Lift w/ KDSS

[wfo9]

Funny you speak about facts but you continue to regurgitate rumors and try to pass them off as fact.

1. Yes KDSS attaches to the LCA via what is sometimes referred to as a knuckle (looks like a closed fist)

2. You said there were many documented cases of cross-threading, I looked and couldn't find any. Additionally my first hand experience tells me it's very difficult to cross-thread if proper technique is used. I've done this a few times.

3. The warning you stated "most people cross-thread the bolts" is now about tension / clearance? Your grasping at straws here buddy.

4. Previous work at dealerships? Your hyperbole (story) changes again, it's dealships that are stripping the bolts... Did you hear this from your same buddy who is the "only tech in the region who knows how to work on KDSS".

5. A little hyperbole? It was a flat out out falsehood to spread your anti-KDSS gospel.

You have lost so much credibility with anything related to KDSS due to "hyperbole" anfter "hyperbole".

According to you:
1. KDSS is not reliable- KDSS IS More reliable than power steering
2. Only for mall crawlers- Definitely not true
3. Nearly impossible to install a lift - PROVEN over and over again to be Not true
3. Mystery mechanical wonder that is more complex than nuclear fission (hyperbole) - not true

Here are some facts for you:
1. Kdss is not compatible with long travel suspension. Which we all know are such a huge fan of.
2. Kdss allows for more articulation compaired to stock sway bars
3. Kdss allows for flatter cornering compaired to stock sway bars
4. Kdss has been used for years on LCs and Lexus vehicles
5. Installing a lift on a kdss vehicle should only take 30min longer that a non-kdss.

.

Wow, you really are angry about this and are trying to make it look like I've said thing that I never did.

I will admit that I have used some exaggerated statements like "royal PITA" or "most people" those were bad choices. I should have said things like "some people" and "can be problematic". But, this is a pretty casual place focused on stuff that simply is not very important, so I did not realize I was being taken so literally. When I talk with my friends about trucks, cars, racing... We tend to emphasize things a little too much. It's how we talk about our passions. We make statements along the lines of ... "that bolt was a MF to get off". I forget this is not always a friendly place.
And just to call you out on being a hypocrite. Outside of the ridiculous double hyperbole above... You stated in this thread...

Full disclosure that extra 30min can be a ball buster

Is it really that bad?

I'm not going to respond to all of your misinformation, but I will touch on a few.

1. It is not a knuckle... The term knuckle refers to the hub and supporting assembly/spindle. Most swaybars attach to this. The KDSS swaybar does not. It attaches to the LCA.

2. I used the term dealerships... as an example. I'm not blaming dealerships for all KDSS problem. Again man. read this thread and others. I'm not making stuff up. Why would I do that?

Let me state this one more time... to be clear. And to get the KDSS zealots like you off my back. I think KDSS is awesome for the right use case. For overlanding/offroad camping or whatever you want to call it....which you seem to be all about.... It's pretty much ideal. It offers nice road manners and load carrying characteristics, along with good articulation at crawl speeds offroad. It's a very nicely balanced setup. And I would have trouble passing it up for this use case.

It's also great for many other things, but it's not for everyone. It has some downsides. Those downsides include.
- potential long term reliability (we are talking over 100k for sure here). Problems are rare overall, but when they do happen, it's pretty expensive and problematic to get diagnosed and repaired.
- misc quirks, noises clunks leans, these are all minor issue, but they do bother some people. Most don't seem to notice it.
- Not ideal for mid speed offroading. Not terrible, but you can feel the stiffness and it does bother some people.
- It raises the hassle factor a bit when it comes to lifts and a few other aftermarket suspension components. It also limits you on how much travel can be utilized in the rear.

If I was buying a new truck.. I would be torn on wanting it or not. For what the 5th gen is (A pretty off-road capable SUV with a big body).. I think it is a great match. Now, for used.. more of a project truck... that I'm going to modify and wheel the crap out of over time..

I just don't understand why the world has turned into a place where people can't see pros and cons of things. It's like we are in polarization vortex where everyone runs to their corners and only wants to hear sunshine being pumped up their ass 24x7. The slightest mention of a negative gets them all angry.

 

[wfo9]

[MENTION=149664]304tmt[/MENTION]

Thanks for useful contribution to this thread.. But can you edit your post and remove the image. It makes the page difficult to read.

 

[Sleeter]

[MENTION=149664]304tmt[/MENTION]

Thanks for useful contribution to this thread.. But can you edit your post and remove the image. It makes the page difficult to read.

Lol now you think you're a mod.... I nominate you to be the captain of this circus! :crazy:

Do everyone a favor and review your posts to see if you could be presenting information incorrectly. Its clear to everyone who has been around for more than a few months you have A spirited opinion of KDSS. Many of us know your typically Exaggerating, but the new guys asking questions don't have that experience and take you literally.

 

[wfo9]

Lol now you think you're a mod.... I nominate you to be the captain of this circus! :crazy:

Do everyone a favor and review your posts to see if you could be presenting information incorrectly. Is clear to everyone who has been around for more than a few months you have A spirited opinion of KDSS. Many of us know your typically Exaggerating, but the new guys asking questions don't have that experience and take you literally.

"Do everyone a favor and review your posts to see if you could be presenting information incorrectly. " right back at you....

Not exaggerating... but I can see how it could be taken that way when read with emotions...

I don't think I'm a mod. LOL That is a thankless job and appreciate the effort from those like [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] who do it... I have contributed to this forum and helped many people out. As people like [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION].. I'm sure I have pissed a few people off along the way. Sometimes it is not all sunshine and participation trophies and sometimes I'm even wrong. Yes, I can totally admit that. When I'm wrong I own it. It would be much easier to sit back and just take information and then take pot shots at people from behind a keyboard where I don't have to man up to my attitude.

