Lotus CV Axles are here!

Chromoly axles for the FJ Cruiser and 4th gen 4Runners.

Probably won't have product photos up until after the first of the new year but if you (or know of someone) that's chomping at the bit to get your hands on a set of Lotus Development Chromoly axles for the FJ Cruiser/4th Gen 4Runner let me know. Price is $565/each and are in stock now.
 
Hey Jay,

What part of Colorado are you located in? Do you have a group that you usually wheel with? If not, you're welcome to come with us sometime if you'd like. We always like meeting new people and another 3rd gen is always welcome in my book. Most of our group lives in the Denver Metro area, but we get out to trails all over Colorado. You can check the trail planning thread on rm4x4.org for upcoming runs.

Jeff
 
You have front locker and 35's? My stock CVS have 230k miles and still haven't broke. Wheeled hard every month. The test is 35's locked.
I suppose locked on 35s is a test but not so sure about it being the test. I've never wheeled on 35s and have broken most of my axles on open diffs running 33s. Don't you think it's more likely that you have better wheeling technique, style of driving, or the smarts to know when to say "when" that's afforded you so many miles without breaking something?

I learn every time I go on a trail and since I'm not dead yet I'm not done learning. When you going wheeling next? It would be cool to wheel with another local. Send me a PM so we can keep the thread from getting cluttered with trip planning details.
 
Kinda reviving the thread with a question. Would the best course of action if I wanted to run these was to install an Aussie front locker at the same time? Seems like that would make the front end bulletproof.
 
Kinda reviving the thread with a question. Would the best course of action if I wanted to run these was to install an Aussie front locker at the same time? Seems like that would make the front end bulletproof.

Bullet proof might be a bit generous use of words. It's more realistic to consider the LD axle's outer joint to be better strength matched under severe joint angles. They are without a doubt stronger, more than 6 times the strength of OEM, but we didn't overbuild them so the ring gear or pinion has no choice but to fail first. If you have a moment of hard wheeling, the likeliness of failure is most common joint, then axle shaft, then differential, then t-case. If you introduce wheel wheel spin then the shock loads can really reach in and break stuff.

An ARB up front would be great if only for the stronger spider gears. If you can swing it, the addition of the upgraded axles might save you from some trail repairs.

If you don't mind bringing a couple of spare rebuilt OEM axles the half shafts are really not that hard to change out. If you go with a LD axle they swap in just like an OEM axle so there's no need for any other tools than what you'd normally use. After you've swapped a few, 30 - 60 mins on the trail isn't unheard of for a repair.

Also keep in mind that when you lock the front you actually make it easier to break your CVs. About half of the axles I've broken before swapping in the LD axles were from locking the front.

If you decide to get the axles send me a PM I'll see about getting you free shipping (lower 48).

Hope that helps.
 
Yes, the boots are upgraded as well. The outer joint (chomoly cage and race) as well as the inner and outer boots are new parts. The inner, mid, outer bars are OEM as as are the housings for the inner and outer joints.

The new boots are designed to allow more joint angle before the convolutions (ribs) start to rub and abrade itself apart. At high joint angles the convolutions can still make contact with each other but the life span of the boot is greatly extended over OEM since they should not be making contact on low flex areas such as the highway. Like all boots, the more severe the joint angle the faster the boot is going to need replacing. If the convolutions are rubbing while on a level and straight road your lift is too high for the boots and it's much, much more likely that you are going to blow up or separate your CV joints while flexing the suspension.

Side note. OEM boots actually last longer than our boots when there is no lift and the CV has a near zero joint angle. With a lift though an OEM boot may only last a few thousand miles with a lift that's pushing the joint angles. We wish that there was a boot that lasted as long as the steel in the axle but since we haven't found a way yet we just resolve to know that a boot replacement is an inevitability and part of the cost of being an off-roader at heart.

