Motor oil fact from fiction

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We've had great luck with full synthetic oil in our 1990 3VZE 4runner. It seems to run better on the M1 10w-40, then Castrol's Syntec of the same weight. The synthetic definitely keeps the internals much cleaner then standard dino. After 96k, the insides of our heads look like day one from the factory. Having said that, each to their own.
Full synthetic can make a big difference with vehicles with in cast bearings(read: new Subaru, Porsche, VW, etc..).
regards
 
Unfortunately that article has left me disappointed. It is not entirely accurate.

API and ILSAC "requirements" are actually set by what the oil manufacturers think are acceptable for engines. Since every single engine is different, they like to group oils together and claim that "SN" oil meets or exceeds all manufacturers' specs. You can't exceed a spec... it would be a different oil with different properties.

I'm glad they mentioned ACEA at least, but disappointed he has no idea what it means.... and seems to play it off like "It's European standard, we don't need it." NOT true at all. This rating is actually what the VEHICLE manufacturers specify an oil needs to have. They design the engine and it's oil needs around the camshaft! API and Ilsac are pretty useless now, aren't they?

Some FACTORY oils are not API and/or ILSAC approved, such as GM's dexos. Why? GM has some very stringent specs based on the engines they are building. API says it is essentially too specific, so they approve of it... can't make money off of that.

The other thing really disappointing about the article is the viscosity discussion. Guess what? SAE ratings are just a range. one 0w-20 can be THICKER than another 5w-30! Even within the same manufacturer!

The thing I research for now, is the actual data sheets for each oil. I look at, specifically, the "cSt @ 100" values. This is essentially the true viscosity of the oil. A higher number here means a thicker oil. [MENTION=7258]77'911[/MENTION] For example, your oil choice leaves you with a cSt of 14.7. That's way too thick, man. Domestic and Asian vehicles require a "thin" (low HTHS) oil. The range is pretty much anything above 11 is considered to be a "high HTHS" or thick oil, and anything below is thin. Don't think I'm criticizing you either. I ran valvoline maxlife 10w40 in my 3vze before I knew better. It was so noisy with lifter tick as it always has been. Only had the oil in there for a month and it was pitch black.

Anyway... I did my research and went with Castrol Edge 5w-30 which has a cSt of 10.7. Toyota factory fill 10w-30 had a cSt of 10.8 at the time. I have never heard my engine so quiet.... because it's running on the oil it was designed to use!

Why has no one compiled a list to find which oil is the best? not because it costs too much as the article stated, but because THERE IS NO "BEST" OIL.

I can always come back and add more if anyone has any questions or if I think of something. To be fair, I hate typing big posts with my phone so....yeah.
 
So Mike what u recommend for a high-mileage 22RE(290K) with low oil pressure? Every 22RE owner will tell u that their oil pressure gauge seems awfully low. I had heard that running 20W-50 was helpful, but now I'm just confused... HELP!

P.S. Ive been told that Jeep 4.0s need an oil with a high zinc content. True?
 
Quatre Coureur said:
So Mike what u recommend for a high-mileage 22RE(290K) with low oil pressure? Every 22RE owner will tell u that their oil pressure gauge seems awfully low. I had heard that running 20W-50 was helpful, but now I'm just confused... HELP!

P.S. Ive been told that Jeep 4.0s need an oil with a high zinc content. True?
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this is from engnbldr

The pump is crank mounted on the front and delivers oil instantly to the shaft and bearings, assuming it is primed.

*One of the neat things about this engine design, this means if any oil at all is available, the critical shaft gets it first.

The fact is, this was an industrial engine originally, designed to run and operate in almost impossible conditions in fork trucks.

The upper end can be a problem, considering the amount of oil we see up there (take off the valve cover and start her up and you will understand) one wouldn't think so, but huge amounts are required due to pressures that are very high.

Still, 4-5 pounds feeds it just fine. If you have 4-5 pounds at 50 MPH, then you can begin to worry.

*Better yet, take my word for it before you take the cover off and start her.....*LOL**...

The 22R/RE has a wonderfully designed and now much copied oiling system, it will run all day at 4-5 pounds and never lack for lube...

