Looking for Input- KDSS with Lift

[Special-k]

Looking for Reviews and Input- KDSS with Lift

Hey Guys, trading in my 2010 Limited and debating between TRD Pro or TEP w/KDSS.

I would prefer a lifted 4R for various reasons and I'm looking for input from those who have already lifted their KDSS equipped vehicles. I've read the various threads on what the lift does to the KDSS system and what additional parts may or may not be required depending on total height lifted. If you do you have KDSS and a lift I would very much appreciate your insights, items such as the following of specific importance:

- Lift specs. Height, parts used, vendor. Did you use a leveling kit for the passenger side?

- On-road handling after lift? *Very important* to me as this is my main reason for considering KDSS.

- Durability after lift. Do you feel any sense of issue with the KDSS system or other suspension components? Mostly concerned in reference to this post by 05Rrunner who is extremely knowledgeable in this space- http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/183732-possible-add-trd-pro-suspension-6.html#post2189543

Any and all reviews you can provide are very much appreciated. I have had a hard time getting quality information from my dealer and unbiased opinions from vendors. That's where I trust this forum and the knowledgeable group on it to provide guidance.

thanks
Kris

 

[kapp_badbloodz]

Don't get KDSS if you lift. Its a pain in the ass and doesn't really help all that much. At 3" and over you start running into issues with parts contact each other and maxing out the effectiveness of KDSS in general.

I have KDSS and am kicking myself for the extra 3-5k it probably cost as an option that just gets in the way and weighs down my truck. Just some food for thought...

 

[cjacob316]

Hey Guys, trading in my 2010 Limited and debating between TRD Pro or TEP w/KDSS.

I would prefer a lifted 4R for various reasons and I'm looking for input from those who have already lifted their KDSS equipped vehicles. I've read the various threads on what the lift does to the KDSS system and what additional parts may or may not be required depending on total height lifted. If you do you have KDSS and a lift I would very much appreciate your insights, items such as the following of specific importance:

- Lift specs. Height, parts used, vendor. Did you use a leveling kit for the passenger side?

- On-road handling after lift? *Very important* to me as this is my main reason for considering KDSS.

- Durability after lift. Do you feel any sense of issue with the KDSS system or other suspension components? Mostly concerned in reference to this post by 05Rrunner who is extremely knowledgeable in this space- http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/183732-possible-add-trd-pro-suspension-6.html#post2189543

Any and all reviews you can provide are very much appreciated. I have had a hard time getting quality information from my dealer and unbiased opinions from vendors. That's where I trust this forum and the knowledgeable group on it to provide guidance.

thanks
Kris

I have a lift and KDSS, I've put 25k miles on my vehicle in one year since the lift. KDSS gets most of it's value on the road. If you drive as much as I do, then it's worth it, the bigger sway bars are definitely nice. It does have a slight lean that I haven't bothered adjust for yet, once I replace the rear spacers with springs I will add a leveling spacer to the rear and crank the front up a little to level it out, but it's on the driver side, not passenger. My lift is in my signature. I have no issues with parts contacting or anything "weighing me down" whatever that means on a 5,000 lbs vehicle. Most people here don't go over 3 inches of lift because the KDSS is the least of your worries as you go higher. As for cost, I paid less for mine than what most SR5's were listed for around here, so I don't feel like I paid extra for anything on my vehicle.

Frankly, get whatever vehicle you want, don't let people on here sway you, it's your car, not theirs. Why even get rid of the Limited?

 

[mcarey86]

Don't get KDSS if you lift. Its a pain in the ass and doesn't really help all that much. At 3" and over you start running into issues with parts contact each other and maxing out the effectiveness of KDSS in general.

I have KDSS and am kicking myself for the extra 3-5k it probably cost as an option that just gets in the way and weighs down my truck. Just some food for thought...

lol, you paid 3-5k for KDSS?[emoji33] [emoji33]

I think it's worth it, unless you're doing some serious LT build.

There are only a handful of trucks on here that would have had, or did have to, get rid of the KDSS system due to suspension work.

That said, there are a quite a few more owners who claim they didn't get KDSS because of the reasons above, while they are ironically running lifts that are completely compliant with the KDSS system.

To me, and more users here than I think would like to admit, the on road manners alone are worth it and you're likely bout going to be building something that would actually require the removal of it.

 

[jbjones85]

Kdss + icon stage 5. (2.5 front 2 rear) no issues whatsoever and no regrets. KDSS really helps onroad where I spend 90%+ of my time. Would do it the same if I had to do it over. The install is a little more work but not much. I did mine myself and didn't have any issues really.

 

[jrandom]

IMO if your going for an off-road monster...buy a 3rd gen if not a 1st gen, and plow dough into that.

What do you plan on doing with your suspension is what you should be asking yourself.

* If you are planning on swapping out everything, LCA's/UCA's/Coilovers/Linkages/Springs/adding Lockers all that crap and more, then buy yourself a SR5 or a base Trail. Chances are your removing your swaybars or adding sway links anyway.

