My experience getting Toyota to diagnose steering wheel vibration

[engineeer]

I know a lot of people have had steering wheel vibration. Mine randomly onset after 8000 miles on my 2017 TRDP.

I'll share by odometer readings:

90: install 265/70R17 KO2s C load, no issues
200: swap for 275 KO2 E load, no issues
5,000 miles: rotate tires, no issues
8,000 miles: steering wheel randomly starts vibrating between 55-60mph
8,050 miles: take it into tire shop and have tires balanced, still vibrates
8,100 miles: take it into the dealer, they blame it on the tires and won't do any work
8,600 miles: take it into tire shop, tires balanced again, still vibrates
9,300 miles: take it to tire shop, perform road force balancing, still vibrates
9,800 miles: tire shop rotates tires, still vibrates

I took it to the dealer again yesterday and said, "We've balanced the tires 2 times, road force balanced them once, and now have rotated the tires. The steering wheel continues to vibrate between 55-60mph, which makes me think it might not be the tires. Can you please do some basic checks to make sure something isn't wrong?"

Dealer refused again to do any work citing the 275 tires as being the cause. When I finally got them to agree that it likely wasn't the tires, they said Toyota will not authorize warranty repairs until I revert to the old tire size. I asked what I'm supposed to do with $1,000 worth of tires if I go back to 265s and it still vibrates and received a shrug in return.

My options are:

1. Deal with the vibration -- 50-75% of my driving is between 50-60mph, so this isn't really an option
2. Swap 275 Es for new 275 Es to see my tires themselves are bad/out of round -- if the issue persists, Toyota likely still won't try to fix it because they're larger than stock
3. Downgrade from 275 E to 265 C -- if the issue persists, I will have wasted money getting new tires and downgraded, but the dealer will then actually do warranty work to fix the issue

I'm likely going with Option 3 as that's the safest bet. What has everyone's experience been with the dealer doing warranty work on a vehicle with larger than stock tires?

A picture for your time:

 

[HeartGuy]

Honestly, I think this is likely a steering gear problem and not tire related. Every newer 5th gen I've driven has had the 55-65mph vibration, literally. No matter the tire's size or load range the vibration is there, sometimes more pronounced when compared to others.

 

[mcarey86]

Not a fan of how your experience has started.

I've got a noticeable shimmy in the 55-60mph range, with the same tires. Slightly more mileage, but not by much.

I haven't brought it in yet as I've just been busy and I am rarely driving at that speed so it doesn't bug me too frequently.

 

[1engineer]

I know a lot of people have had steering wheel vibration. Mine randomly onset after 8000 miles on my 2017 TRDP.

I'll share by odometer readings:

90: install 265/70R17 KO2s C load, no issues
200: swap for 275 KO2 E load, no issues
5,000 miles: rotate tires, no issues
8,000 miles: steering wheel randomly starts vibrating between 55-60mph
8,050 miles: take it into tire shop and have tires balanced, still vibrates
8,100 miles: take it into the dealer, they blame it on the tires and won't do any work
8,600 miles: take it into tire shop, tires balanced again, still vibrates
9,300 miles: take it to tire shop, perform road force balancing, still vibrates
9,800 miles: tire shop rotates tires, still vibrates

I took it to the dealer again yesterday and said, "We've balanced the tires 2 times, road force balanced them once, and now have rotated the tires. The steering wheel continues to vibrate between 55-60mph, which makes me think it might not be the tires. Can you please do some basic checks to make sure something isn't wrong?"

Dealer refused again to do any work citing the 275 tires as being the cause. When I finally got them to agree that it likely wasn't the tires, they said Toyota will not authorize warranty repairs until I revert to the old tire size. I asked what I'm supposed to do with $1,000 worth of tires if I go back to 265s and it still vibrates and received a shrug in return.

My options are:

1. Deal with the vibration -- 50-75% of my driving is between 50-60mph, so this isn't really an option
2. Swap 275 Es for new 275 Es to see my tires themselves are bad/out of round -- if the issue persists, Toyota likely still won't try to fix it because they're larger than stock
3. Downgrade from 275 E to 265 C -- if the issue persists, I will have wasted money getting new tires and downgraded, but the dealer will then actually do warranty work to fix the issue

I'm likely going with Option 3 as that's the safest bet. What has everyone's experience been with the dealer doing warranty work on a vehicle with larger than stock tires?

