96RedRunner
Senior Member
Well to be honest it was more like WTF using sevaral $.02 parts to protect a $200 investment in what looks to be a harsh environ. :hiding:
Lower Ball Joint Failure questions
- Thread starter Colorado buff
- Start date
Well to be honest it was more like WTF using sevaral $.02 parts to protect a $200 investment in what looks to be a harsh environ. :hiding:
Colorado buff
New member
What does the metal locking tab look like?
Something similar to this instead of the zip tie: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000COCQ0Q/ref=cm_sw_r_api_i_D8TA6DVYYVN5GQDTEPTQ_0
Zip tie will work fine though
Colorado buff
New member
Grazie!
TristanSnively
New member
Just curious how are these holding up? Does the quality really seem oem? I've been looking for oem LBJ but they've all gone up and are in like 250+ range if these are legit thatd be great
StangRunner
New member
Hi All, just wanted to share my experience with OEM LBJ from my local dealer... I just had to replace my 2yr old sub-20k miles ball joints due to noticeable play on both sides. My originals had zero play at 160k miles but I decided to replace them as 'preventive maintence' (should have left them alone lol). The only off-roading these saw were two trips to some sand dunes in Michigan, which were admittedly very abusive, and a ton of pot holes on our terrible Wisconsin roads. I was running 32" A/T's on stock 16" wheels for the majority of the miles and 31" snow tires on 17" 5th gen wheels for the last 500 or so miles with stock ride height (99 tall springs) prior to noticing the play. Even still at nearly $300 for the set, I'd expect better.
I'm curious if anybody else has had similar experiences as it really seems that the QC standards have lapsed since these vehicles were new. Here is a link to a video I took of the play. It was the same on both sides.
iCloud Drive - Apple iCloud
I'm wondering if there is any possibility, with enough people complaining, of Toyota investigating this issue and possibly work on a solution since a failure can be potentially deadly, especially since there really aren't any noticeable noises prior to them failing and one shouldn't expect a failure having changed them so recently. The majority of people think 'my originals lasted 20 years, the OEM replacements should last just as long' which is absolutely valid but based on my experience, not the case. I see all this talk of re-greasing but my engineer mind makes me think that this is a heat treat / material hardness, and fatigue issue.
Its obvious that the design is inherently flawed, with the LBJ being in constant tension, but it is clear that the design was optimized to the best of their abilities when new since there likely was not a single failure of original LBJ's prior to 150k miles. Working in automotive component design, I've learned that there are certain criteria that have to be absolutely perfect if you want something to last and I'd bet my life that any aftermarket manufacturer does not have or is not willing to invest the money in optimizing materials when making a part like this.
The closest I've seen to a true upgrade or fix are the heim conversions from Total Chaos but I for one do not want and shouldn't have to spend $1000 on a part that should not be a problem to begin with. It might be a good choice for people with extra deep pockets not living in the rust belt but those will turn to absolute crap in a year or two where I live.
Toyota 4Runner 1996-2002 3RD GEN 4RUNNER LOWER UNIBALL CONVERSION - TC HEIM STEERING | TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION
Thanks,
Sam
I'm curious if anybody else has had similar experiences as it really seems that the QC standards have lapsed since these vehicles were new. Here is a link to a video I took of the play. It was the same on both sides.
iCloud Drive - Apple iCloud
I'm wondering if there is any possibility, with enough people complaining, of Toyota investigating this issue and possibly work on a solution since a failure can be potentially deadly, especially since there really aren't any noticeable noises prior to them failing and one shouldn't expect a failure having changed them so recently. The majority of people think 'my originals lasted 20 years, the OEM replacements should last just as long' which is absolutely valid but based on my experience, not the case. I see all this talk of re-greasing but my engineer mind makes me think that this is a heat treat / material hardness, and fatigue issue.
Its obvious that the design is inherently flawed, with the LBJ being in constant tension, but it is clear that the design was optimized to the best of their abilities when new since there likely was not a single failure of original LBJ's prior to 150k miles. Working in automotive component design, I've learned that there are certain criteria that have to be absolutely perfect if you want something to last and I'd bet my life that any aftermarket manufacturer does not have or is not willing to invest the money in optimizing materials when making a part like this.
The closest I've seen to a true upgrade or fix are the heim conversions from Total Chaos but I for one do not want and shouldn't have to spend $1000 on a part that should not be a problem to begin with. It might be a good choice for people with extra deep pockets not living in the rust belt but those will turn to absolute crap in a year or two where I live.
Toyota 4Runner 1996-2002 3RD GEN 4RUNNER LOWER UNIBALL CONVERSION - TC HEIM STEERING | TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION
Thanks,
Sam
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Devbot
New member
Anonymous Fabrications offers the same thing for much cheaper. He uses a 7/8 uniball instead of 1", which is still plenty strong and half the price to rebuild - and also uses the factory castings so you can retain normal steering (you can also send in a spare set of LBJs for even more money off). Me and a few other users have been running them for a while now and they're working great. I'm assuming others would agree because he's expanded his selection to Tundras and Sequoias too, and those were frequently sold out for a while. He used to be a user on here and actually created and sold them first, beat Total Chaos by about a year. Really nice guy
AF also offers a boot kit for them to give a little protection from dust and water too, and I myself found a boot solution as well. No squeaks or anything after a couple years, haven't rebuilt either of them
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Twisted Sid
Member
There is a snowballs chance in hell that toyota will do anything about a minimum 22 year old vehicle design and fix anything to do with its parts.
StangRunner
New member
That's awesome... I had not heard of those. Gonna have to hit him up. Thanks for the share.
JZiggy
Senior Member
+1 for Anonymous Fab. I am running his uniballs and they are great.
Spiker Engineering
official vendor
I'd love to get those as well, but they are out of stock, it appears.
ETA - Josh just told me that they are revamping their uniballs to accept a 1" ball.
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I second this motion. Vehicle is well out of any warranty or liability to the manufacturer.
StangRunner
New member
I agree to a point, but if they sell a defective part and it causes an accident, they can 100% be held liable for damages. I work for an OE automotive supplier and we continue to support service parts for vehicles that are well out of warranty and will totally get burned if a service part with the customer's name on it causes damages. Granted, it would take a class action lawsuit to get anything changed but its not outside the realm of possibility. Wishful thinking I suppose...
A design flaw and a defective part are two entirely different aspects for Toyota. I'm not sure how Toyota handles it, but for GM if the part was not installed by a GM dealership then there's no liability attached to that part. There is no way for anyone to prove in a court beyond a reasonable doubt that the part was installed correctly following the correct procedure and using any applicable torque values.
I don't see how that is correct even for a GM part. If its clear the part failed in a way that is very unlikely to be attributed to torque specs or anything else unrelated to the install, the part producer is most likely to be held as liable. Also, GM doesn't make the call if they are liable, its up to a court/Jury.
Devbot
New member
Hm, interesting. I wonder if they'll still use the factory castings. I can't imagine so because they're kinda running out of material as is and the 7/8 fill it up well without making the walls thin, but I guess we'll see
snydmax
New member
I just replaced mine (again) after about 50k because they were super loose when I disconnected them to do some suspension work. Dont know if they actually needed it but I have a disorder that kicks in every time I remove parts [emoji1787]
Similar story, replaced the originals preventatively, after read numeric PSA’s when i first acquired the T4r.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Spiker Engineering
official vendor
Josh said that he is still able to use the original style (555) castings with the 1" ball.
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