Also for those of you that haven't had a torn boot yet, on any CV axle, when you tear a boot the most important thing is to keep the dirt out so even wrapping/sealing the torn boot with a plastic bag will help much more than doing nothing. Most of the grease will still fling out but if you don't have too far to go you might get lucky enough to avoid the heat build up that would also create more damage to the joint.
 
i just read through this entire thread and wow, i cant believe someone would get so much backlash for bringing something to the market at an okay price point. yes. they are much more expensive than OE/OEM ones, but thats for a reason. if you cant see this, enjoy your sub 100-100 dollar CVs and the downtime associated with changing them when they break. lets also not forget this is a driveline part that sees LOTS of stresses at anything but ideal angles.

id like to eventually upgrade to these (reliability is my #1 priority in my rig), and i have some questions:

-you mention that your boots are not OEM rubber. what are they? if not silicone, are they comparable to silicone? if not, why was silicone not used?
-why was the inner star portion of the CV not upgraded as as well? i see someone broke the inner star on this page. that would seem to be the Achilles heel of these axles, no?
-if i were to buy these and break them after the 1 year warranty mark, what are my options? am i SOL or do you offer some sort of deal to existing customers?
 
Sorry about the delay in replying. Replying got lost in the shuffle.

We normally use hytrel, silicone, or neoprene for the boots. Often changing by the buyer's specifications. The different materials all have their pros and cons. Hytrel is likely what Toyota OEM boots are made of. It's strong, wears well, and is resistant to tears. For the backyard mechanic hytrel can be a difficult material to work with since it doesn't conform as much as silicone or neoprene and at the very least you'll probably need a specialized tool such as an Oetiker Stepless to crimp the band clamps.

Silicone is good with abrasion resistance, is very flexible, and wears well with increased joint angles where self abrading (those really severe joint angles where the convolutions are rubbing on each other while driving down the highway) can kill a neoprene or hytrel boot in a few thousand miles. They are however intolerant of nics, cuts, and punctures. Once the silicone gets damaged it tends to open up in a hurry. Silicone boots are also expensive at nearly $100 per joint (roughly $200 for both joints on a single half shaft).

Neoprene is tolerant of punctures and often will keep working long after a nic or small cut but doesn't have the self abrading resistance of silicone. It's a good material to work with as a DIY'er since the material will accept different clamps and still get a good seal. They also tend to dry out and crack faster than hytrel or silicone. In rough terms maybe 10% - 40% shorter life? Hard to say with all the variables.

So what's the best one? Well it all depends on your preference. I tend to run the hytrel and neoprene on my personal rig. I have near a 2.75” lift up front and tend to need to replace my boots every couple of years depending on mileage or if I do some hard wheeling and break another axle. When the broken axle comes off I replace both the boots as normal maintenance. As far as I know there's no perfect boot, they all are still wear items. In my personal experience the hytrel and the silicone have faired the best but I carry the neoprene boot kits as a spare part on my rig since they are easier to work with in the field.

We don't upgrade the inner joint for a couple of reasons. The inner joint, the tripod, doesn't have the inherent weakness at higher joint angles like the outer joint. The inner joint tends to be weakest if the front suspension is biased too far in the droop direction. Some rigs are set up with coils that are so stiff and/or so much lift that the rig is riding with droop even on a level surface. The more bias to droop in the IFS the more the bearings within the inner joint are pulled to the edge of the cup housing. That's why you often see rigs blow up the inner joint when they are nose up on an obstacle. The front suspension unloads and “lengthens” the half shaft. The bearings are pulled to the edge of the cup where there is less material to support the torque loads.

When it comes to an OEM outer joint, it's actually quite strong at stock ride height when there is virtually no joint angle. It's mainly a problem when the steering is at full turn along with suspension droop. That's when the inner guts of the outer joint start to actually pry on itself. It puts huge pressures on the edge of the cage and race. Often resulting in a cracks that don't show symptoms until later in the trail when the broken pieces have the chance to work themselves into other parts of the joint causing crunching or lockup.

