Lift/level and tire suggestions? - It's mine now!

[T4R_Finally]

The 5th gen was my wife's daily driver. I've been a pickup man for over 10 years now. I sold my Chevy last week and this weekend we bought a new Accord EX-L V6 - now her daily driver. The 4Runner is bone stock and it's about time for new tires at 47k miles. Before buying the car, I was figuring on just taking it down and putting on some OEM size Michelins. But now that it's my DD, I feel like it needs a mild (emphasis on mild) shot of testosterone. In other words, I'd like to put a little more aggressive tires on it and lifting it a little, if necessary, and taking those ridiculous side steps off of it that I never even use. I'm not an offroader so this is more of a change in look than anything else. For tires, something along the line of BFG K/O's or Nitto Terra Grapplers, stock rims, and the minimum lift/level adjustments necessary for a decent size tire to fit without any major cutting. Seems like I have seen quite a few post where people have gone to 285/70's.

Anyone have any suggestions or experiences? And/or even some pix and specs of what you have done? I have seen and paged through the lifted pix thread but most are more extreme than I need/want.

 

[1engineer]

Take a look at the Tire Fitment Guide link in my signature. Depending on what size tire you go with, lifting could or could not help with clearance issues. If you decide to "level" the front as many here have done, be advised that any load in the back will cause negative rake. You will also need to have your headlights re aimed.

 

[Okki]

Body Mount Chop (BMC) may be more needed than a lift, again, depending on what tire size you chose. If you want a "mildly" more aggressive tire, but still need great on-road handling (you mentioned you're not an offroader), than you may want to look at Cooper AT3's or Cooper ATP's. It's a great All Terrain tire, good warranty and minimal road noise increases due to a more aggressive thread pattern.

I'm running Cooper Tire Discoverer ATP LT265/70R17 on my Limited and did not need a lift or BMC. My next set of tires will be 285's and I have gotten a BMC and lift since, but that was not predicated on the current tire size/type.

Pictures of the tires pre- and post-lift are in my build thread (see my signature below).

Okki

 

[T4R_Finally]

Can someone expand on the body mount chop? I looked at the stickies and don't see it and I did a search but most of the matches seem to just be matches on the reference to it and not really detail about what it is or how to do it?

Okki, I've heard good things about Coopers but nobody around here sells them. I generally deal with one tire dealer here and his main brands are Goodyear and Michelin. He will sell Nittos and BFG's but always tries to talk me out of them. I had him put a set of Terra Graps on my Dodge pickup, against his advice, and they look and ride great.

I suspect losing the side steps alone is going to help me like the look a lot better. And I may just opt for a more leveled profile with whatever tire size would fit that.

 

[1engineer]

Can someone expand on the body mount chop? I looked at the stickies and don't see it and I did a search but most of the matches seem to just be matches on the reference to it and not really detail about what it is or how to do it?

Okki, I've heard good things about Coopers but nobody around here sells them. I generally deal with one tire dealer here and his main brands are Goodyear and Michelin. He will sell Nittos and BFG's but always tries to talk me out of them. I had him put a set of Terra Graps on my Dodge pickup, against his advice, and they look and ride great.

I suspect losing the side steps alone is going to help me like the look a lot better. And I may just opt for a more leveled profile with whatever tire size would fit that.

Here ya go: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/125003-body-mount-chop.html

This thread is good as we discuss the reasoning behind the design of the body mount. [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] posted some good pictures of the frame too.

 

[Okki]

Can someone expand on the body mount chop? I looked at the stickies and don't see it and I did a search but most of the matches seem to just be matches on the reference to it and not really detail about what it is or how to do it?

Okki, I've heard good things about Coopers but nobody around here sells them. I generally deal with one tire dealer here and his main brands are Goodyear and Michelin. He will sell Nittos and BFG's but always tries to talk me out of them. I had him put a set of Terra Graps on my Dodge pickup, against his advice, and they look and ride great.

I suspect losing the side steps alone is going to help me like the look a lot better. And I may just opt for a more leveled profile with whatever tire size would fit that.

Check out post #355 here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/60772-20-inch-wheels-limited-24.html#post1644121

It basically involves cutting "excess" metal from the front body mount and replating the gap so you have more clearance when the steering is at full lock.

You can order the tires online. Not sure if you have a Discount Tire near by, but the ATP's are specific to their distribution system. You could have them be delivered to you and then mounted/balanced at your preferred shop.

Okki

 

[T4R_Finally]

Here ya go: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/125003-body-mount-chop.html

Yeh, okay, well that ain't gonna happen. So, what are options for leveling and what size tire should I expect to be able to fit with no cutting or rubbing? Just the stock size?

 

[Okki]

Yeh, okay, well that ain't gonna happen. So, what are options for leveling and what size tire should I expect to be able to fit with no cutting or rubbing? Just the stock size?

as mentioned... Discoverer ATP LT265/70R17 worked just fine without lift or BMC on my limited.

