Looking for some SAS insight

[Dous]

:jaw: Dunno about that much. haha. I know it wouldnt be cheap by any means. But I havent gone a fully priced out anything yet. Party because Im indecisive of how I want to build this.
IF you dont mind, a very noobish question. What am I looking at to link the front? I know what Ive considered doesnt add up to near $6000, so I gotta be missing something haha.

Coilovers/ORI's - $1300
Gears/Install Kit- $300
Brackets- $250
Bushings/Joints- $350
Locker- $500 (Or more, I sort of made a middle ground here)
C/O Towers- $100
D-Shaft- $300
Wheel Bearings- $100
New U-Joints- $40
Material for Links- $150
Locking Hubs- $120
Steering Box- $60
Steering Shaft- $150
Steering Lines- $100
Pitman Arm- $50
T-Rods- $150
Tube Inserts- $100
Hi-Steer Arm/Hardware- $65
New Brakes- $175
Brake Lines- $60
Axle Housing- $150
Bolts- $40
Consumables- $100
Frame Plates- $100

That leaves us at $4800
And this is the bare minimum IMO

You will probably want Chromoly Shafts (Add $500)
Probably want an upgraded diff cover (Add $120)
Might want upgraded U-Joints (Add $300)
You will want bigger tires (Add $1000 at least)

Can you set up gears? If not you will be paying for labor?
So it adds up quickly

 

[nevada]

Toyota axles present some challenges. The mini truck axle is short compared to stock width of a 3rd gen, which requires large spacers which is a little bit ghetto. Bottom line, either a toyota axle or a D44 will need upgrading in order to put up with big tires and off road abuse. If you want to go bigger (D60, 14-bolt, etc), the price goes up, but so does the reliability factor.

ive been running an 85 front, with an 87 rear for YEARS. so that's a 3" difference. no silly spacers. ive never once noticed the width difference.
IMO its a non issue. the 3rd gen being a bit wider might be more noticeable, but even then, you wouldn't need to MATCH that width, just get a bit closer, using small spacers. most people are using them anyway for tire/fender clearance.

Original thought was to build it with 44s then upgrade to 60s when I happen across a good deal. Ultimately, I want big boots, maybe 37s, or 39s and big horsepower.

As for installing the axle, thinking of 3-link up front on air bags instead of coils. ( I work as a truck mech, thought of air susp is somewhat appealing, haha)

Couple other questions, what gen of waggy would I be looking for , or did they all run the same?
And, steering. Best option would be to find a 2nd gen ifs steering gear and shaft and swap it in?

forget links. go with leaves. simple and effective.

get the axles in there and use them. then when you get the 60's, swap it in. its an easy swap then, BOLT IN.


fyi, ive been running a v8, 38's and spooled Toyota running gear for over 10 years now. ive busted 3 stock birfields, nothing else. running longfields now, without concern.


I have a 60 in the works...

 

[J-man]

Coilovers/ORI's - $1300
Gears/Install Kit- $300
Brackets- $250
Bushings/Joints- $350
Locker- $500 (Or more, I sort of made a middle ground here)
C/O Towers- $100
D-Shaft- $300
Wheel Bearings- $100
New U-Joints- $40
Material for Links- $150
Locking Hubs- $120
Steering Box- $60
Steering Shaft- $150
Steering Lines- $100
Pitman Arm- $50
T-Rods- $150
Tube Inserts- $100
Hi-Steer Arm/Hardware- $65
New Brakes- $175
Brake Lines- $60
Axle Housing- $150
Bolts- $40
Consumables- $100
Frame Plates- $100

That leaves us at $4800
And this is the bare minimum IMO

You will probably want Chromoly Shafts (Add $500)
Probably want an upgraded diff cover (Add $120)
Might want upgraded U-Joints (Add $300)
You will want bigger tires (Add $1000 at least)

Can you set up gears? If not you will be paying for labor?
So it adds up quickly

Yea huge difference, haha. C/O aint cheap. I was guessing closer to $2000 +-$500. BUT , thats using used axles, and not building them. Just , gettin them in. Thanks for this, its helping get better prepared.
One good thing is I can do gears, actually doing the bearings and setting up the diff in my explorer. Which will likely be going for sale.... to buy another t4r... in better shape for a DD. :biggrin2:

 

[J-man]

ive been running an 85 front, with an 87 rear for YEARS. so that's a 3" difference. no silly spacers. ive never once noticed the width difference.
IMO its a non issue. the 3rd gen being a bit wider might be more noticeable, but even then, you wouldn't need to MATCH that width, just get a bit closer, using small spacers. most people are using them anyway for tire/fender clearance.

forget links. go with leaves. simple and effective.

get the axles in there and use them. then when you get the 60's, swap it in. its an easy swap then, BOLT IN.


fyi, ive been running a v8, 38's and spooled Toyota running gear for over 10 years now. ive busted 3 stock birfields, nothing else. running longfields now, without concern.


I have a 60 in the works...

