missing a diesel option

Yup. I'm a big fan of forced induction. Advanced manufacturing technologies and state of the art design make turbo/super-charging a great option. Which is why Gadget needs to offer a kit ASAP!

:nicethread:

Toyota def needs to hurry up and put DI and a 6 speed in the 4runner. That will def help with the gas mpg and the hp and torque figures with the "easiest" fix. We're going into 2012 MY and it still has a 5 speed. What is up with that when cars like Chrysler are looking at 8 speed trannys?

As much as it would be nice to see a diesel in Toyota's line up, I also realize that it doesn't look like we will ever see one from Toyota. It seems that they're primarily focusing on hybrids for gas efficiency and considering how they're probably well ahead of the cafe requirements, they probably need to worry too much about getting their trucks to be too efficient.
 
Toyota def needs to hurry up and put DI and a 6 speed in the 4runner. That will def help with the gas mpg and the hp and torque figures with the "easiest" fix. We're going into 2012 MY and it still has a 5 speed. What is up with that when cars like Chrysler are looking at 8 speed trannys?

As much as it would be nice to see a diesel in Toyota's line up, I also realize that it doesn't look like we will ever see one from Toyota. It seems that they're primarily focusing on hybrids for gas efficiency and considering how they're probably well ahead of the cafe requirements, they probably need to worry too much about getting their trucks to be too efficient.

A 6AT would offer minimal advantages in the 4Runner with the current engine.

At 70mph, in 5th gear, the current 4Runner engine is spinning at 2000RPM and making 31.2hp at the wheels (not counting drivetrain loss).
At 70mph, in 6th gear, the current GX460 engine is spinning at 1778RPM and making 34.4hp at the wheel (again, not counting drivetrain loss).

So, how do we increase fuel economy? We lower the engine RPM by making the cruise gear taller. So, we'll hypothetically put the GX 6AT in the 4Runner and drop the engine RPM to 1800. That gives you a 4.10 final drive to get the 70mph at 1800RPM in 6th gear. Your torque is 239lb-ft @ 1800RPM (compared to 247lb-ft @ 2000RPM of the 5AT). So, we run through the calculations.

At 70mph, in 6th gear, the 4Runner w/ the GX 6AT and a 4.10 final drive engine is spinning at 1800RPM and making only 26.3hp at the wheel (again, not counting drivetrain loss).

You're now making 15% less hp at your cruising speed so you'll be downshifting to 5th a whole lot more.

It really comes down to the 1GR just not making enough torque at low RPMs to really make use of a 6AT. Direct injection will really help that, though. The UR V8 in the GX makes loads of torque down low (~280lb-ft @ 1800RPM). If they offered a V8 4Runner, we'd see the 6AT. Personally, I think this is good engineering by Toyota. Yeah, they could throw an 8 speed transmission in the 4Runner, but it might just end up sandbagging the EPA rating and the owner is pissed that his transmission is shifting all the time and not getting near the EPA numbers. These 6, 7, and 8 speed ATs take a lot more parts to build that have more chances of failure. Shifting all the time, trying to find that perfect gear, also means that those clutch packs are engaging and disengaging that much more. More doesn't always mean better.

Interestingly enough, the Corolla, with an antique 4AT, gets better gas mileage than pretty much all the other compact cars (many carrying 6ATs) on the Consumer Reports fuel economy test loops, while on the EPA loop, all these other compacts are rated at 10% better. I think marketing pushes these 6, 7, and 8 speed transmissions even though the results don't seem to transfer over to the real world.

If anyone really wants to see my spreadsheets, feel free to PM me.
 
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A 6AT would offer minimal advantages in the 4Runner with the current engine.

At 70mph, in 5th gear, the current 4Runner engine is spinning at 2000RPM and making 31.2hp at the wheels (not counting drivetrain loss).
At 70mph, in 6th gear, the current GX460 engine is spinning at 1778RPM and making 34.4hp at the wheel (again, not counting drivetrain loss).

So, how do we increase fuel economy? We lower the engine RPM by making the cruise gear taller. So, we'll hypothetically put the GX 6AT in the 4Runner and drop the engine RPM to 1800. That gives you a 4.10 final drive to get the 70mph at 1800RPM in 6th gear. Your torque is 239lb-ft @ 1800RPM (compared to 247lb-ft @ 2000RPM of the 5AT). So, we run through the calculations.

At 70mph, in 6th gear, the 4Runner w/ the GX 6AT and a 4.10 final drive engine is spinning at 1800RPM and making only 26.3hp at the wheel (again, not counting drivetrain loss).

You're now making 15% less hp at your cruising speed so you'll be downshifting to 5th a whole lot more.

It really comes down to the 1GR just not making enough torque at low RPMs to really make use of a 6AT. Direct injection will really help that, though. The UR V8 in the GX makes loads of torque down low (~280lb-ft @ 1800RPM). If they offered a V8 4Runner, we'd see the 6AT. Personally, I think this is good engineering by Toyota. Yeah, they could throw an 8 speed transmission in the 4Runner, but it might just end up sandbagging the EPA rating and the owner is pissed that his transmission is shifting all the time and not getting near the EPA numbers. These 6, 7, and 8 speed ATs take a lot more parts to build that have more chances of failure. Shifting all the time, trying to find that perfect gear, also means that those clutch packs are engaging and disengaging that much more. More doesn't always mean better.