* If your thinking of just adding some coilovers and springs (maybe UCA's or one or two other things) buy a TEP -- My choice

* If you are going for spacers buy a TRDP :biggrin1:

There's 2 cents for ya

 

[High_Country]

Get the KDSS. Not sure where that first response was getting his info. I think it was like a $1750 option. Stock, the thing drove awesome on the road - almost (dare I say) sporty in the corners. I added Toytec ultimate coilovers and am at about 2 inches of lift and have noticed NO degradation in handling or performance.
Invest in quality parts designed to work with the KDSS and you'll be happy.
All the other posts (besides #2) in my opinion are spot on.

 

[Special-k]

Thanks all to those who replied so far! Great info. For me, I'm looking at a 1.5" rear and 2" front lift, I did not clarify that in my first post.

Get the KDSS. Not sure where that first response was getting his info. I think it was like a $1750 option. Stock, the thing drove awesome on the road - almost (dare I say) sporty in the corners. I added Toytec ultimate coilovers and am at about 2 inches of lift and have noticed NO degradation in handling or performance.
Invest in quality parts designed to work with the KDSS and you'll be happy.
All the other posts (besides #2) in my opinion are spot on.

Spot on, just looked at the invoice and it's 1750. Great reply, thank you. Love to hear lift did not change handling on-road.

IMO if your going for an off-road monster...buy a 3rd gen if not a 1st gen, and plow dough into that.

What do you plan on doing with your suspension is what you should be asking yourself.

* If you are planning on swapping out everything, LCA's/UCA's/Coilovers/Linkages/Springs/adding Lockers all that crap and more, then buy yourself a SR5 or a base Trail. Chances are your removing your swaybars or adding sway links anyway.

* If your thinking of just adding some coilovers and springs (maybe UCA's or one or two other things) buy a TEP -- My choice

* If you are going for spacers buy a TRDP :biggrin1:

There's 2 cents for ya

Yup, that was my thought flow and ended up on TEP based on what I have done with my current Gen5 and where I would like to go with a new one.

Kdss + icon stage 5. (2.5 front 2 rear) no issues whatsoever and no regrets. KDSS really helps onroad where I spend 90%+ of my time. Would do it the same if I had to do it over. The install is a little more work but not much. I did mine myself and didn't have any issues really.

Great reply, just out of curiosity did you consider any of the various Billstein set ups? Also, did you go billet or tubular UCA?

Asking because I started looking at Icon but having a hard time justifying the price against Billstein. I was looking at stage5 and up since those sets include the required bar for KDSS

I have a lift and KDSS, I've put 25k miles on my vehicle in one year since the lift. KDSS gets most of it's value on the road. If you drive as much as I do, then it's worth it, the bigger sway bars are definitely nice. It does have a slight lean that I haven't bothered adjust for yet, once I replace the rear spacers with springs I will add a leveling spacer to the rear and crank the front up a little to level it out, but it's on the driver side, not passenger. My lift is in my signature. I have no issues with parts contacting or anything "weighing me down" whatever that means on a 5,000 lbs vehicle. Most people here don't go over 3 inches of lift because the KDSS is the least of your worries as you go higher. As for cost, I paid less for mine than what most SR5's were listed for around here, so I don't feel like I paid extra for anything on my vehicle.

Frankly, get whatever vehicle you want, don't let people on here sway you, it's your car, not theirs. Why even get rid of the Limited?

Awesome, thank you. My Limited has the Toyotech Ultimate (3/2) lift but just does not handle well on road. My other car is an E92 M3 with COs and lots of upgrades which is super planted. The 4R just feels like it's always trying to rollover in corners, especially off-camber ones. Literally scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and I've been tracking my M3 for 5yrs. I know removing XREAS was part of the issue but even after doing a zero point calibration I still experience the 4R engaging traction control in corners all the time. I'm probably driving it like an M3 which is clearly not a good idea but I get the feeling KDSS and a shorter lift will go a long way

 

[jbjones85]

[MENTION=107389]Special-k[/MENTION]

I did look at other options but I got a great deal on the Icons.

I didn't get the "special bar" that is "required" and I have no issues. Honestly I pieced my kit together. I did the tube UCA's front coils, rear shocks, and rear springs from ICON and kept stock links for now with the plan to upgrade in the future. I couldn't justify the cost of the billet links when there are many other options out there for way less $$.

 

[Pkniland]

I don't think you will go wrong either way. I had an 11 without it, and a 15 with it. While I do plan the OME 3" lift, it is never going to be a crawler so I was not all that concerned about maximizing wheel travel. Where I really notice it is HWY on/off ramps. Its much more planted that my 11 was

 

[Special-k]

[MENTION=113556]High_Country[/MENTION] and [MENTION=55765]cjacob316[/MENTION]

Looking more into your lifts they appear to be very similar....

In the rear you used a new damper and 1.5" spacer, did you keep the factory spring?

In the front looks like you kept the OEM UCAs, is that also correct?

thanks!
Kris

 

[Blue15]

Had my TE KDSS lifted, rides much better IMO on road, off road what little trail riding ive done has performed as expected for a 4R, great.

I went with bilsteins all four, front @ 1.75. And a 1" rear cornfed spacer. The driver side spacer is manufactured a bit taller to eliminate driver lean, and no lean anymore. Stock on everything else.

