LED headlights and factory fog switch

[atalarico]

Hey all,

Bit of a weird issue going on. I installed some aftermarket LED headlights, and every time I use the factory fog light switch in my 97 Limited, it just turns on the brights (and no fogs).

I know I need to do the independent fog re-wire, but I can't follow the directions I've found elsewhere in the forum because I don't have a relay in the relay box for the fogs.

I followed the cabling and found what looks to be a relay near the battery. However, it's very much not a simple fuse type relay and it's a bunch of copper wire and stuff.

I can get a picture when I get home, but any ideas how to do this?

 

[TheDurk]

Hey all,

Bit of a weird issue going on. I installed some aftermarket LED headlights, and every time I use the factory fog light switch in my 97 Limited, it just turns on the brights (and no fogs).

I know I need to do the independent fog re-wire, but I can't follow the directions I've found elsewhere in the forum because I don't have a relay in the relay box for the fogs.

I followed the cabling and found what looks to be a relay near the battery. However, it's very much not a simple fuse type relay and it's a bunch of copper wire and stuff.

I can get a picture when I get home, but any ideas how to do this?

Is your factory switch on the stalk or the dash? If on the stalk, I don't see how that works without a relay in the factory spot. If on the dash, it's probably not factory (not sure about '97, but '99+ all definitely used a stalk switch.)

Are the fogs themselves factory? Are your headlights working normally? Did the fogs work normally before the LED headlights? Do they come on full-time, or only with headlights or only with low beams? Were the LED's plug and play or did you have to make any wiring changes? Do you know what fuse the fogs are on? Is it factory or add-on?Does the switch do the same thing if the fog fuse is pulled?

Definitely need more info and pics to make a stab at this one. I can see a cross-feed to the lows if the fog circuit tapped coil voltage there but not the brights--unless maybe they are drivelights and not fogs. Are the 'fogs'factory in the bumper or add-ons somewhere else? As you said, it might be better to wire the fogs from scratch but I'd like to understand the why of this cross-feed and I need to understand exactly how you are set up now with the fogs: switch, fuse, relay, wiring.

I have no idea what a 'fuse-type'relay is.

 

[atalarico]

Is your factory switch on the stalk or the dash? If on the stalk, I don't see how that works without a relay in the factory spot. If on the dash, it's probably not factory (not sure about '97, but '99+ all definitely used a stalk switch.)

Are the fogs themselves factory? Are your headlights working normally? Did the fogs work normally before the LED headlights? Do they come on full-time, or only with headlights or only with low beams? Were the LED's plug and play or did you have to make any wiring changes? Do you know what fuse the fogs are on? Is it factory or add-on?Does the switch do the same thing if the fog fuse is pulled?

Definitely need more info and pics to make a stab at this one. I can see a cross-feed to the lows if the fog circuit tapped coil voltage there but not the brights--unless maybe they are drivelights and not fogs. Are the 'fogs'factory in the bumper or add-ons somewhere else? As you said, it might be better to wire the fogs from scratch but I'd like to understand the why of this cross-feed and I need to understand exactly how you are set up now with the fogs: switch, fuse, relay, wiring.

I have no idea what a 'fuse-type'relay is.

Thanks for the reply! I'm attaching images to answer the questions.

1.) Yes, as far as I was aware, these are the factory installed "Hella" fog lights (the kind that you can't find a replacement lens to save your life!). They have a dash switch. Pictures attached of examples (not my specific 4runner, but mine are identical to these).

2.) Headlights worked normally before LEDs; LEDs work but possibly related the "hi-beam" indicator on the dash no longer lights up when I activate the hi-beams; the fogs worked before the LEDs; the fogs would only come on with low-beams on before; LEDs were plug and play; I don't know which fuse the fogs are on, but I can find out later. I don't know if they act normally if the fuse is pulled, but I'll figure that out.

3.) I'll have to add pictures of my relay box, what I think is the fog relay, and what I describe a fuse-style relay box tonight.