A picture for your time:

Use your engineering degree and troubleshoot it yourself, this way you can speak intelligently to the service people (anywhere, dealer or tire shop) about what the true problem could be.

For example:
Right now, is the vibration mostly in the seat or in the steering wheel? This will tell you whether it is front or back.
Can you remember if the vibration changed when tires were rotated?
Is the vibration on all road surfaces at these speeds? Blacktop, concrete, two lane, interstate?
Is it worse when cold or hot or no change?
Have you changed air pressures to determine if that helps or not?
Any noises when vibrations occur?

Those items are what I would check first. There are only so many reasons it could be vibrating at that speed, since it is speed related.

If you know the answers to the questions above, it will help the tech in diagnosing the actual problem. Also, when they actually do something like rotate, balance or something else you can go through the list again and see if anything changed.

Yes, I agree, people shouldn't have to troubleshoot their own vehicle and most couldn't anyway. But, if you have the logic discipline, you should do this for your own edification. Why? Because a slight vibration at a certain speed is a tough one to fix. You have tires, wheels, brake rotors, axles, CV joints, driveshafts, rack and pinion and a whole bunch of other things that could be causing your grief.

Good luck.

 

[engineeer]

Honestly, I think this is likely a steering gear problem and not tire related. Every newer 5th gen I've driven has had the 55-65mph vibration, literally. No matter the tire's size or load range the vibration is there, sometimes more pronounced when compared to others.

The fact that it suddenly started doing it, 3x tire balancing, and a tire rotation haven't changed the vibration speed or amount at all makes me think it's not tire related as well. The dealer is being really stubborn about it though.

Not a fan of how your experience has started.

I've got a noticeable shimmy in the 55-60mph range, with the same tires. Slightly more mileage, but not by much.

I haven't brought it in yet as I've just been busy and I am rarely driving at that speed so it doesn't bug me too frequently.

I normally wouldn't care, but I spend a lot of time driving at roughly those speeds. I drove up to the mountains a couple weekends ago and was stuck behind a semi going 57mph (peak vibration) for about a minute and I was about to lose my mind. It felt as though my tires were going to rattle off the car.

 

[badattitude]

finger plate adapter should be used when balancing tires
search TSB-SU002-96

Because your dealer has been so helpful, see if you can find a PDF of TSB su002-96 and bring it to them. It says all Toyota truck should be balanced using a haweka adapter aka a finger plate adapter.

tip, once you get them balanced, do not let anyone re-balance them until you have a vibration.

 

[engineeer]

Use your engineering degree and troubleshoot it yourself, this way you can speak intelligently to the service people (anywhere, dealer or tire shop) about what the true problem could be.

I tried to do just that, but the tech all but put his fingers in his ears and said, "It's your tires" without any logic to back it up.

Right now, is the vibration mostly in the seat or in the steering wheel? This will tell you whether it is front or back.
Always in the steering wheel regardless of balancing or tire rotation.

Can you remember if the vibration changed when tires were rotated?
The vibration has always been the same magnitude and between 55-60mph.

Is the vibration on all road surfaces at these speeds? Blacktop, concrete, two lane, interstate?
It occurs on smooth paved roads (highway), rough paved roads (surface streets), and off-road on "smooth" dirt roads.

Is it worse when cold or hot or no change?
No change.

Have you changed air pressures to determine if that helps or not?
I've tried from 34psi up to 50psi in 4psi increments. I've also tried having a 2-4 psi delta between front and back (e.g. 42 up front, 38 or 40 in back and vice versa). No difference.

Any noises when vibrations occur?
None.

If you know the answers to the questions above, it will help the tech in diagnosing the actual problem. Also, when they actually do something like rotate, balance or something else you can go through the list again and see if anything changed.

I've conveyed all of the above to three different service advisors, two different techs, and the shop manager, but they still either blame the tires or refuse to do any work until I revert to the old tire size. I had to pull teeth to get them to check the alignment when it was pulling hard right--they blamed the tires for that one too. They begrudgingly checked eventually and the alignment was pretty out of spec, so they fixed it. Then they blamed the tires for the alignment being out of spec lol.

