My experience towing a travel trailer 4,000 miles wtih a mildly built T4R

[alpinhi]

I HAD a topnotch Equalizer WDH with sway control Equal-i-zer Weight Distribution System w/ 4-Point Sway Control - 4,000 lbs GTW, 400 lbs TW Equal-i-zer Weight Distribution EQ37040ET

That particular hitch, the only one I've used, was no good for even mild offroading. You have to remove the sway control bars so the truck and trailer can move independently of each other, and even then the way the hitch hangs so low under the ball it was constantly digging into the ground going through dips, hitting rocks. Other styles of WDH I don't know about.

I went to a basic hitch and it's been fine on the Interstate with very strong crosswinds. I've hauled the trailer with a 2012 Tacoma and a 2005 Tundra, I expect the 4Runner will handle this 19 footer fine without a WDH.

But, I'll be upgrading the suspension PDQ. I'm looking at the BOSS kit from Toytec with HD rear springs and remote reservoir rear shocks. Boss Suspension System for 03-09 4Runner, 07-09 FJ

OME kit could work OME full suspension -- Click here for details but I don't like that the fronts are not adjustable. I don't want a 2.5" lift up front, 1-1.5" is good enough.

I prefer to buy a full suspension kit rather than try to mix and match like FJ springs and 5100's. Hopefully the BOSS kit with some LT tires instead of the P Michelins on it now I'll have a good tow vehicle and offroad vehicle.

Im thinking the exact same thing right now. I want to dump my coil spacers and put an actual suspension on. I am pricing the difference of piecing together a kit vs buying a whole one. Right now Im stuck between Icon and the Boss system.:redbrick:

 

[flipflopnfly]

Im thinking the exact same thing right now. I want to dump my coil spacers and put an actual suspension on. I am pricing the difference of piecing together a kit vs buying a whole one. Right now Im stuck between Icon and the Boss system.:redbrick:

I talked to Toytec about the various lift kits (OME, Icon Stage 1, Ultimate Lift Kit, BOSS kit, 5100's all around), told them my goal was no more than 2" over stock front and rear, have a stiffer ride, rear springs the ability to handle a 400lb tongue weight and cargo without a WDH.

Their first thought was 5100's set at the lower settings with OME 895E rear springs. I said I didn't really want a 'mix and match' setup front and rear, wanted something tuned to match front and rear, vehicle specific tuned. And adjustable collars.

So their next thought was the Icon Stage 1 for the stiffer rear springs, tuned to work together front and rear, good ride onroad and off. I asked them how the BOSS kit compared to Icon Stage 1 performance-wise, they said about the same, Icon better. The Icon has bigger front shocks, 2.5 vs 2.0, but of course Icon is $400 more. Toytec does test the BOSS kit with a 4Runner so it's tuned vehicle specific.

I forgot to ask about wheel travel, shock travel, but I think any entry level kit will have about 5 inches of travel from the shocks.

So, guess what? I'm still undecided. My first inclination is to go cheap with the BOSS kit, install Firestone airbags on the rear for $100. I might have to add airbags with the ICON kit also.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Powder_Hound]

Great info and nice work. I'm pulling a 4000 lb, 25'' long, 8' wide Kodiak with my 2004 V-8. It does have the small tranny rad (no separate temp gauge), but I have not seen the engine temp go beyond the "high" end of the in range temp markings. I'm able to keep at 45-50 over Vail Pass and heading up towards the Eisenhower Tunnel in Co, but my T4R is working hard. All that aside I'm getting about 180 miles +- per tank pulling in the Colorado high country. I have a 3" lift with 265/70/17's currently and will be growing to 275/70/17's.

I love the way my T4R tows, drives, and keeps the opportunities to explore alive!

 

[alpinhi]

I talked to Toytec about the various lift kits (OME, Icon Stage 1, Ultimate Lift Kit, BOSS kit, 5100's all around), told them my goal was no more than 2" over stock front and rear, have a stiffer ride, rear springs the ability to handle a 400lb tongue weight and cargo without a WDH.

Their first thought was 5100's set at the lower settings with OME 895E rear springs. I said I didn't really want a 'mix and match' setup front and rear, wanted something tuned to match front and rear, vehicle specific tuned. And adjustable collars.