Interestingly enough, the Corolla, with an antique 4AT, gets better gas mileage than pretty much all the other compact cars (many carrying 6ATs) on the Consumer Reports fuel economy test loops, while on the EPA loop, all these other compacts are rated at 10% better. I think marketing pushes these 6, 7, and 8 speed transmissions even though the results don't seem to transfer over to the real world.

If anyone really wants to see my spreadsheets, feel free to PM me.

See your spreadsheets? Damn man, I am still trying to understand your post!
Are you and 1engineer related?
 
I firmly believe that education, either for or against diesel, is needed.

Sure, people on vehicle forums know a bit more than soccer mom or new York commuter, and I think that's the issue.

If there was a good marketing campaign, a drop in the ridiculous tax, and options, I think people would buy into the idea.
 
Very interesting thread.

For those thinking they want a diesel in a family vehicle, I submit you'd be well-served to walk a mile or two in those shoes first.

Further, I submit that most here who "want" one, do so from some gear-head mentality that think they're (diesels) cool. (Uh, that includes me, btw).

However, the cost of cool is high. There's the reality of significantly higher purchase, operating, maintenance, and repair costs for which there is no cost-justification, ala an F250 PSD work truck. The 4R/FJ/Sequoia et al is no work truck.

Next comes factory maintenance and repair? Seriously, what's the implementation/learning curve of getting skilled techs into Toyota dealerships? Years of mediocre service and parts availability. It's just not part of Toyota's business model in the U.S., and there's no cost-justification for them to do this.

And those of you who've never got that nasty smelly fuel on your hands or shoes, and tracked it into your car, well, see paragraph #2.

Yep, I'm an LF9 graduate, class of '78 - '81. And yep, I'll not forget it. All of today's wonderful technology aside, it ain't gonna happen in our beloved 4R's.

Now 'scuse me - I gotta pull into this Seb'm-Leb'm for a coffee, and oh yeah, I'll leave my diesel runnin', 'cause it really sounds cool. 10-4 good buddy.
 
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Philsey is right, it aint gonna happen with 4R, and the cost would likely make it redundant - ie, the Powerstroke diesel in the F-250 SuperDuty is a $9,500 option. Yikes.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll see a direct injection turbo down the road, which would make sense and raise the torque (but not necessarily economy - Ford's EcoBoost V6 often gets same mileage as 5.0L). The blower route would also fit with Toyota's stated philosophy (Toyota is on record saying diesel is outdated and yesterday's technology) it's just frustrating to see fuel economy and torque figures realized in other SUVs, ie the Audi Q7, that could make the 4R even more ultimate than it already is.

I've driven the Q7 TDI at length, getting up to 1080 kilometres to a tank while averaging 130 km/h, (once averaging US 33 mpg @ 90 mph on I90 for three hours). Tow rating was 6,800 lbs too. Imagine if the 4R could do that!
 
A friend of mine has an old LR Defender 110 (non-NAS) with a 4 cylinder diesel. It is a giant steel box that looks like an old rusting prop from Mad Max, and it still gets 30+MPG. About 12 MPG more than my new 4Runner. Embarrassing really.
 
A friend of mine has an old LR Defender 110 (non-NAS) with a 4 cylinder diesel. It is a giant steel box that looks like an old rusting prop from Mad Max, and it still gets 30+MPG. About 12 MPG more than my new 4Runner. Embarrassing really.

Will it go up a 7% slope on the interstate at 70 mph?
 
Will it go up a 7% slope on the interstate at 70 mph?

Nope. I doubt that thing can even go 70mph...downhill....but it is awesome none the less.

You would have to have the balls of an astronaut and samurai warrior combined to take that thing up to 70mph.
 
...just thought I'd bump this back up.

It seems that with Toyota signing a partnership with BMW, this might actually help bring diesels to the 4Runner. Fingers crossed.

Toyota/BMW Partnership: Diesel Engines Earlier, Batteries Later | The Truth About Cars

Maybe it'll happen with the refresh or when the next gen 4runner is introduced.

I don't think that US consumption was in mind for that. I think it was more intended for their Euro cars.

Fun fact: the first MINI Cooper D from ~2001 (diesel) was powered by a Toyota diesel
 
I think one of the things that would be nice is if Toyota put a diesel option in the 4runner. I know that Americans don't like diesels in general but I believe a diesel in the right application (i.e. suv's) would work wonders. ...and I'm not talking about a chumpy diesel with 180hp and 280 lb-ft torque. If Toyota is going to put a diesel in the 4runner, they need to put one that has something like 240hp and 370 lb-ft of torque. That would really persuade me to get a diesel but it doesn't seem like this will happen soon as Toyota are focusing on their green image with hybrids and plug-ins. Personally, I don't see how any of their trucks will really work with hybrids tech and it seems like a contradiction to put a hybrid engine (for fuel efficiency) in an inefficient true style suv (not a unibody suv).

Americans love diesels. .GOV and a whole bunch of 3 letter bureaucracies are the MF-ers standing in the way of making it cost effective for manufactures and consumers.
 
Americans love diesels.

Meh - not this American. Been there, done that, ain't doin' that again.

Plus, I disagree in general. If Americans REALLY loved diesels, there'd be a demand, and The Free Enterprise System would take care of the rest. Not happening.


....GOV and a whole bunch of 3 letter bureaucracies are the MF-ers standing in the way of making it cost effective for manufactures and consumers.

Um, can you support that somehow?
 
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