Now if this were a chevy...well.. That pump has to suck some up, stuff it in some holes and hope it gets to the shaft after a bunch of twists and turns....the bearings would have no chance at such a low pressure, on the 22RE? No prob.....*EB
 
MikeBonToft is right on about the oil ratings/specifications and such. Its so stupid at this point, many manufactuers purposefully make purpose built oil as an attempt to force customers/suppliers to give them money.

For example, VW/Audi, BMW, Mercedes has been using super specific oils for their vehicles for years now. What I mean by that is, if you don't use a 502-00 oil in a VW/Audi that calls for it, you void the warranty and damage is on you. Oh and a 501-01 is a different oil all together, using the wrong oil WILL damage the engine. Toyota is a little more forgiving, they just care you use the proper SAE rating, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start going to a more strict spec soon.

Its so specific that VW/Audi and Mercedes were sued by customers who's warranty claims were voided by the wrong oil used in their vehicles and that VW/Audi's oil was only availible from the Dealership in North America. Mercedes lost because the majority of those vehicles were serviced at the dealership where even the technicans weren't sure of what oil spec to use (that's an entirely different issue in its own right.) VW/Audi won their lawsuit (there was also a monopoly claim against them) stating, it wasn't their fault that no North American oil met their strict requirements and the only oil they approved was dealership only. GM saw that and was like, "OH HEY! Why don't WE do that!?" and thus DexOil was born!

Point being, Mike is right... a Toyota 0W-20 might be absolutely different in viscocity range than an aftermarket 0-W20, the only thing that is the same is that at freezing the oil is 0W weight and at operating temp (for the temperature ranges, I forget what they are off the top of my head) is 20weight. But inbetween it can be whatever the chemical engineers make it. An example to give you an idea; a friend of mine who teaches CTi and runs a Euro/Asian shop had a Chrysler 300 Hemi (granted they're piles of crap, dropping valve seats and cylinderhead issues anyways) with the cylinder deactivation feature. Customer had an oil change done somewhere else and since then it idled rough and misfired horribly. They eventually decided to just change the oil again (after many hours of diagnostics as to while the rockers just stopped moving on one cylinder) with what Chrysler called for and magically the cylinder reactivated! The problem? There wasn't enough oil volume to push the pin inside the cylinder deactivation solenoid to lock it in place, not pressure; volume which would be variable by viscocity at a given temperature.

The other issue is that many aftermarket companies are not interested in paying the company for their approval (I forgot how this works exactly though,) similar to some aftermarket parts being not CARB legal because they don't want to pay licensing fees. An example is with Toyota WS ATF, there is no Official aftermarket option for WS ATF that is approved by Toyota and thus not using the factory fluid voids transmission warranty. Now Amsoil makes a synthetic fluid specifically meant for WS ATF fluids, its just not "Toyota Approved," but meets the specifications.
 
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uh oh, someone else who takes CTi classes lol. Direct injection engines next month!

but yeah you know what I'm talking about!

Thing about Bob is... it's just a forum. like any forum, some people give advice when they shouldn't be.
 
mikebontoft said:
uh oh, someone else who takes CTi classes lol. Direct injection engines next month!

but yeah you know what I'm talking about!

Thing about Bob is... it's just a forum. like any forum, some people give advice when they shouldn't be.
Click to expand...

Adam is a good friend of mine and his courses have really opened my eyes to the advancements, and uneeded; but ultimately unavoidable complexity that modern cars are heading towards.

I still and scrounging up money for a Pico Scope so I can do pressure waveform analysis, it would help my diagnostics at the dealer so much more!

Also, I think we did GDI already this year, next class is this week for EVAP for my area. :)

Glad I'm not the only one on the forum who takes CTi courses! :high5:
 
You just said PicoScope. damn. I thought NO ONE uses it. The shop I've been at for a few weeks now has a PicoScope. I've already used it a few times now. I learned how to use it in my college courses, so I'm very familiar with it. :D

I will say though... as good of a course as it was, 4 hours is too long after a full work day. Then again it was on my second day of work. lol. Wonder how the GDI class is. The next one is in July, hosted at our shop.
 
mikebontoft said:
You just said PicoScope. damn. I thought NO ONE uses it. The shop I've been at for a few weeks now has a PicoScope. I've already used it a few times now. I learned how to use it in my college courses, so I'm very familiar with it. :D

I will say though... as good of a course as it was, 4 hours is too long after a full work day. Then again it was on my second day of work. lol. Wonder how the GDI class is. The next one is in July, hosted at our shop.
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Yeah I know what you mean, sometimes I need to pop some 5-hour energy to stay awake and absorb all the neat info Adam has. His classes are great, but when you've pulled a 8~9hr day and rush off to cram 4hrs of info in your brain it gets hard to not zombify!