So their next thought was the Icon Stage 1 for the stiffer rear springs, tuned to work together front and rear, good ride onroad and off. I asked them how the BOSS kit compared to Icon Stage 1 performance-wise, they said about the same, Icon better. The Icon has bigger front shocks, 2.5 vs 2.0, but of course Icon is $400 more. Toytec does test the BOSS kit with a 4Runner so it's tuned vehicle specific.

I forgot to ask about wheel travel, shock travel, but I think any entry level kit will have about 5 inches of travel from the shocks.

So, guess what? I'm still undecided. My first inclination is to go cheap with the BOSS kit, install Firestone airbags on the rear for $100. I might have to add airbags with the ICON kit also.

What are your thoughts?

I didn't know that Icon has stiffer rear springs. I was originally thinking about Icon front with UCA's and toytec heavy duty rear to help out with tongue weight and possibly a rear bumper with a swingout. I'm still weighing options and pricing components/full kits out. I'm undecided at this point also. It's driving me nuts.

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[alpinhi]

Great info and nice work. I'm pulling a 4000 lb, 25'' long, 8' wide Kodiak with my 2004 V-8. It doesn't have an extra tranny rad so I am relying on the main rad to do the work. I have seen the temp gauge go up to the "high" end of the in range temp markings, but no further. I'm able to keep at 45-50 over Vail Pass and heading up towards the Eisenhower Tunnel in Co, but my T4R is working hard. All that aside I'm getting about 180 miles +- per tank pulling in the Colorado high country. I have a 3" lift with 265/70/17's currently and will be growing to 275/70/17's.

I love the way my T4R tows, drives, and keeps the opportunities to explore alive!

That's a nice setup, it sounds like yours pulls good even with an 8ft wide TT. Does that one have a slide?

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[flipflopnfly]

Great info and nice work. I'm pulling a 4000 lb, 25'' long, 8' wide Kodiak with my 2004 V-8. It doesn't have an extra tranny rad so I am relying on the main rad to do the work. I have seen the temp gauge go up to the "high" end of the in range temp markings, but no further. I'm able to keep at 45-50 over Vail Pass and heading up towards the Eisenhower Tunnel in Co, but my T4R is working hard. All that aside I'm getting about 180 miles +- per tank pulling in the Colorado high country. I have a 3" lift with 265/70/17's currently and will be growing to 275/70/17's.

I love the way my T4R tows, drives, and keeps the opportunities to explore alive!

I'm not critcising your setup but you have the WDH on it, I don't like them myself. Once you get into some offroading with the trailer they get torn up in my experience. I had to switch out the WDH for a straight hitch so I didn't have to carry both going onroad to offroad.

I dearly love to haul the trailer offroad on some 4WD only roads. The engine can pull a house in 4LO over rough terrain, the limitation is the type of hitch. For instance go up by Empire, you'd have to swap out the WDH once you got off US40, carry that 100lbs until after you had your fun with the trailer getting into some offroad spots.

My goal is three way - haul the trailer in 4LO and highway, unhooked have a great offroader. I'm thinking the BOSS kit with rear Firestone airbags has good bang for the buck.

I've accomplished that three way goal before with Tacomas and a Tundra, so I know it can be done with a 4Runner, I just have to find the right combination of suspension components.

 

[flipflopnfly]

I didn't know that Icon has stiffer rear springs. I was originally thinking about Icon front with UCA's and toytec heavy duty rear to help out with tongue weight and possibly a rear bumper with a swingout. I'm still weighing options and pricing components/full kits out. I'm undecided at this point also. It's driving me nuts.

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Yeah, have to sit down at the kitchen table, do some sorting and comparisons, lay it all out and decide. I'm leaning toward Firestone airbags no matter the springs/shock combo.

 

[JimInTN]

I love that escape trailer! I've been looking for a casita, but would take either.

 

[Powder_Hound]

That's a nice setup, it sounds like yours pulls good even with an 8ft wide TT. Does that one have a slide?

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It has a rear queen bed slide, but nothing on the sides.

 

[Powder_Hound]

I'm not critcising your setup but you have the WDH on it, I don't like them myself. Once you get into some offroading with the trailer they get torn up in my experience. I had to switch out the WDH for a straight hitch so I didn't have to carry both going onroad to offroad.

I dearly love to haul the trailer offroad on some 4WD only roads. The engine can pull a house in 4LO over rough terrain, the limitation is the type of hitch. For instance go up by Empire, you'd have to swap out the WDH once you got off US40, carry that 100lbs until after you had your fun with the trailer getting into some offroad spots.