Thanks for the help!

 

[jman11788]

Here's the first thing you need to do...
Take out your LED's, put OEM bulbs back in for now
Go to Amazon and buy an HID kit or some PIAA bulbs
I'm saying this because i don"t think LED's put good output from what i've seen from everyones experience. I could be wrong though.
As far as your fog light problem goes I couldn't answer your question but you NEED a relay for them..

 

[jeremyc74]

Thanks for the reply! I'm attaching images to answer the questions.

1.) Yes, as far as I was aware, these are the factory installed "Hella" fog lights (the kind that you can't find a replacement lens to save your life!). They have a dash switch. Pictures attached of examples (not my specific 4runner, but mine are identical to these).

2.) Headlights worked normally before LEDs; LEDs work but possibly related the "hi-beam" indicator on the dash no longer lights up when I activate the hi-beams; the fogs worked before the LEDs; the fogs would only come on with low-beams on before; LEDs were plug and play; I don't know which fuse the fogs are on, but I can find out later. I don't know if they act normally if the fuse is pulled, but I'll figure that out.

3.) I'll have to add pictures of my relay box, what I think is the fog relay, and what I describe a fuse-style relay box tonight.

Thanks for the help!

That's not a factory installation. The factory installed fogs have a switch on the turn signal stalk, and the relay is in the box with the rest of the relays. That's a DIY installation.

 

[atalarico]

That's not a factory installation. The factory installed fogs have a switch on the turn signal stalk, and the relay is in the box with the rest of the relays. That's a DIY installation.

I misspoke, they were a *dealer* option. Regardless their origin, they're the most common fog lights on our generation Runners that was installed when the truck was brand new and before the owner picked it up. That's about all I know.

Yes, I know HIDs are better, but these LEDs do decently enough, and I'm not disappointed with their performance. When I bought them, drop in HID kits weren't an option.

Annnnnnnnyway, I'll post pictures of the relay stuff I see later tonight.

Thanks.

 

[jeremyc74]

I misspoke, they were a *dealer* option. Regardless their origin, they're the most common fog lights on our generation Runners that was installed when the truck was brand new and before the owner picked it up. That's about all I know.

.

I'll let someone with an earlier 4Runner chime in on this, but I'm pretty certain that isn't a Toyota fog light switch from any year. A dealer installed option would be using a factory switch and the factory relay location.

Edit: After a little googling I'm not sure if it is or isn't. There seem to be plenty of examples just like it, so maybe that's what they were doing for fogs at that point.

 

[psraff]

I kind of had the same issue with my Light Force and my High Beams. Most people up here will put our aux. lights on a 3-way switch. One direction they are "on". The other direction of the switch they will come on every time you run with your High Beams. (Helps with the Moose).

So when I built my HIDs and put them in, my High Beam option no longer worked (and noticed my "High Beam" light in the dash didn't work either). I just figured due to the HIDs, there wasn't enough resistance in the system to notice the change to High Beams (kind of like when you change to all LED blinkers you need to add a resister to get rid of the "Fast Blinker" symptom).

I never fixed it because with my HIDs I no longer need the extra light so I even removed one set of Light Force and gave them to my brother in law. The other set is setup with tinted Amber covers...

So if you really want to fix this.... That's a starting point.

 

[atalarico]

So, here's a photo of my main relay box under the hood, and another photo of what I think the fog relay might be, or might be connected to. I didn't have time to pry up the plastic cover, but basically it looks nothing like the relays inside the main relay box.

Any thoughts? I have everything to do the mod listed here Toyota 4Runner Highlander Electrical Modifications Fog Light Mod but I don't have the same relay box apparently.

Thanks!

 

[psraff]

I'm at work right now, and don't have time to reread this whole thread to remind me just what you want to achieve (just to turn on your fogs, or have them come on with your brights, or...)

