Lower Ball Joint Failure questions

[19963.4lsr5]

I’ll let you all know how my greaseable non OEM joints last.

Every non greaseable ball joint I ever had failed prematurely and every greaseable except for Moog lasted until I took the rig to the junkyard from rust.

I grease the chassis every oil change.


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[Cree]

I’ll let you all know how my greaseable non OEM joints last.

Every non greaseable ball joint I ever had failed prematurely and every greaseable except for Moog lasted until I took the rig to the junkyard from rust.

I grease the chassis every oil change.


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I have 70k on my Moogs. Still perfect, grassed when I installed. Now, I just had 2 books shear, but the joint is fine.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I have 70k on my Moogs. Still perfect, grassed when I installed. Now, I just had 2 books shear, but the joint is fine.

Two books?

Be careful, you didn’t drink the OEM Cool Aid…..

Every non greaseable joint I ever came across was a ball socket wrapped in plastic. When the plastic lost its plastic the joint wore and pulled out and separated.


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[brillo_76]

I have 70k on my Moogs. Still perfect, grassed when I installed. Now, I just had 2 books shear, but the joint is fine.

I need to see how many miles on moogs. I am expecting 60k plus. (As I put them on before joining this forum ) I just checked mine via a dail indicator and the passenger was .34mm the driver .26 mm. Granted I don't off road and I have the original size tires and rims on. I figure I just checking them for play when close to .5mm replace the lower joint.

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[Cree]

Two books?

Be careful, you didn’t drink the OEM Cool Aid…..

Every non greaseable joint I ever came across was a ball socket wrapped in plastic. When the plastic lost its plastic the joint wore and pulled out and separated.


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Bolts lol. I was on mobile and didn't spell check. :crybaby:

 

[Colorado buff]

some more photos.

Waiting for the UBJ and bolt kit.
got the CV shaft, tie rod ends and rack and pinion boots and LBJ's OEM.

I guess if this happened on the highway could have been a lot worse. The right Ball joint looks like it wasn't replaced when I did the left one 7 years ago. I will get the parts after the swap and take some photos.

would love some opinions of the board on this. A little bit worried here. Want the truck to last another 5 years, and then maybe pick up a gen 6 toyota if nice.

 

[brillo_76]

You can check the play Tim and Sean did a video on it. The allowable play is .5mm you can not see that little amount of ply so you had to use a dial indicator to measure it.

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[Brian.]

I guess if this happened on the highway could have been a lot worse.


would love some opinions of the board on this. A little bit worried here. Want the truck to last another 5 years, and then maybe pick up a gen 6 toyota if nice.

I'm positive I've never seen an account of these failing at speeds above ~25mph or so and I seem to recall someone talking about them only failing with lots of steering input (making a 90 deg turn basically). There may be examples out there though, I've certainly not gone looking.

You said these were last replaced 7 years ago and you want another 5, sounds like if you just do the basic repair and general maintenance, you'll be set. If you're really anxious, when you change the oil, check the LBJ boots for tears/grease leaking/etc... should be easy to remember now. I usually focus on brakes and just kinda glance at everything else, gonna go deep this next oil change though (week or two from now).

 

[96RedRunner]

I guess if this happened on the highway could have been a lot worse.

The right Ball joint looks like it wasn't replaced when I did the left one 7 years ago.
would love some opinions of the board on this. A little bit worried here. Want the truck to last another 5 years.

It's happened at hwy speed and it is way worse. Driver in this instance gave a good description of events.
hwy had what you would call woops vehicle floating up and down, came off on up float buckled under rolled a time or two.
If what you say is true of right LBJ that's the culprit and why both should be changed always.
You'll get 5yrs/100k mi which ever comes first with two new LBJ's.
Off the top of my head there's a few other things that'll keep you from your goal trouble free.

 

[4Reak Show]

Nevermind

 

[Colorado buff]

I'm positive I've never seen an account of these failing at speeds above ~25mph or so and I seem to recall someone talking about them only failing with lots of steering input (making a 90 deg turn basically). There may be examples out there though, I've certainly not gone looking.