The fact that they won't do any sort of inspection is what's appalling to me. If there's something loose or broken in the steering-related assembly, completely unrelated to the tires, it's a risk and they can be damn well sure I'll sue them in a heartbeat if I have a catastrophic failure on the road leading to an accident.

 

[FinntheT4R]

I wanted to jump in here and let you know that I've had the same exact issue and I have stock suspension and wheels/tires. It's interesting that I'm not alone in this. Mine doesn't happen terribly often but I have had a few moments where the steering wheel shake was very noticeable at those speeds.

 

[Jetboy]

It's pretty easy to prove if it's the tires or not. Swap them. Ask the dealer to put tires from another vehicle on for a test drive. If it's smooth - go see BFG. If not - it's a problem with the vehicle.

 

[engineeer]

I wanted to jump in here and let you know that I've had the same exact issue and I have stock suspension and wheels/tires. It's interesting that I'm not alone in this. Mine doesn't happen terribly often but I have had a few moments where the steering wheel shake was very noticeable at those speeds.

Check out the results from this poll: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/117887-steering-wheel-vibration-poll.html

~45% (maybe less now) of 600 people that voted have/had undiagnosed steering wheel vibration.

It might be worth doing a follow-up survey to see if it correlates to something e.g. tire brand, tire size, certain modifications (like sliders), etc.

 

[engineeer]

It's pretty easy to prove if it's the tires or not. Swap them. Ask the dealer to put tires from another vehicle on for a test drive. If it's smooth - go see BFG. If not - it's a problem with the vehicle.

That's a great idea.

If another set of rims/tires doesn't vibrate on mine, it would narrow it down to my rims or tires being the culprit.

 

[1engineer]

I tried to do just that, but the tech all but put his fingers in his ears and said, "It's your tires" without any logic to back it up.





I've conveyed all of the above to three different service advisors, two different techs, and the shop manager, but they still either blame the tires or refuse to do any work until I revert to the old tire size. I had to pull teeth to get them to check the alignment when it was pulling hard right--they blamed the tires for that one too. They begrudgingly checked eventually and the alignment was pretty out of spec, so they fixed it. Then they blamed the tires for the alignment being out of spec lol.

The fact that they won't do any sort of inspection is what's appalling to me. If there's something loose or broken in the steering-related assembly, completely unrelated to the tires, it's a risk and they can be damn well sure I'll sue them in a heartbeat if I have a catastrophic failure on the road leading to an accident.

Read this http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/117887-steering-wheel-vibration-poll.html if you haven't already.
Also, remember an alignment is sometimes helpful in this situation. Did they do a good job? Don't know. The reason they think "tires" is because tires are the problem 99% of the time. Sometimes though the problem is not tires, and that is a hard nut to crack.

Threatening to sue someone on the internet or in real life does nothing for anyone here or at the shop trying to help. It just shows you are thinking of litigious actions instead of fixing the problem. Tough talk gets you nowhere.

 

[engineeer]

Read this http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/117887-steering-wheel-vibration-poll.html if you haven't already.
Also, remember an alignment is sometimes helpful in this situation. Did they do a good job? Don't know. The reason they think "tires" is because tires are the problem 99% of the time. Sometimes though the problem is not tires, and that is a hard nut to crack.

I've had the alignment fixed three times in the past 10k miles by this same dealer due to it pulling pretty hard to the right. They've latched onto the tires as the root-cause for that and the vibration without any evidence to back it up--at least none that they've shared with me.

Threatening to sue someone on the internet or in real life does nothing for anyone here or at the shop trying to help. It just shows you are thinking of litigious actions instead of fixing the problem. Tough talk gets you nowhere.

It's not tough talk--it's the reality of the situation. The dealer is refusing to do any sort of diagnostic work on what can potentially be a dangerous problem e.g. steering goes out while I'm going around a bend without a guard rail. I have two service receipts that say no diagnostic work was done ("can not verify concern until vehicle has to be put to original spec [sic]" was the latest one) because the tires are not factory.