In this thread I admitted and re-emphasized that it might be possible to swap coils without removing the front swaybar. If that is the case.. then a lift becomes much easier job with KDSS. I simply can't remember if it is always possible to do both sides that way. I'm not wrong or making stuff up about the hassle and awkwardness front swaybar or bolts stripping being a pretty common problem. And like I originally stated.. there is probably a magic technique to getting it on with 0 struggle... it's just not repeatable for me yet, and I consider myself above average when it comes to mechanical aptitude.

Occasionally, you will hear things that don't make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Instead of thinking the worst and moving to personal attacks... try to use some critical thinking and see if the information could be useful to others. I'm sure you have leveraged some info from this "circus" as you call it, in your "outboundoverlanding" adventures...

Go create some instagram or overlanding blog stories. It has to be more fun than this. I'm stuck inside today or I would be out doing something much more productive and feel way less grumpy.

 

[honda250xtitan]

I'm sure you have leveraged some info from this "circus" as you call it, in your "outboundoverlanding" adventures...

Go create some instagram or overlanding blog stories. It has to be more fun than this. I'm stuck inside today or I would be out doing something much more productive and feel way less grumpy.

Lmao if i see one more person call their camping and 4wheeling trips "overloading" :gun5:

I can't wait to make my """""BUILD""""" thread though. Much building, all the boltons....With over and land thrown in there occasionally, for Forum points and stuff. It's science.

opcorn:

 

[Gclark949]

I installed my King lift yesterday on my KDSS 4Runner. Strapped the front piston with a ratchet strap before jacking anything up. With it strapped, the KDSS 4 bolts came out without any tension. To reinstall, simply lowered it back to the ground and started with passenger side. It was easy and driver side was not very hard either. As long as you are threading things by hand you will not strip anything. The rear KDSS was easy too. I had 3/8" lean prior to the lift and so far, no lean after the lift.

 

[wfo9]

I've got a 2016 TEP and upgraded the front shocks to the TRD Pros. I set both of the spring perches to the high position and have zero lean. I also added .5" top spacers. One technique I used when installing was to do the drivers side first. Then on the passenger side once I had the shock in I used a 3' bar as a lever to move the KDSS sway bar up into position in order to bolt it to the LCA.This made the job a cinch and only added 10min total with no struggling etc. also once I had the bar and bracket close I clamped the bracket to the LCAand moved it around with a tapered punch in order to align the clearance holes on the bracket to the threaded holes on the LCA.


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That seems like a good technique. Sort of what I did last time.. the clamp really helps with the tension. How did you attach the 3' cheater bar to the sway bar? There is just a nub exposed on the end.

 

[jpachard]

That seems like a good technique. Sort of what I did last time.. the clamp really helps with the tension. How did you attach the 3' cheater bar to the sway bar? There is just a nub exposed on the end.

Hey I actually used it to move it down by hook in the pry bar under the LCA. I really should have snapped some photos as how I'm describing it probably isn't making a lot of sense!


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[DesertCanyons]

Lift with KDSS

This thread is really helping me understand what I am about to undertake, a lift on my KDSS equipped 4Runner Trail. I've learned a few things from both [MENTION=137555]Sleeter[/MENTION] and [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] in spite of their apparent argument here. Not most, but everyone here, (exaggeration intended) must be hoping they'll give it a rest and agree to disagree. :brick:
If not, I may be the next target...
Looking at the stock suspension under my truck, I'm trying to figure out why I can't install a long travel LCA and long travel shocks. Help me understand this if you can.
I can see how easy it must be to strip the threads of the two bolts on the KDSS sway bar if the sway bar is pushing on the bracket and LCA. You've got to hold the sway bar up enough to release any push of the bolt in the holes or you'll be installing the bolts at an angle and this leads to stripping of threads.
I did see an easy place to strap the sway bar up to the frame above. I'll need some wider ratchet straps than the narrow tie down straps I have now.

 

[Sleeter]

This thread is really helping me understand what I am about to undertake, a lift on my KDSS equipped 4Runner Trail. I've learned a few things from both [MENTION=137555]Sleeter[/MENTION] and [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] in spite of their apparent argument here. Not most, but everyone here, (exaggeration intended) must be hoping they'll give it a rest and agree to disagree. :brick:
If not, I may be the next target...
Looking at the stock suspension under my truck, I'm trying to figure out why I can't install a long travel LCA and long travel shocks. Help me understand this if you can.
I can see how easy it must be to strip the threads of the two bolts on the KDSS sway bar if the sway bar is pushing on the bracket and LCA. You've got to hold the sway bar up enough to release any push of the bolt in the holes or you'll be installing the bolts at an angle and this leads to stripping of threads.
I did see an easy place to strap the sway bar up to the frame above. I'll need some wider ratchet straps than the narrow tie down straps I have now.

In order to utilize the a long travel system travel you need new LCAs, none of which are compatible with KDSS.

 

[wfo9]

Nobody makes an aftermarket LCA compatible with KDSS.

Technically, you could probably fabricate a custom long travel LCA that could accommodate the KDSS swaybar. But it would be difficult and very problematic. The leverage ratios would most likely be off and it would probably not work very well and limit travel (which is the entire point of a long travel setup)

With a standard linked style swaybar... it connects to the suspension via the spindle, so you still have both the frame and suspension connections availbale. but with long travel LCAs (+2 or 3.5" width), you would still need a wider swaybar (which nobody currently makes).

Long story short, long travel front = no option to run a front sway bar. It's not ideal at all, but if off-road is your main use case and your top priority... you probably learn to live with it and drive cautiously on road. The wider track and improved leverage ratio along with adjustable dampening coil overs... should help some with stability.