You said these were last replaced 7 years ago and you want another 5, sounds like if you just do the basic repair and general maintenance, you'll be set. If you're really anxious, when you change the oil, check the LBJ boots for tears/grease leaking/etc... should be easy to remember now. I usually focus on brakes and just kinda glance at everything else, gonna go deep this next oil change though (week or two from now).

it was definitely a hard turn to the right. and yeah replacing both and the other things mentioned. I want to keep this as Vehicles right are stupidly expensive due to the shortage.

I have seen ones fail on the highway from the images on this board, but yeah I agree the intense turning seems to put pressure on them. I was complaining about a my turning and feeling a weird sound a while back.

I am also curious to see if the other joints were OEM once we get them off.

 

[Colorado buff]

It's happened at hwy speed and it is way worse. Driver in this instance gave a good description of events.
hwy had what you would call woops vehicle floating up and down, came off on up float buckled under rolled a time or two.
If what you say is true of right LBJ that's the culprit and why both should be changed always.
You'll get 5yrs/100k mi which ever comes first with two new LBJ's.
Off the top of my head there's a few other things that'll keep you from your goal trouble free.

its funny just before it failed I did a left turn and then a right turn before the fatal left turn. The vehicle felt like it was floating so that sensation makes sense. In hindsight I should have pulled over right there. Might have saved me a little bit of money on some of the other parts.

my issue is I really like the Gen 3. The way it drives, frame on body and the size. All the new SUV's are much larger. I am hoping the Gen6 redesigns and takes some of the gen3 style, sizing and ride feel.

 

[Bad Luck]

some more photos.

Waiting for the UBJ and bolt kit.
got the CV shaft, tie rod ends and rack and pinion boots and LBJ's OEM.

I guess if this happened on the highway could have been a lot worse. The right Ball joint looks like it wasn't replaced when I did the left one 7 years ago. I will get the parts after the swap and take some photos.

would love some opinions of the board on this. A little bit worried here. Want the truck to last another 5 years, and then maybe pick up a gen 6 toyota if nice.

Any idea how old the right side was then? Do you remember why you only replaced the left side?

I would replace both sides with oem lbj and bolts and call it good for another 10 years. If you really feel the need you can check the play with a jack stand, pry bar, and dial indicator like previously said.

 

[Brian.]

I am hoping the Gen6 redesigns and takes some of the gen3 style, sizing and ride feel.

Hope springs eternal... but given the trends, I wouldn't hold my breath. It's all about "safety" now... as if you were a baby in angels arms. Kinda hard to do while hurtling through space at 60mph next to other 1 and 2 ton objects doing the same thing, and relying on a Human to pay attention and maintain control.... lol, right.

Expect vehicles to get bigger (more "crush zone", more room for airbag deployment), with worse outward visibility (higher windows for better crash protection). They're already overloaded with complex electrical communications systems that will disable the car if the radio croaks (2018 Mazda, sold it while in warranty because I didn't want to foot the bill out of warranty), and add all sorts of distractions... I mean "driver aids". If you're lucky, you might even land in one of the vehicles where if you want to use the key fob that cam with the vehicle, you have to pay a monthly subscription for the service. This isn't through an app, but with the fob... that works Exactly like the fobs on the 3rd gens, but functionality is turned on/off at the vehicle over cell by Toyota based on your subscription.

You might just want to take care of what you have and realize there will never be anything like it again. If you Really love the 3rd gen, you might want to seriously consider picking up a parts car of two... depends on how old you are (spend a bunch of time Now overhauling the vehicle and it'll last 20 years with minimal input.... I'll probably be on the verge of unfit to drive due to age in 20 years so I'm not too worried). Might be a totally different world by then, where ICE vehicles are relegated to approved events and locations only, with large costs to attend.... you just never know.

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=123280]Colorado buff[/MENTION], hind sight is always 20/20 don't beat yourself up best lessons learned.
Floating I mentioned was road surface roads that cycle the suspension up and down.
Ran across fellow 3rd gen owner at Lowes on main drag needed to move to parking spot to discuss LBJ's
he was right turning into spot LBJ popped out. Him and young son were headed for interstate 3 blocks away.