That Hella relay is just a standard 30amp inline relay standard to any wiring harness. Two sides to it. One side you could consider the "signal power" and the other is to power the lights directly from the battery. (Sorry if I'm insulting you with this info, it's not my intent).

So if you want to just turn on your fogs independently of your headlights, run 12volts from your switch to the relay. That will closes the ckt in the relay to let power from your battery to the fog lights. If you want to turn them on with your brights, find the wire that powers your high beams and tap into that to the relay instead of the switch. If you want to do both, I think you need to upgrade that switch (it looks only on - off to me) to a 3-way.

 

[MTD]

Edit: After a little googling I'm not sure if it is or isn't. There seem to be plenty of examples just like it, so maybe that's what they were doing for fogs at that point.

These were all port install if I am correct. Our 98 has the same setup.

 

[jeremyc74]

These were all port install if I am correct. Our 98 has the same setup.

Ah ok. I'm used to seeing the '99+ setup where they have a dedicated fog light relay slot, and use the turn signal stalk. I didn't realize the electrical changes were that significant going from '98 to '99.

Op, do your fogs normally only come on with your headlights?

I'd be curious to see what happens if you pull the HEAD relay out of the main relay box.

 

[TheDurk]

I'm at work right now, and don't have time to reread this whole thread to remind me just what you want to achieve (just to turn on your fogs, or have them come on with your brights, or...)

That Hella relay is just a standard 30amp inline relay standard to any wiring harness. Two sides to it. One side you could consider the "signal power" and the other is to power the lights directly from the battery. (Sorry if I'm insulting you with this info, it's not my intent).

So if you want to just turn on your fogs independently of your headlights, run 12volts from your switch to the relay. That will closes the ckt in the relay to let power from your battery to the fog lights. If you want to turn them on with your brights, find the wire that powers your high beams and tap into that to the relay instead of the switch. If you want to do both, I think you need to upgrade that switch (it looks only on - off to me) to a 3-way.

Well, since he has no DRL's and all non-DRL 4Runners are switched grounds on the headlights, this may be backwards, if the dealers wire their lights the same way Toyota did the factory fogs. The factory fogs tap the HIGH beam wire on one side of the coil which provides power to the relay only when the lows are on getting it through the high filament. When the highs are on, that side is grounded, the high beam comes on, and the fogs stay off. Meanwhile, they run GROUND from the switch into the other side of the coil. (I've attached the factory Fog Light circuit from my (and psraff's) '99 4Runner. If the circuit is like this and he wants full-time fog availability, he has to run a direct GROUND from the switch to the side of the relay coil opposite from the 12V source--the high beam tap. Weird, I know, but that's how they did it.

There really is no substitute for spending the time to diagram the existing circuit, figuring exactly where the four pins of the relay go to, and then figuring out how to make it behave as you want it to. The first thing to do is pull the switch out from the dash, and see if it is providing 12V+ or ground when the lows are energized, and then when the highs are on. Then figure out which of the relay pins the switch goes to, and then figure out where the other side of the coil connects to. You will already know if the switch receives 12V+ only with lows on--it's connected to the highs. Presumably two of them (the power side) go to the lights and straight to the battery. That's the power side. The other two are the coil side.

Methinks it is possible somebody wired the switch not understanding this, so if the switch connects the high beam wire to the wrong place, you have your cross-feed.

 

[psraff]

TheDurk..... You just lit up a light bulb in my head. Your explanation reminded me when my brother and I were into sports cars. I had a GT4, he had a MK-IV... We both reworked out lights so we could run with all lights on at High Beam. You're right. Originally we turn the High Beams on and the "fogs" would shut off. We both had to find the relay and trace out the wires and make it do what we wanted.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[atalarico]

Wow! Lots of great responses.

Just to clarify, I really only want original functionality returned. So, the original functionality was that when my headlights were on (just low-beam, not high-beam), I could flick that little fog light switch and the fog lights would come on.

After the LED lights were installed, that switch just activates the high-beams and doesn't activate the fog lights in any capacity.

Make sense?