Sooooooo, would you be suggesting a toy axle , or use the 44 I have? You have a point, by using springs its an easy swap to 60s. And both toy and the gm 44 I have are RH. So I guess it doesnt really matter huh.
I thought someone had mentioned with leafs, you have steering clearance issues? I could have interpreted it wrong.
(Dont mind if Im rambling, just got home from work, and its 430am hah)

 

[KidVermicious]

I thought someone had mentioned with leafs, you have steering clearance issues?

Depends on your axle and steering setup. You'll have crossover steering of some sort, and if it's not set up right the drag link and/or tie rod can bind against eachother or the leaf pack as the suspension cycles.

 

[white_n_slow]

I thought someone had mentioned with leafs, you have steering clearance issues? I could have interpreted it wrong.

FJ80 axle is the only one that will really give you trouble running leafs. There are no traditional high steer arms available for that knuckle and the stock steering setup puts the tie rod right where your springs want to go. With other axles, there may be some interference or binding, but it can usually be addressed by using high steer arms and fiddling with rod size/shape.

Any other axle, I would say leafs are the simplest and cheapest way to get the job done.

 

[white_n_slow]

ive been running an 85 front, with an 87 rear for YEARS. so that's a 3" difference. no silly spacers. ive never once noticed the width difference.
IMO its a non issue. the 3rd gen being a bit wider might be more noticeable, but even then, you wouldn't need to MATCH that width, just get a bit closer, using small spacers. most people are using them anyway for tire/fender clearance.

'85 front axle = 55" wide
'86-95 rear = 58" wide
96+ rear = 61" wide

A three inch difference, or 1.5" on either side, might not be too noticeable, but I will stick with my original assessment that a 6" difference or running 2" spacers is a little bit ghetto.

 

[IBallEngineer]

FJ80 axle is the only one that will really give you trouble running leafs. There are no traditional high steer arms available for that knuckle and the stock steering setup puts the tie rod right where your springs want to go.
Any other axle, I would say leafs are the simplest and cheapest way to get the job done.

If cost is the determining factor, then yes that axle will give you trouble. There is a guy in Canada who modifies the knuckles for high steer. I had mine done locally, neither way is cheep. I wanted the extra 3" going from the 62 axle to the 80 axle. High pinion was icing, although the ring gear is way smaller.

There is a D44 high pinion too! But if 60's are the ultimate plan, plan for that.

 

[Gerdo]

Insight?

Figure that it is going to cost twice what you think, take twice as long as you think, you will have twice the issues that you think you are going to have. twice as hard as you think and will be twice as hard to find everything you need.

If you think it is going to quick, cheap and easy, you are kidding yourself.

 

[nevada]

Sooooooo, would you be suggesting a toy axle , or use the 44 I have? You have a point, by using springs its an easy swap to 60s. And both toy and the gm 44 I have are RH. So I guess it doesnt really matter huh.
I thought someone had mentioned with leafs, you have steering clearance issues? I could have interpreted it wrong.
(Dont mind if Im rambling, just got home from work, and its 430am hah)

the 44 you have now will be way too wide.
get a waggy 44, or a toy front.

the only steering clearance issues ive ran into is the tires touching the leaves at full lock. I do not run spacers, but they would help some.
its a wheeling rig, the tires rub a but, I don't mind.

'85 front axle = 55" wide
'86-95 rear = 58" wide
96+ rear = 61" wide

A three inch difference, or 1.5" on either side, might not be too noticeable, but I will stick with my original assessment that a 6" difference or running 2" spacers is a little bit ghetto.

maybe. but there are many people on here that are running spacers for clearance reasons, why would this be any different?

run 1.25 or 1.5" spacers on the front, and forget about it.

 

[white_n_slow]

maybe. but there are many people on here that are running spacers for clearance reasons, why would this be any different?

run 1.25 or 1.5" spacers on the front, and forget about it.

Sure. And I'm not saying you shouldn't use a mini axle on a 3rd gen, just that 6" is a pretty big difference in length. Even with 2" spacers, you're still coming up a little short. I'm not anti-spacer, I have them on my 4runner and I have used the mini axle with great success (but it was in a 22r mini truck). Just something the OP should consider in his decision. At 60" IIRC, and a bit stronger, the 60-series axle would probably be a better choice for a 3rd gen if you wanted to go the Toyota route. Both axles have weak brakes by semi-modern standards. That probably applies to the D44 too, I would guess.

 

[J-man]

Miss a day and soo many posts to catch up on. haha.

Im thinking about leafs. I have leafs, that could/may work. Now that KidVermicious cleared up my confusion on steering. Itll be better on the pocket book, and "should" get me rolling quicker. I dont think I NEED a link susp, I dont rock crawl. Although Id like to, not many place around here for it. I just really wanna do a SAS. So I could look into links in a year or two.