I sit at 36" front and 37 1/2 rear. The rake i keep with this set up has worked great for passenger and gear load, never a reverse rake when loaded.

I was a worry wart before lifting mine, now that its done, OMG! Looks great and ride great.

 

[High_Country]

[MENTION=113556]High_Country[/MENTION] and [MENTION=55765]cjacob316[/MENTION]

Looking more into your lifts they appear to be very similar....

In the rear you used a new damper and 1.5" spacer, did you keep the factory spring?

In the front looks like you kept the OEM UCAs, is that also correct?

thanks!
Kris

I kept the factory rear springs with the spacers from Toytec. Yes, new bilstein 5100's all around (including in the coilovers up front).
I wanted to have a bit of factory rake when done so that when I did load up the car for camping and off-roading I would level out. It has worked out great so far. The improvement in ride and performance with the 5100's was surprisingly noticeable and very pleasant.
I have the OEM UCA's up front. I was worried about the alignment but it drives great. There is a good thread on here about aligning lifted 4runners. I read it, understood it, printed it out, highlighted the pertinent bits, and took it to an alignment shop that I trusted. I gave him the print out and told him what I wanted to accomplish.

I am very happy with my results. No sacrifice in on the road comfort or stability and increased ground clearance and capability.

 

[sandcrawler]

i'll add another "KDSS cornering on-road is just as great; overall ride is vastly improved" to this.

i'm lifted ~3" front/~2" rear with ICON extended travel coilovers, tubular UCAs, "2-inch" rear coils (more like 2.5", really) and rear resi shocks. the ride is much more composed/controlled. it was/is a dramatic improvement over the OEM suspension.

i've experienced no downside to lift+KDSS, and have no issues to report thus far. KDSS works just the same as it did pre-lift, with the additional benefit of the premium shocks and coils.

also: i didn't install an adjustable panhard/trac bar (as is now recommended, evidently) and haven't had any issues; nothing is making contact that i'm aware of.

 

[cjacob316]

[MENTION=113556]High_Country[/MENTION] and [MENTION=55765]cjacob316[/MENTION]

Looking more into your lifts they appear to be very similar....

In the rear you used a new damper and 1.5" spacer, did you keep the factory spring?

In the front looks like you kept the OEM UCAs, is that also correct?

thanks!
Kris

Yes I kept the oem rear springs. Honestly, I'm not completely happy with it. I increased the spring rate in the front but not the rear, it feels a little off for me and I plan to replace with new springs soon.

No I have not replaced the UCA's yet. I will though. When it's windy it gets a little squirrely, honestly I think the KDSS is the main reason it stays as stable as it is driving on the interstate all day.

 

[Special-k]

Great Feedback guys! Hoping to hear from others

[MENTION=126426]Blue15[/MENTION]- can you clarify about the front drivers side spacers/top mounts? I see you had the 5100s installed, do they come with a spacer for that side or taller top mount? Assuming you went with the full CO set up with their recommended front springs?

 

[Special-k]

[MENTION=113556]High_Country[/MENTION] Sorry to bother you again, but did a fair amount of searching and couldn't find those recommended alignment settings, any chance you can share a link or PM the documents(s)? Greatly appreciated!

 

[Blue15]

Great Feedback guys! Hoping to hear from others

[MENTION=126426]Blue15[/MENTION]- can you clarify about the front drivers side spacers/top mounts? I see you had the 5100s installed, do they come with a spacer for that side or taller top mount? Assuming you went with the full CO set up with their recommended front springs?

No, I have 5100 adjustable front set @ 1.75. Stock spring and everyting else in front, no front spacer. My rear has 5100's with conrfed 1" rear coil spring spacers on stock springs, the rear driver spacer is 0.200" taller to compensate for driver sidelean. Its works prefect, no drivers side lean.

 

[Cire2]

I have a 2010 TE with KDSS, 2.5" Toytec Ultimate lift, and LR UCAs. The ride on and off road is excellent. Huge difference without KDSS as far as body roll around turns. The lift has been installed since 2012 and 30k miles. The only potential issue i have is my power steering pump makes noises during sharp turns.

Just traded in my 2015 TEP with KDSS for an F150 due to the uncomfortable pleather seats. Other than the seats, the ride was very similar to my 2010 TE, minus my noisey Duratracs.

I also had a 2003 V8 Sport. It also had a Toytec Ultimate lift inplace of the orginal XREAS, and the body roll was very apparent.

-Cire

 

[RunnerPDX]

2016 TEP with KDSS and Toytec BOSS lift with TC UCAs. No lean, no leveling kit on passenger side. Handles great in the turns at speed. Went with K02s for shoes and those made the difference. I've had Duratracs but if you highway drive, you'll grow tired (well until you get back in the snow or mud because they are awesome there)

For the height you want to lift, KDSS is a must. If you're going higher, skip it. The lift install will test you with KDSS especially if you're going fully adjustable CO assemblies and UCAs. Spacers will be easier...but if you're going to lift, might as well invest in the CO's with UCAs for a waaay better ride.