I feel you on liking 3rd gens, new ones will never go backwards in US majority market rules.
Ha, we gotta make em last.
If the one I have gets totaled or crazy dollars offered it'll be lots of tubing cutting welding time for me.

 

[Colorado buff]

Any idea how old the right side was then? Do you remember why you only replaced the left side?

I would replace both sides with oem lbj and bolts and call it good for another 10 years. If you really feel the need you can check the play with a jack stand, pry bar, and dial indicator like previously said.

They were both supposed to be replaced in 2015. When the old ones come out I am going to verify if one they are OEM and two is both were replaced. Now getting OEM so not worried for 5 more years

 

[19963.4lsr5]

You all drinking the OEM coolaid over ball joints is entertaining

I’m sure I’m going to step on toes….but every non-greaseable ball joint I ever had f****g failed. Every one of them. It didn’t matter the make or model. Plus every Moog Greasable ball joint died from water infiltration causing it to rust.

Every vehicle has its list of only OEM parts VS napa etc. experience and not Google tells you what works and what don’t. Example is the radiator cap…every 3rd Gen 4Runner I bought came with a dead Rad cap…..That is three of then. One 96 and two 97’s. TPS’s ad O2 sensors are an OEM thing to me. But with the O2 sensor, The sensor type has more to do with the sensor type and sensor design. The switching frequency of different brands causes some ECU’s to interpret the O2 signal incorrectly. Which is why I will never buy a Bosch O2 sensor unless it’s German.

The lower ball joint doesn’t care much which is left or right. They both will bolt up to the hub. What matters is the angle of the arm for the tie rod. One 4Runner had two Right hand Lower ball joints. When I replaced it with a correct left the toe was off 3/4”. Toe’d out.


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[Devbot]

Hope springs eternal... but given the trends, I wouldn't hold my breath. It's all about "safety" now... as if you were a baby in angels arms. Kinda hard to do while hurtling through space at 60mph next to other 1 and 2 ton objects doing the same thing, and relying on a Human to pay attention and maintain control.... lol, right.

Expect vehicles to get bigger (more "crush zone", more room for airbag deployment), with worse outward visibility (higher windows for better crash protection). They're already overloaded with complex electrical communications systems that will disable the car if the radio croaks (2018 Mazda, sold it while in warranty because I didn't want to foot the bill out of warranty), and add all sorts of distractions... I mean "driver aids". If you're lucky, you might even land in one of the vehicles where if you want to use the key fob that cam with the vehicle, you have to pay a monthly subscription for the service. This isn't through an app, but with the fob... that works Exactly like the fobs on the 3rd gens, but functionality is turned on/off at the vehicle over cell by Toyota based on your subscription.

You might just want to take care of what you have and realize there will never be anything like it again. If you Really love the 3rd gen, you might want to seriously consider picking up a parts car of two... depends on how old you are (spend a bunch of time Now overhauling the vehicle and it'll last 20 years with minimal input.... I'll probably be on the verge of unfit to drive due to age in 20 years so I'm not too worried). Might be a totally different world by then, where ICE vehicles are relegated to approved events and locations only, with large costs to attend.... you just never know.

This guy gets it. I try not to but I could go on for hours on the current and future automotive trends and the three way tug-of-war between safety, emissions and power output. Current electrical systems and over-computerization of everything too, that gets me particularly annoyed. Did you know over 40% of the cost of a new car is purely attributed to the electronics? Really makes those $60k+ price tags more annoying :tsk:

 

[96RedRunner]

You all drinking the OEM coolaid over ball joints is entertaining

It good coolaid when one can last 200k mi others don't.
Along with install and forget about em for at least a 100k mi.
Your right though nothing lasts forever.

 

[Warpony639]

Lbj failure

I’m repairing the passenger side of my 2001 Runner after an LBJ failure and when taking off the knuckle, the UCA didn’t “pop” upward to full articulation like the driver side did, does that mean the UCA is bad and needs to be replaced? When using a pry bar, it takes a good amount of effort to muscle it upward and it will not reach the top of the coilover shock well. The lower UCA seems to be ok and has same range of articulation as the driver side…. Some advice would be greatly appreciated..