My goal is three way - haul the trailer in 4LO and highway, unhooked have a great offroader. I'm thinking the BOSS kit with rear Firestone airbags has good bang for the buck.

I've accomplished that three way goal before with Tacomas and a Tundra, so I know it can be done with a 4Runner, I just have to find the right combination of suspension components.

Exactly...I had a PUP and ran Airlift bags and it worked perfectly as you describe. I won't take this off-road as the clearance (particularly at waste water drain) is way to low. It's also nearly 40' in total length which makes tight turns tricky (even more so with WDH). I have a straight ball, but I feel, even with air bags, towing a travel trailer the same weight as my T4R isn't the safest option without a WDH.

 

[alpinhi]

I'm not critcising your setup but you have the WDH on it, I don't like them myself. Once you get into some offroading with the trailer they get torn up in my experience. I had to switch out the WDH for a straight hitch so I didn't have to carry both going onroad to offroad.

I dearly love to haul the trailer offroad on some 4WD only roads. The engine can pull a house in 4LO over rough terrain, the limitation is the type of hitch. For instance go up by Empire, you'd have to swap out the WDH once you got off US40, carry that 100lbs until after you had your fun with the trailer getting into some offroad spots.

My goal is three way - haul the trailer in 4LO and highway, unhooked have a great offroader. I'm thinking the BOSS kit with rear Firestone airbags has good bang for the buck.

I've accomplished that three way goal before with Tacomas and a Tundra, so I know it can be done with a 4Runner, I just have to find the right combination of suspension components.

I hear you and no offense taken, I don't care for them either but I felt I needed one for the distances we tow. I'm running the Anderson weight distribution hitch which is not your typical WDH setup. The whole thing weighs around 30 lbs (not including the receiver hitch which is not removed) and is very compact since it uses chains instead of bars. I can remove it in no time and toss it in the trunk or the front exterior compartment of the camper. I did this when I pulled the trailer a ways up Engineer Pass (Lake City side before Roses cabin) to camp away from people. After getting in more time using this hitch I have found that it takes the dips and turns much better than expected. It also has built in sway control that doesn't have to be removed when backing up or making extremely tight turns. I have taken some pretty steep entrances to fuel stations and so forth and was worried about picking up my rear tires but have had no issues.
I really like the idea of the airbags and I'm researching it now that you mentioned it. Im going to run numbers again tomorrow on the lifts and try to give Toytech a call and actually talk with someone about it. A number of guys from work run Toyota's and we are doing our annual camping and offroad trip in September so I would like to have my suspension done by then, I'll keep my fingers crossed (tent camping, not towing). Here is a YouTube link for Anderson, hope the link works I'm doing this from my phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRoQ_yQZQwQ

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[flipflopnfly]

I didn't know that Icon has stiffer rear springs. I was originally thinking about Icon front with UCA's and toytec heavy duty rear to help out with tongue weight and possibly a rear bumper with a swingout. I'm still weighing options and pricing components/full kits out. I'm undecided at this point also. It's driving me nuts.

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I got the BOSS kit delivered yesterday, those K-Source clipon tow mirrors I linked above delivered today.

I'm going to order the Firestone bags, but looking through some info I'm thinking with the longer rear coils the standard Firestones are not long enough. http://www.truckspring.com/products/Firestone-Coil-Rite-Air-Bag-Kit-Toyota-4Runner-FJ-Cruiser-and-Lexus-LX570-Rear__4135.aspx

If you page down to the Q&A on that link a couple people asked "What about with a lift?" and they mentioned two other kits besides the stock 4135, one 9" and one 10" (vs the stock 7.5"). I think the 9" would be a good idea, I'll call Toytec Monday and ask what they think. Not much point in putting in an airbag that's too short to prevent sagging. I read on toyota120 something about not cutting down the OEM bumpstops as much (supposed to cut them down all the way to the puck and reuse the puck for the upper spring seat). I guess that could work but my thinking is because the OEM bumpstop is tapered, a conical shape, it's better to have a taller bag that the entire 4.75" width of the bag hits the upper spring seat instead of hitting say 3 inches of the upper spring seat which would happen if I didn't cut off all four sections of the bumpstop.

Well, you see I'm still sorting things out!

And by the way, the Runner uses "Coil-Rite" brand bags which don't have spacers available like the "Ride-Rite" bags for lifted leafspring suspensions, our options are a bit limited.