 

[J-man]

ive been running an 85 front, with an 87 rear for YEARS. so that's a 3" difference. no silly spacers. ive never once noticed the width difference.
IMO its a non issue. the 3rd gen being a bit wider might be more noticeable, but even then, you wouldn't need to MATCH that width, just get a bit closer, using small spacers. most people are using them anyway for tire/fender clearance.

forget links. go with leaves. simple and effective.

get the axles in there and use them. then when you get the 60's, swap it in. its an easy swap then, BOLT IN.


fyi, ive been running a v8, 38's and spooled Toyota running gear for over 10 years now. ive busted 3 stock birfields, nothing else. running longfields now, without concern.


I have a 60 in the works...

Ill measure up I guess and see what I have for a width on my runner. So what the difference are. I know I wouldnt wanna be much narrower, my fiance already rolled it last year. But, she did good. Landed back on the wheels, and when I got there, made sure she and the runner were good and drove it up to my shop to fix !

When you say you have 60s in the works, D60s or 60 series axles? ( stupid question, but wanna check if were on the same page. )

the 44 you have now will be way too wide.
get a waggy 44, or a toy front.

the only steering clearance issues ive ran into is the tires touching the leaves at full lock. I do not run spacers, but they would help some.
its a wheeling rig, the tires rub a but, I don't mind.

maybe. but there are many people on here that are running spacers for clearance reasons, why would this be any different?

run 1.25 or 1.5" spacers on the front, and forget about it.

Yea, not to worried about being wider. Besides, 60s are gonna be over width to right ? lol

 

[J-man]

I'm a fan of Toy axles personally. Hi-steer is cheap and easy, Longfields are strong and easy to install, lots of factory gear ratio's if you stick 8". If you like leafs then I'd look at an FJ60 axle, 9.5" ring gear and mini truck outers with 4Runner like width. Yes you have to flip it or get a gear drive case, but $300 on an adapter shouldn't break an SAS build. Or if you want to spend some more and go links/radius arms, an FZJ80 axle is a good choice. Very strong stock birfs, wide, and uses a high pinion 8" that came with an e-locker in some trucks.

Im kinda casually looking through kijiji, random citys on craiglist, ebay, google. apparently fj60/80 axles are far from plentiful lol. havent checked on here though.

 

[nevada]

Ill measure up I guess and see what I have for a width on my runner. So what the difference are. I know I wouldnt wanna be much narrower, my fiance already rolled it last year. But, she did good. Landed back on the wheels, and when I got there, made sure she and the runner were good and drove it up to my shop to fix !

When you say you have 60s in the works, D60s or 60 series axles? ( stupid question, but wanna check if were on the same page. )



Yea, not to worried about being wider. Besides, 60s are gonna be over width to right ? lol

yes, dana 60. im having it narrowed, not going to run it full width. that's way too wide. im not having it narrowed to Toyota width, it will be about 64" WMS. I have a 70 rear, but since I cant get the gears I want, i may end up just getting another 60 for the back. I haven't decided yet.


well, in regard to what I said about it being too wide, I meant compared to the rear. assuming you don't swap the rear out also.

 

[Snowy21]

I would look on car-part for an 80 axle, they seem to be relatively cheap and plentiful on there. 60's are tougher, if no luck on car-part, try i8mud or Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 FJ62 Parts For Sale . I was going to go for a 60 axle on my 4Runner until I stumbled into my Tacoma with a custom housing already

 

[J-man]

yes, dana 60. im having it narrowed, not going to run it full width. that's way too wide. im not having it narrowed to Toyota width, it will be about 64" WMS. I have a 70 rear, but since I cant get the gears I want, i may end up just getting another 60 for the back. I haven't decided yet.


well, in regard to what I said about it being too wide, I meant compared to the rear. assuming you don't swap the rear out also.

Oh K, cool. Yea I guess a full size axle on a mini truck would be pretty wide.
Oh yea, If I was gonna swap in 60s I would do both axles, Same with the 44s.
Thats kinda my biggest dilemma. Im undecided what axles I wanna run and how I wanna set it up. I might know where a mini truck axle is, just have to ask next im back home. :frusty:

 

[J-man]

I would look on car-part for an 80 axle, they seem to be relatively cheap and plentiful on there. 60's are tougher, if no luck on car-part, try i8mud or Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 FJ62 Parts For Sale . I was going to go for a 60 axle on my 4Runner until I stumbled into my Tacoma with a custom housing already

Thanks ! Ill start checking them out.

 

[downpour11]

used pro rock 60s $7500 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Dana 60's, TWF wheels, Pitbull Rockers - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Or my buddy has his truck for sale…

87 Toyota buggy 4.3 propane 5sd duals steering Rockwells dbl beadlocks

 

[J-man]

So, Ive been thinking about it, And have half a plan. I want the v8 swap. Im gonna use the 350 carb I have. And was thinking of getting a toy gear case and adapt it onto the th400. Still a bit undecided on axles. Im probably gonna use the 44s I have now, swap in with springs. Get wheeling. Save up and link 60s in later. ( if there is a later haha) I want this thing to be a beast, and probably gonna take it to mud drags some day ..... some day....


So am I crazy ? hah