 

[T4R_Finally]

Check out post #355 here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/60772-20-inch-wheels-limited-24.html#post1644121

It basically involves cutting "excess" metal from the front body mount and replating the gap so you have more clearance when the steering is at full lock.

You can order the tires online. Not sure if you have a Discount Tire near by, but the ATP's are specific to their distribution system. You could have them be delivered to you and then mounted/balanced at your preferred shop.

Okki

Okki, thanks, but I'm not interested in chopping any metal. If I were going for an offroad build, I might be willing to make such mods if necessary. Just want a slightly more aggressive look.

I know I can order tires online but I'd still have to have someone install them for me. For that matter, I could probably have my tire dealer order them for me and install them. But I try to work with them to stay in good graces. I own 4 vehicles and I rely on this guy for free rotations, oil changes, state inspections and other things that come up now and then. I'm sure I can find a tire that he is comfortable selling me (even though it may not be his first recommendation).

From the tire chart, it sounds like I should be able to go to a 275/70/17 without worrying about issues?

What does it take to level these vehicles, or get it closer to level? The only thing we'll even haul in this rig are suitcases and a couple of snowboards, at most. Other than that, groceries. On my pickups, I could level them by cranking torsion bar bolts. I doubt it's that easy on these, right?

 

[1engineer]

Yeh, okay, well that ain't gonna happen. So, what are options for leveling and what size tire should I expect to be able to fit with no cutting or rubbing? Just the stock size?

275/70/17 with no spacers or different offset and BS on the wheels. What tires do you have on it now? Usually an aggressive tread in stock side changes the "look" substantially. You can maybe get 285's on there (depending on brand) with no lift or BMC but the inner fender liner mod (easy) and the mudflap removal will usually have to take place. Caster might need to be adjusted to max too. The BMC is really no big deal though.

Tire sizes are "nominal" sizes. There are 265's out there that run larger than 275's due to design of tread and carcass. There are 285's out there that are the size of 275's, again due to the design. My Coopers are way over an inch wider than OEM tires and about 3/4" taller. So, look at the chart, pick a tire and then go to that tire manufacturer's website to get actual tire dimensions.

 

[BamaRunner]

Be advised that not all 275s are the same. My 275 BFG ATs didn't rub at stock height and didn't rub with my daystar 3/2 spacers. When I went to 275 kevlar MTRs they rub SLIGHTLY at full lock with the 3/2 kit. Go figure. It has been discussed on this board before that the MTR is apparently slightly larger than other similarly sized tires. I haven't dug deep enough to actually verify this it understand it. But I HAVE used it as mental justification that I need to upgrade from spacers to coilovers and rear springs!!!

 

[T4R_Finally]

I thought about changing rims but will stay with stockers. I don't have mudflaps. Original tires still on it and they are P265/70R17 Duelers.

Checked out Nitto and they don't have a 275 in the Terra Graps. Their 265/70R17 P Metrics are 31.57 tall and 10.79 wide, so they are not quite as tall and are a little bit wider than the tire fitment guide says the stock ones are (although I know when I bought mine, they were putting Dunlops on some of them, so I don't know which tire the fitment guide is referring to). Nitto has some LT's in that size but they are E-rated tires and I don't think I need that for this application. Similar with the Michelin LTX AT2's - about the same width and 31.7 tall and the LT's are E-rated. Duratracs may be a possibility.

Will keep looking around for tires - Goodyear not usually my first choice. But I am interested on finding out how to properly do the leveling.

 

[T4R_Finally]

Be advised that not all 275s are the same. My 275 BFG ATs didn't rub at stock height and didn't rub with my daystar 3/2 spacers. When I went to 275 kevlar MTRs they rub SLIGHTLY at full lock with the 3/2 kit. Go figure. It has been discussed on this board before that the MTR is apparently slightly larger than other similarly sized tires. I haven't dug deep enough to actually verify this it understand it. But I HAVE used it as mental justification that I need to upgrade from spacers to coilovers and rear springs!!!

Yeh, to keep it mild and less expensive with no cutting, I think my best bet is to remove the steps, level it out a bit and stay close to the stock size even if the tire I choose is a little different than what's on there now.

 

[Okki]

But I am interested on finding out how to properly do the leveling.

Spacers for a street queen; adjustable coils and shocks for detailed tuning and better long term performance.

Okki

 

[T4R_Finally]

Spacers for a street queen; adjustable coils and shocks for detailed tuning and better long term performance.

Okki

I will classify it as a street queen. 95% of my driving is around town and to/from the airport. Doesn't mean I'm afraid to go down a dirt road or drive in the snow when necessary - just don't do it that often where I live.

So, is there somewhere that sells the spacers that you can refer me to? Do they come in different sizes? Are they a big deal to install? I would likely take to the tire dealer and them to install the spacers, put on new tires, and do an alignment and re-aim headlights.

 

[Okki]

I will classify it as a street queen. 95% of my driving is around town and to/from the airport. Doesn't mean I'm afraid to go down a dirt road or drive in the snow when necessary - just don't do it that often where I live.