Another by the way, I looked up the Air Lift airbags. Very different specs for stock coils - 5.38" width 6.5" length (Firestone with stock coils 4.75" width 7.5" length). http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/helper-springs/air-spring-kits/air-lift/1000-60809.aspx On toyota120.com a guy mentioned he had a 2" lift and Air Lift said he should use Air Lift PN 60728, 5.38" width 8.5" length. http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14596&highlight=airlift+1000

 

[flipflopnfly]

RE: Firestone Airbags

Talked to Toytec, they said for the RCC2.0 lift coils they use the 7.5" length airbags meant for stock springs, but cut off less of the bumpstop to compensate.

I asked if getting 9" length airbags would be ok and cut off all of the cone, they said that's ok also. I think the 9" is better so the full width of the bag hits what is left of the cone bumpstop instead of only maybe 3 - 3.5" of it (the bag is 4.75" width).

This install video shows what the cone looks like out of the truck starting at about 4:10 minutes in and the difference in width from the 4th section of the cone to the top https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNH9GjFz51I

 

[flipflopnfly]

I put the Toytec BOSS full kit on front and rear with the standard Superflex rear coils, 600lb Eibachs on the front, no diff drop, comes with preassembled fronts set to 2.5" lift. Boss Suspension System for 03-09 4Runner, 07-09 FJ

The picture on the Toytec site is inaccurate. The front coilovers do not have two adjustment collars, only one now. The pic of the adjustment spanner is wrong also, the real spanner is shorter with two pins, and it's pretty crappy IMO, dang near useless, maybe a shortcoming for Boss compared to Icon Stage One.

I put the 9" Firestone airbags in I referenced above, removed the rear sway bar (my mechanic, who does the work in my garage, installed the rear shocks before reinstalling the rear sway bar. Looking over his work, I couldn't get the sway bar in unless I disconnected the upper arms so I took it out altogether since I had airbags in).

I kept the front sway bar in with the included relocate bracket, no diff drop. It's sitting about 3" over stock front and rear. Of course the ride is better compared to the soft stock suspension, stock was way too soft.

I haven't towed with it, but I'm sure it will handle fine with the airbags as insurance against squat and sway. Offroad articulation will be fine. At full droop the airbags float inside the coils and have about 3" of clearance at the top. Sitting on level ground the airbags are compressed top and bottom, recommended to keep 5psi in them for unloaded use but that shouldn't affect offroad articulation at all.

Might have been better to go with the AirLift airbags vs Firestone. The Airlift are wider than the Firestones, so possibly they don't 'float' inside the coils, once aired up they stick to the coils.

 

[flipflopnfly]

Another note - because I removed the rear swaybar I'll have to put extended rear brakelines in. The good news I guess is the Boss rear shocks have enough travel to handle the swaybar being removed. There's probably 2" extra droop at the wheel with the rear swaybar removed.

Toytec includes in the kit rear bumpstop extenders to limit axle uptravel (not the cone bumpstops inside the coils, the bumpstops mounted to the frame). Part of the reason is to limit shock uptravel, part of the reason is so larger tires don't hit the wheelwells.

 

[flipflopnfly]

Well, goodbye Kodiak 172E hybrid trailer. Nobody liked the canvas foldouts. Too cold at night, too hot napping in the daytime. Short 19' tow length, 26' expanded, nice 52 gallon fresh water tank.

But along comes a 2008 Trailmanor 2619. We'd been looking at them as a better option. Not as good in some ways, better in others.

- Hardsided when expanded (big upside)
- 19' tow length, 26' expanded (wash)
- 40 gallon fresh tank, which is a factory option, 20g is standard (good enough)
- 30 gray, recirculating toilet, (downside)
- Fridge/freezer is half the size (downside)
- Dry weight is about the same, cargo capacity the same, GVWR the same (wash)
- Kodiak 8' wide, Trailmanor 7.7' wide (wash)
- Trailmanor low-profile, towability better (upside)
- Trailmanor no passthrough storage (downside)
- Trailmanor has big windows and a lot of them, 172E tentends have windows (wash)
- Trailmanor enclosed and insulated underbelly, 172E the same (wash)
- Stove, cabinets, wardrobe, shower, furnace, AC, water heater are a wash
- Trailmanor has factory solar (upside)
- Two 20lb LP tanks, dual batteries (wash)
- Trailmanor torsion suspension, 172E leafsprings
- 4WD road offroadability probably a wash, same ground clearance to the vitals. The 172E could handle some pretty stiff Four Corner states offroading.