Over the past 2,000 miles, I've been to the tire shop four times and the dealer two times. I've tried to diagnose the issue myself and conveyed my findings to both the tire shop and the dealer. I'm clearly trying to get the problem fixed. Unfortunately, sometimes the only thing that motivates people is the fear of consequences. It's not as though I walked in there the first time this happened and said, "Fix this or I'll sue!"

 

[1engineer]

I've had the alignment fixed three times in the past 10k miles by this same dealer due to it pulling pretty hard to the right. They've latched onto the tires as the root-cause for that and the vibration without any evidence to back it up--at least none that they've shared with me.



It's not tough talk--it's the reality of the situation. The dealer is refusing to do any sort of diagnostic work on what can potentially be a dangerous problem e.g. steering goes out while I'm going around a bend without a guard rail. I have two service receipts that say no diagnostic work was done ("can not verify concern until vehicle has to be put to original spec [sic]" was the latest one) because the tires are not factory.

Over the past 2,000 miles, I've been to the tire shop four times and the dealer two times. I've tried to diagnose the issue myself and conveyed my findings to both the tire shop and the dealer. I'm clearly trying to get the problem fixed. Unfortunately, sometimes the only thing that motivates people is the fear of consequences. It's not as though I walked in there the first time this happened and said, "Fix this or I'll sue!"

Do what [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] suggested. That will settle the tire question once and for all.

 

[engineeer]

Do what [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] suggested. That will settle the tire question once and for all.

That will be my next step.

If the failure follows the vehicle, then the dealer has to do real work.

If the failure follows the wheels, I'll still need to swap out the tires to see if it follows the rims or the tires.

I'll report back either way so that someone else with this issue can benefit from my findings.

 

[1jzgte]

Don't throw your money away at a set of 265 tires. It won't fix the vibration. I've been throwing money at this problem too and so far an alignment and several tire balances later at different shops, road force or not, and i've still got the vibration.

 

[wadle5]

Recently had the same issue of going back and forth eetc. After talking with the dealership they said they couldn't find the problem and blamed the lift. I said it wasn't an issue since my lift has been on for nearly 4 years. Took it to the luxury dealership down the road and had them road force balance them. While they did rid the shake they also did inform me the amount of force it took to balance them shows that 3 out of my 4 tires were OUT of ROUND. So now with this I get to pursue the tire company for replacements with only 12k on my General Grabbers.

As others have suggested I would see if you could swap out wheels and tires for a stock set to just show them the issue is there no matter what tire/wheel combo.

Good luck man I can actually say I know exactly what you are going through and how maddening it becomes to drive when your wheel shakes 50-60% the time while driving.

 

[Grug556]

Honestly, I think this is likely a steering gear problem and not tire related. Every newer 5th gen I've driven has had the 55-65mph vibration, literally. No matter the tire's size or load range the vibration is there, sometimes more pronounced when compared to others.

yeah mine has it as well. Its a 2016 limited with 265/70/16 K02s. Get a mini vibration around 90-95km/hr. Nothing major, but noticeable. Hit 96 or so and its gone...

 

[jc0019]

You should just borrow someone stock rims and tires, drive around for a bit and check to see if you still get the vibration.

I'm sure some forum members will let you borrow their stock rims and tires for a day or two.

 

[4Running303]

x2 what others said about trying different rims and tires.
I had a similar vibration above 50mph and gone if I hit 75. No different whether cold or warm tires. I lived with it and figured it came with the territory of running 285/70-17's and a Toytec lift. I checked all the basics, nothing loose, nothing worn (that I could detect), and it was only in the steering wheel. I basically let it go...then I noticed it remained even when I ran my winter tires on the same stock trail rims (I swapped Blizzaks that were also 285/70-17's onto the stock rims during the winter).

Last spring I went to an aftermarket rim and larger tires, and guess what, vibration gone. Was it the rims? Maybe. Was it the tires? Possibly. But, with changing rims and tires, vibration was gone...however, even with two sets of tires (summer and winter) on my stock rims I still had the vibration. Its possible someone at the tire shop did a horrible job balancing both sets on the rim, but it seems more likely the rims were the issue.

Hope your issue gets resolved!