The new Toyota TIS TechStream 2.0 we got actually comes with a "Special" Toyota/Lexus/Scion 4000 series PicoScope. Its all tattoo'd with the logos and everything! The only difference is that it the software comes with a library of known good waveforms of various Toyota sensors, patterns, ect ect which is neat.

I would love to get a scope like Bernies' 8 channel scope with 8 output channels and a ton of features, but its out of my price range and from what I hear requires a bit of know how and talking to Bernie to understand fully (not a bad thing, I just don't think I'd have enough time to chat with him and he's pretty busy from what I hear.) My co-worker just bought one of those UScopes from AESwave and its a really neat and useful tool for a 1 Channel scope!
 
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Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple, and Redline are all good manufactures. I personally like Amsoil and Mobil 1. Amsoil makes a signature synthetic that is guaranteed to last 15k on normal driving conditions, its what I used in my 4Runner.
 
Quatre Coureur said:
So Mike what u recommend for a high-mileage 22RE(290K) with low oil pressure? Every 22RE owner will tell u that their oil pressure gauge seems awfully low. I had heard that running 20W-50 was helpful, but now I'm just confused... HELP!

P.S. Ive been told that Jeep 4.0s need an oil with a high zinc content. True?
Click to expand...

I use Rotella T5 10w30 synthetic blend in my 1993 Toyota. I get it for about $16/gallon at wal mart and it is an HDEO and has a higher zink content which is great for these little inline 4 cylinders. I also use Purolator filters as they provide great filtration and are not that expensive. The filter is as important as the oil IMO
 
One more thing to note for you older engine guys. Either get oil that has high SAPs or get good quality additive for the oil. Newer oils lack the SAPs and such that older oils need for that sacrificial boundary layer, in one extreme case I've seen a camshaft that was reduced to just circles after the engine was rebuilt and the owner a top quality synthetic oil, without a high SAPs level or the proper addatives. Newer engines have such tight tolerances and good oiling systems they can do without high SAPs levels which the tree huggers had pulled out of oil.
 
Mikebontoft, I will have to disagree with you on that one. The devil is in the details. Recommending thinner oil for these old motors is a bad idea. 10w-40 weight is hardly thick for a 1990 3VZE. Most in the Porsche community have even come around to the idea that 0w-40 oil for their M96 engines (water cooled) is way too thin. It has promoted oil leaks, premature failures, and component failure( AOS, tensioner seals, etc..).
Without going into a dissertation, frankly the balance these companies are running with people using exceedingly thin poor quality (syn blend) oils, I believe(and have seen) greatly reduces service life which has already resulted in some to back track on policy. These companies don't want your car/truck going over 100k, or even 60k(beyond warranty, or the like). Caveat emptor.
regards
 
huntsonora said:
I use Rotella T5 10w30 synthetic blend in my 1993 Toyota. I get it for about $16/gallon at wal mart and it is an HDEO and has a higher zink content which is great for these little inline 4 cylinders. I also use Purolator filters as they provide great filtration and are not that expensive. The filter is as important as the oil IMO
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I too buy my oil at walmart. As for filters, I've been using Bosch and K&N. I see the Purolator there and they are indeed cheap. But that's what scares me, are they too cheap because the quality isn't there. We use Rotella in all the heavy equipment I run.
 
Quatre Coureur said:
I too buy my oil at walmart. As for filters, I've been using Bosch and K&N. I see the Purolator there and they are indeed cheap. But that's what scares me, are they too cheap because the quality isn't there. We use Rotella in all the heavy equipment I run.
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I have done a lot of research and the Purolators are a quality filter. From what I understand they are made in the same place where the Bosch filters are made.

Go to "Bob is the Oil Guy" forum and look around. Those guys put oil and filters through the paces and the Purolator is a favorite over there. I use a larger filter on my 22RE. I can get you the model number if you like
 
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