This is why just the outer joint in our axles (and not the inner) are machined with deeper, thicker, and chromoly steel. And why we build them to handle so much more pressure before failure. Depending on how a driver is minding the CV joint angles and wheel speed they are nearly the same strength as the bar and inner joint when they would be at their strongest in a flat ride height. We could machine new inner joints too but the cost would go way up and the overall benefit really isn't there. For example if the inner joint is “bulletproof” you still have the mid bar and the outer bar that can fail. If you upgrade all the components in the half shaft then you move your break point inside the differential. So in the end it's a matter of taking the entire system into consideration and engineering for the overall performance. You'd also be approaching or exceeding the cost of an RCV axle which have a lifetime warranty.

If you break an axle after a year then yes, they are out of warranty and yes the sting of the broken part is going to be real. However you should still get in touch with us since we'd like to try and help out on a case by case basis. This might mean getting you a discount on a replacement or maybe trying to help out in some other way.

As far as some people being unhappy with the necessary evils when it comes to the cost of manufacturing. We understand. Off-roading is an expensive past time. We get it, that it can be frustrating when the difference between getting to have the higher strength part (or not) comes down to the current budget. We'd give them away if we could do so sustainably because we also love the community and the people in it. I can't tell you how often I've run into good people helping out with trash pickup, trail maintenance, and being good stewards of the land in general. They are often off-roaders in built up rigs that dedicate a part of their life to something truly worthy. But until one of us wins the mega millions we're stuck selling them at as low a price we can while still staying in business. Thanks for understanding and for the questions! Let us know if you have more questions.
 
thank you! im still assessing my needs if i really need these as i do more overlanding than wheeling, but they should would be nice to have.
 
The whole point if the post is that if you beef up your axle you are just moving the weak point to your diff what is so hard you all to get that in your head....

Like i said did they test this with a 6x stronger Diff.... That is I am talking about R&D.

Axles I have one ever broken one and that was because the boot was ripped open and I drove it like two years then it was popping and I took it wheeling.

So the point of the post was hey I just paid a 1000 bucks for some 6x stronger Axles and now I ****ed up my diff and got to drop 3000 in it damn that was a lot of money spent for some axles.

I don't make anything I just test it and break it that is what I do for a living test things to there breaking point just like the super 35 for jeeps you see how long they lasted in the market....

Rant off
Has anyone used these upgraded 1000 dollar axles? Upgrading the weak point in a cv does without a doubt shift it somewhere else. I wonder if any of you have found out what that is? The diff would be my guess but any real world experience?
 
Has anyone used these upgraded 1000 dollar axles? Upgrading the weak point in a cv does without a doubt shift it somewhere else. I wonder if any of you have found out what that is? The diff would be my guess but any real world experience?

Probably going to be the inner CV Joint or the Differential that grenades now before the outer joint. I guess I would rather blow a CV that can be changed out in 30 minutes on the trail, rather than the differential. I have seen a few guys with axles snapped off in the differential around. That's a catastrophic failure to me, that would eliminate your ability to drive out even in 2wd.
 
Probably going to be the inner CV Joint or the Differential that grenades now before the outer joint. I guess I would rather blow a CV that can be changed out in 30 minutes on the trail, rather than the differential. I have seen a few guys with axles snapped off in the differential around. That's a catastrophic failure to me, that would eliminate your ability to drive out even in 2wd.

I've had guys break their dana 44 or 60 axle/diff on the trail and basically takes weeks to get that vehicle off the trail. Trying to fix a broken diff in order to wheel your vehicle off the trail is something no one wants to do.
 
I've had guys break their dana 44 or 60 axle/diff on the trail and basically takes weeks to get that vehicle off the trail. Trying to fix a broken diff in order to wheel your vehicle off the trail is something no one wants to do.

It's not the diff that goes. It's the intermediate shaft and ADD tube.

It's less then an hour to pull the front diff and throw the outer CV cups back on. Then you have a 2wd drive rig that can get off the trail under it's own power. It happened to a buddy of mine last year on the Dusy. 9 miles in. He was able to drive out under his own power and we he needed help I strapped him to my rig. He was running the same CVs I do.

Lotus never redesigned the inner joint. That's the next week point to go. If your running an even stronger axle, which I do, then your looking at the ADD tube. I've got 18 months of hard wheeling on my CV's and haven't had any issues.
 

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