Lift options without replacing UCA

[eddiebx]

BTW This looks really good and is the exact look I'm going for. :thumb:

Thanks! I painstakingly researched this setup so you don't have to, lol. :jk:

Glad I could provide you with an photographic example, I know how much of a pain it is trying to guess at roughly how it would look like

Thanks! Were you able to get your 4Runner aligned properly? Also, in the front you are using OME 883. Is there a reason why you went with OME 883 over OME 884? So the Front Bilstein's are set to "No Lift" 0" because the OME 883 is providing the lift correct?

I got a few PMs about this question so I thought I would post the answer here as well in case someone is searching this thread later on.

Yes the front coils are 883, not 884. The 883 and 884 are the same exact spring rate except the 884 is 10mm taller (thus slightly more lift). I went with the 883 because I was not looking to reduce the factory rake, just raise it up ~2" all around. The 5100s are on the 0" perch, so no lift is being gained through the perches.

I was able to hit +4 degree caster no problem, BUT I also have LR UCAs in the front set at the +2 caster setting. If I had to take a guess, I think the factory UCAs would be enough to get you guys into at least +2.5 degree of caster (minimum factory spec). I came to this conclusion because I have plenty of adjustment left in the LCA cams, so if you figured you minus the +2 degree from the LR UCAs, this leaves me at +2 caster and whatever is left via the LCA cams. If you're not shooting for +4 caster, it's probably worth a shot to try and see what you can get before pulling the trigger on aftermarket UCAs.

 

[Nom4Runner]

Thanks for posting that Eddiebx!

As for the rear springs/coils I'm most likely going to go with the SWAY-A-WAY 1.5″ LIFT REAR COIL SET from wheelersoffroad (only company I can find that sells them) but can you think of any other alternatives to use with OME 883's in the Front? I'm trying to stay away from spacers. :wave:

I have a little bit to decide because apparently the front Bilstein 5100's (24-196499) are on backorder everywhere still...

 

[dacunn]

I put on OME 884 in front, toytec in rear with bilsteins set at zero lift. 884's only gave me 2 1/2 inch lift in front, so thought I could get by without UCAs. Got it aligned, and he could only get 1.7 left, and 1.9 right caster (left was below minimum setting spec). Truck drove ok, but didn't track down road like I wanted. A few weeks later, ordered Light Racing UCAs and top plate spacers to add the extra 1/2 inch of lift. Installed, and aligned. Now have 3.8/4.0 caster. Truck drove ok before, but 100% better now. Tracks down road like on rails. My opinion now, after having lifted and trying it both ways is UCA are a mandatory purchase for any front lift.

 

[gm350reratliff]

It's the shops that people take it to. Your average discount tire, NTB, sears, and other big box stores do not hire quality technicians. Independents might. There ARE good techs at dealerships, but you have to find them. And then, people like me, will hunt them down and steal them to come work for me. The typical alignment tech will only get paid .6 to .8 of an hour to align a vehicle. That includes the time it takes to test drive the vehicle, rack it on a lift, check tire pressures, set the alignment heads, jounce the vehicle and set win toe. And then agpfter that, they have to go on another test drive. Getting paid less than an hour for most vehicles works out ok. But throw in aftermarket components, lifted or lowered suspensions, aftermarket wheels that they have to be careful not to scratch, and that .8hr just became unprofitable for the tech.

People think that $150 is highway robbery for alignments. That's what I charged at High Tech if you had a 0modified vehicle. There were additional charges if you had over 20" wheels. Even more if I had to adjust non oem components. You could easily be charged over $200 for a ONE time alignment. I'm sure I lost plenty of sales but I also gained twice as much when they came back because NTB couldn't do it or messed something up.

What blows my mind is that the alignment process isn't that difficult to understand. It just takes an understanding technician to deal with it.

This^^^

This is how the shop I worked for did it. We would charge per job. At the minimum, an alignment was $85 but we adjusted until it was spot on AND drove good. Some people didn't get it and were pissed when it took longer than an hour. Fortunately, the owner still lets me use the rack when I need it.

The process I used was, try to set everything spot on. Can't get some of them? Ok, camber and toe take importance and try to get caster as close as you can. Sometimes it is a compromise with camber and caster but camber is the important angle. The other thing to watch was cross caster. This is the difference between the two caster angles. If its too far off it will cause the vehicle to pull which will cause tire wear even if all other angles are in spec. 88-98 chevy "k" series seem to be affected by this the most. On the other hand, if everything is in spec and all other aspects of the vehicle check out ok but it still pulls after alignment, you can move the caster around to get the vehicle to drive straight.