So, is there somewhere that sells the spacers that you can refer me to? Do they come in different sizes? Are they a big deal to install? I would likely take to the tire dealer and them to install the spacers, put on new tires, and do an alignment and re-aim headlights.

We all have different uses for our vehicles.. no need to apologize/explain yours. :hello:

Toytec spacers are pretty popular:
3" lift / leveling kit for FJ & 4Runner
Part Number FJ3-RSP
Price: $239.99

Not all that hard to install with the proper space and tools.

Okki

 

[proquip]

I will classify it as a street queen. 95% of my driving is around town and to/from the airport. Doesn't mean I'm afraid to go down a dirt road or drive in the snow when necessary - just don't do it that often where I live.

So, is there somewhere that sells the spacers that you can refer me to? Do they come in different sizes? Are they a big deal to install? I would likely take to the tire dealer and them to install the spacers, put on new tires, and do an alignment and re-aim headlights.

Given your description, you might benefit from a Bilstein shock upgrade in front, so you can level the truck (~1 in), and eliminate some of the braking nose dive associated with the soft OE front springs. I would strongly consider the upgraded shocks that allow for leveling before just doing spacers - might as well improve performance while you're at it.

Regarding the tires, FYI, I had very minor rubbing with P285/70/17's Toyo A/Ts on stock rims before my lift (almost completely eliminated with moving the front fender liner forward, which takes 5min to do). Many here have also upgraded to BFG ATs in 275/70/17's on stock wheels and not had any rubbing even without a front lift. Firestone offers the Destination A/T, which is very highly rated, as an C-rated LT 275. I think some here have upgraded to that and find it's a good balance for the 4Runner.

Not sure why BMC made it into this discussion since that's typically associated with aggressive 33" tires and more negatively-offset wheels.

 

[T4R_Finally]

Given your description, you might benefit from a Bilstein shock upgrade in front, so you can level the truck (~1 in), and eliminate some of the braking nose dive associated with the soft OE front springs. I would strongly consider the upgraded shocks that allow for leveling before just doing spacers - might as well improve performance while you're at it.

Regarding the tires, FYI, I had very minor rubbing with P285/70/17's Toyo A/Ts on stock rims before my lift (almost completely eliminated with moving the front fender liner forward, which takes 5min to do). Many here have also upgraded to BFG ATs in 275/70/17's on stock wheels and not had any rubbing even without a front lift. Firestone offers the Destination A/T, which is very highly rated, as an C-rated LT 275. I think some here have upgraded to that and find it's a good balance for the 4Runner.

Not sure why BMC made it into this discussion since that's typically associated with aggressive 33" tires and more negatively-offset wheels.

I was not very specific when I started the thread about how much lift or what size tires, so the BMC discussion is understandable.

Are you saying the Bilstein upgrade by itself would create some leveling in the front or using them along with spacers will help offset the ride difference by leveling with stock shocks?

I just went out to the tire dealer because I am getting new tires on my 3rd gen as well. I looked at the Duratracs and they are definitely way too much on the aggressive side for what I want. I want a tire that still rides pretty good but has more of an AT look to it at the sidewall and tread. I wanted that on my pickup as well and the Nittos did the trick. But I don't think Nittos are going to fit this application. As I said, I'll keep hunting tires but I'd like to get some tips on the leveling and where to get the stuff to do it. My tire dealer only buys lift and level kits from Rough Country and they offer nothing for 4Runners. So, they will install whatever I get, but they don't have anything they will sell me to do it.

 

[T4R_Finally]

We all have different uses for our vehicles.. no need to apologize/explain yours. :hello:

Toytec spacers are pretty popular:
3" lift / leveling kit for FJ & 4Runner
Part Number FJ3-RSP
Price: $239.99

Not all that hard to install with the proper space and tools.

Okki

Okki, thanks. Looks like it suggests 2.5" spacers for '10 and up? Is that gonna lift and level? Could I comfortably go with 275 or even 285's with this kit? Should I consider different/longer shocks at the same time or does using spacers keep the shocks at the same position?

What would a reasonble shop rate be do you think for installing a kit like this? In dollars or hours. I DIY some things but I doubt I have what I'd need to do this on my own.

Found this revtek kit - it comes with shocks - any thoughts on it or is it overkill for my application?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Revtek-432-...ies&hash=item56626b4de7&vxp=mtr#ht_1897wt_916

 

[proquip]

Are you saying the Bilstein upgrade by itself would create some leveling in the front or using them along with spacers will help offset the ride difference by leveling with stock shocks?

The Bilstein 5100 shocks for the front suspension have adjustable spring perches such that you can get leveling or lift from them, ranging from stock height, up to 2.5" of lift (other perch options are .85" or 1.75" of lift). You would not mix the new shocks with the spacers. For leveling, you would pick the .85" setting. I would ask your tire dealer whether they could replace your shocks - many tire shops advertise the sale/installation of shocks.

Forgot to mention that the Cooper AT3's are also offered in the load range C LT275s. It's another option that's a bit more aggressive looking than the Firestones ATs but still very road friendly.