfortunatly there are two problems with the modern dealerships. First is the flat rate pay system were each repair is spec out by hrs. The dealer pays the tech for the hours in the book and not the actual hrs it takes him to do the job. SO when he saw that the tierods wouldn't move and would cut into his 1 hr flat rate to do a alignment that takes 30 minutes he did feel like taking the 15 minutes of extra time because he may have to actually work 40 hrs for 40hrs of pay. This leads to the up sell, where they tell you a bunch of things wrong with the vehicle to accure more flat rate hrs. Heck if he can get 12hrs of pay for 8hrs of work then they will.

But don't blame the mechanic, they get paid dirt which is also why you mainly see young and the not so bright working at dealerships as it is tough to make a living wage doing that profession. Just ask my brother inlaw a 25 year tech with Ford/Saab and Chrystler. He's smarter than the job he does but can't brake the cycle.

 

[snowbrdr033]

Wow, this thread is amazing to read. Stealerships really are, in general, the same across the country. Sorry you had the bad experience and I know there are MANY others that have had them too, myself included. I'm interested to find out what happens when this is all over.

Keep us posted, please!!! :flamethrwoer2:

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Unfortunatly there are two problems with the modern dealerships. First is the flat rate pay system were each repair is spec out by hrs. The dealer pays the tech for the hours in the book and not the actual hrs it takes him to do the job. SO when he saw that the tierods wouldn't move and would cut into his 1 hr flat rate to do a alignment that takes 30 minutes he did feel like taking the 15 minutes of extra time because he may have to actually work 40 hrs for 40hrs of pay. This leads to the up sell, where they tell you a bunch of things wrong with the vehicle to accure more flat rate hrs. Heck if he can get 12hrs of pay for 8hrs of work then they will.

But don't blame the mechanic, they get paid dirt which is also why you mainly see young and the not so bright working at dealerships as it is tough to make a living wage doing that profession. Just ask my brother inlaw a 25 year tech with Ford/Saab and Chrystler. He's smarter than the job he does but can't brake the cycle.

The flat rate system has its advantages and disadvantages, often it makes the service writers greedy (they get paid commision at our dealership) and some technicians lazy (still flate rate for techs). It also hurts the technicians because warranty work often pays far less and the service writers don't always want to give the technicians more time to work on vehicles. The dealer may charge you close to $100 for the work, but the technician gets about 1/3 of that.

In the end, the system tends to make technicians lazy and parts replacers rather than trained profesionals. It sucks...

 

[Acidmeld]

The flat rate system has its advantages and disadvantages, often it makes the service writers greedy (they get paid commision at our dealership) and some technicians lazy (still flate rate for techs). It also hurts the technicians because warranty work often pays far less and the service writers don't always want to give the technicians more time to work on vehicles. The dealer may charge you close to $100 for the work, but the technician gets about 1/3 of that.

In the end, the system tends to make technicians lazy and parts replacers rather than trained profesionals. It sucks...

I couldnt agree more. Too often i see techs not willing even to do a job unless theyll make more time than it takes to do the job. Its an imperferct system that can make good techs greedy and lazy at the same time. :dammit:

 

[jow]

There is no end as to what you get charged for or needs ANYWHERE. I find my best defense is to schedule and stay with various needed jobs to know what is happening/needed or not. I ask my wife and mom to watch and take pics in stages to show their interest as if they know what is happening. It cost time but I have more peace of mind when work is seen or documented. You will not catch all the tricks but I feel they will be slower if you are watching/documenting. jow

 

[Desert Fox]

Dont forget about BBB.com
I have had good results when I have filed complaints with the better business bureau.

 

[Sungod]

There is no end as to what you get charged for or needs ANYWHERE. I find my best defense is to schedule and stay with various needed jobs to know what is happening/needed or not. I ask my wife and mom to watch and take pics in stages to show their interest as if they know what is happening. It cost time but I have more peace of mind when work is seen or documented. You will not catch all the tricks but I feel they will be slower if you are watching/documenting. jow

I agree. Normally I would have stuck around, but I got the 'we are busy and it could take 4 hours'. Having things to do it was easier to drop it off. I figured there was nothing they could call parts on. It would have been nice to have been able to confront the tech, but the way the system works is the tech is behind the wall in the shop you can not go into.

 

[MikeInNH]

Dont forget about BBB.com

The BBB is a JOKE...They are NOT a government agency and have NO POWER what-so-ever.

Many years ago the owner of this dealership in Upstate NY was the president of the local BBB. If you ever called up to check on the BBB...this dealership ALWAYS got high marks...and according to them they NEVER EVER had a complaint against them. Yet for some reason they were investigated by the NY AG office and later charged (and found guilty) of fraud. Something's NOT write there if you ask me.

 

[kobresia]

Am I off-base in thinking it should cost about $2k in labor to pull & replace the entire engine?

Pulling one or both manifolds should cost a fraction of that amount, unless they really can't be removed without pulling the engine, which would be exceedingly stupid design.