With my setup in the signature, before the SPC UCAs, I couldn't get more than 2° caster. It drove straight but was a little touchy at speed or if the road had any crown to it. After the SPC UCAs, I was able to get over 4° caster using the +2 initial setup. It holds the line on the road much better in all situations now.

 

[eddiebx]

Thanks for posting that Eddiebx!

As for the rear springs/coils I'm most likely going to go with the SWAY-A-WAY 1.5″ LIFT REAR COIL SET from wheelersoffroad (only company I can find that sells them) but can you think of any other alternatives to use with OME 883's in the Front? I'm trying to stay away from spacers. :wave:

I have a little bit to decide because apparently the front Bilstein 5100's (24-196499) are on backorder everywhere still...

One alternative that comes to mind is just using your factory front springs and setting the front perch to 1.75" on the 5100s. This would be pretty close to the 883 springs. Not sure about actual spring rates differences, but the 883s do not feel too not much stiffer than the factory springs based on my highly calibrated butt dyno of course

 

[Nom4Runner]

Hmm so I was looking at an OME Spring/Coil lift using Bilstein 5100's and I'm just confused now.

I was looking at OME 2884/2885 in the front and OME 2895/2895E in the rear. The problem I'm running into is TRDparts4u says 2895/2895E do not fit 2010+ 4Runners but other places say they do. Also, I saw this... "important: ome Front coils can only be installed with ome nitrocharger strut and coil seats".

TRDparts4u (says it doesn't fit 2010+ 4Runners)
2895
Old Man Emu REAR Coils (2) FJ Cruiser & 4Runner OME2895
2895E
Old Man Emu REAR Coils (2) FJ Cruiser LIGHT LOAD OME2895E

Wheelersoffroad (says it fits 2010+ 4Runners)
2895E
Old Man Emu 2895E Rear Coil Set

ARB Manual
http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/accessorizeYourRig/toyota4Runner.pdf

 

[Nom4Runner]

So I got the rear Bilstein 5100's in today. I ordered the Front Bilstein 5100's and ToyTec "Superflex" rear Coils over the weekend. Got a call from Shockwarehouse and ToyTec, both products are on backorder... FML. Haha

I decided to go with Bilstein 5100's up front set to 2.5" and Bilstein/ToyTec "Superflex" rear coils at 2". so a 2.5/2 lift. If I have trouble getting close to min alignment specs I'll buy OME 885 Front Coils and SPC UCA's.

 

[thebwlife]

So I got the rear Bilstein 5100's in today. I ordered the Front Bilstein 5100's and ToyTec "Superflex" rear Coils over the weekend. Got a call from Shockwarehouse and ToyTec, both products are on backorder... FML. Haha

I decided to go with Bilstein 5100's up front set to 2.5" and Bilstein/ToyTec "Superflex" rear coils at 2". so a 2.5/2 lift. If I have trouble getting close to min alignment specs I'll buy OME 885 Front Coils and SPC UCA's.

My rear superflex coils gave closer to 2.5-2.75" - also I would agree that the 885's should be installed on OME struts.

 

[Carlosdgarcia92]

Too much misinformation in this thread.

1. Of course you can lift your vehicle WITHOUT aftermarket UCA's. They are NOT necessary. They will, however, give you more adjustment and in some cases improve driveability.
2. Caster setting does NOT determine tire wear.
3. Yes, lifting does change suspension geometry but anything up to 2 1/2" lift does not require anything special.
4. OEM UCA's are the most reliable and require the least amount of maintenance under normal operating conditions. Rock crawling or high speed desert running is a different world and requires specialized components made for a specific purpose with the understanding of increased maintenance.

Here is a basic primer on what each alignment setting does:

What if you're going with 3 inches of lift? Then what do you need? Aftermarket UCA?

 

[ccoats38]

why don't you want UCA's? do you like having to replace your tires due to uneven wear? do you like your truck wandering all over the road?
any time you lift, no matter how small a lift, you are changing your suspension geometry. The stock UCA's only have so much ability to compensate for that change. This is why aftermarket UCA's are necessary - they are designed to have a greater range of adjustment to accommodate suspension geometry changes, allowing for alignment to remain within spec.
here is my alignment report (complete with the tech's comments) after loading up my 5100's to 1.75 before I added UCA's

if you think you can get away without UCA's, I wish you luck. After you go through a set of tires in 7,000 miles, look me up, I'll probably be selling my Total Chaos units after I upgrade to long travel.

Are you at 7,000 miles yet and how much are you looking to get for your total chaos lift?


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[CMTAZ]

Eibach Pro Truck Kit !!!

one and done. 2.75" front lift / 1.0" rear lift.

Much better ride and handling.