The big deal is sleeping comfort.

The truck squats some in that pic, that was with 10psi in the airbags, probably have to go up to 20psi. That's fine. That's a heavy tongue weight trailer, and about 3200 dry weight. Trailer GVWR is 4190lbs per the sticker on the trailer.

 

[flipflopnfly]

Good grief, looking at my own pics the Michelin P-rated tires have to be upgraded. I'm stock 18" wheels.

I think the Yokohama Geolandar 265/65/18's AT's will work. 31.6" tire, 1" over stock.

They have a good weight rating. 51psi max tells me they can handle a load.

The awesome BFG T/A KO2 is the best and available in 265/65/18, but expensive.

That Trailmanor is NOT a lightweight trailer, despite their marketing it as such. And the tongue weight is well over 400lbs, IMO.

Ah well, better tires on the Runner hopefully I'll be done with setting it up for the trailering and offroading combo.

 

[gbouton]

Some nice camper setups in this thread, and good info too! I'm towing a Livin Lite Camplite 13QBB (16') trailer that's all aluminum and composite (no wood or fiberglass) with my '07 V8 T4R. Dry weight is about 2300, and probably close to 3,000 loaded up for a trip. It tows great, even without a WDH, and I've been averaging about 11mpg in mostly hilly interstate trips through central PA & upstate NY. No problem staying at 70mph up steep grades, although I try to stay around 65mph. I was using my 3rd gen T4R (V6 5-speed) to tow this camper previously, and while the V8 is a nice upgrade, I'm still impressed at how well the 3rd gen did.

 

[DrakeMK3]

I might as well jump in here, too. This is what we have.

4runner: 2008 V8 4wd, firestone airbags in the rear, Tekonsha P3, Reese straight line dual cam hitch (https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Dis...VfEooQYnZIjFaMAJ447Kfxjhwh0wd0HE0VxoCuj3w_wcB) but with 400 lb. bars.

Camper: It's a 2017 Gulfstream Conquest 198BH. As the model suggests, it's 19 ft. 8 inches. but add about 3 ft for the tongue and bumper. It was the same price as anything used we could find that still slept 4 without having to convert the dinette. I use a Reese weight distribution system, but the anti-sway is integrated with the weight bars, so we don't have to use the friction bar setups.

 

[vanion2]

I currently pull a FlagStaff HW27 S/C pup. GVCR is 3800# fully loaded. I average about 14-15 mpg with my 06 V8 SR5 2WD. Suspension and wheels are all stock but I do use a Pro series WDH and Firestone air bags. I can honestly say that the tow package made hooking up the brake controller as easy as simple as plugging in the connector. I always tow with O/D off because a few mpg isn't worth a new transmission. That's not me judging anyone on how they tow. Just how I do it and why. I love the ride with the air bags and WDH. I tried it without and it loaded the rear enough that the ride was harsh but then I don't off road and most of my camping is done within about 6 hours of my home city.

I just placed an order for a 2018 Prime Time Tracer 215Air. GVCR is 6100# fully loaded or 4100# dry, is 8' wide and just under 24' long. Our typical load out will put us some where in the middle of that since we are used to limited cargo from the pup and we are weekend warriors and do a lot of off grid camping. I hope to report back here some time in August with the tow updates on that much of a trailer with the 4R. Of course I am prepared to move up to a Tundra/Sequoia if I feel it's too much but judging by what I have read here I think we will be just fine.

I will post pics of the pup later in July when I get back from our last trip with it and more of the TT when we get back from our maiden voyage in August.

I specifically bought the V8 4th gen for towing since my 3rd gen was struggling with the large pup we currently have. I hope I don't have to upgrade because it is a great DD and I have it all setup just the way I like it. I don't go faster than 70 mph when towing or push it on uphill climbs.

I'm all about enjoying my trips and knowing I don't have to deal with motels/hotels, always sleeping in my own bed, and with a 4 season weather package love the fact that my TT won't be an oven in the summer or an ice box in the winter. I can cook my own meals and when I look out the windows the scenery is beautiful and new. I know it's glamping since I have all the creature comforts but I prefer to sleep great at night so I can work the hard hiking trails feeling refreshed in the morning.

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