My trans temps and 70264 to 4589 swap

[StreetCreeper]

I used to run a 70264 before. Never had any issue with AC Temps. The issue came with the bigger 4589. Since it blocks pretty much the AC condenser on the entire passengers side. I feel I've effectively decreased the condenser size by half.

Only reason I don't think it's the fan clutch is my temp gauge does not move at all at idle with the AC at full blast. 100 degrees and it still stays right below half.

I hear you and totally understand your reasoning. I was the same. I even tested my fan clutch with all the normal ways like using a rolled up magazine, listening to it, spinning it by hand etc. It passed every test with flying colors. My dash gauge never moved either; the fan clutch was still failing however.

Once I installed a ScanGauge, I saw what was really going on. Coolant temps were climbing at idle. In a controlled test, I finally stopped it at 218* and went an cooler it down by driving. No idea how high it would have gone.

In my "build thread" that isn't a build thread, I document this and it's solution (for me anyway). Here is a link to the specific post: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/2381019-post13.html

Now that I've overhauled the rest of my cooling system, I can do what I'm doing right now — which is idling in a parking lot with the a/c on full blast at 40* when its 106* outside and my coolant temp rarely goes beyond 190*

​

 

[4racer]

I hear you and totally understand your reasoning. I was the same. I even tested my fan clutch with all the normal ways like using a rolled up magazine, listening to it, spinning it by hand etc. It passed every test with flying colors. My dash gauge never moved either; the fan clutch was still failing however.

Once I installed a ScanGauge, I saw what was really going on. Coolant temps were climbing at idle. In a controlled test, I finally stopped it at 218* and went an cooler it down by driving. No idea how high it would have gone.

In my "build thread" that isn't a build thread, I document this and it's solution (for me anyway). Here is a link to the specific post: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/2381019-post13.html

Now that I've overhauled the rest of my cooling system, I can do what I'm doing right now — which is idling in a parking lot with the a/c on full blast at 40* when its 106* outside and my coolant temp rarely goes beyond 190*

​

So do you think that the large cooler is causing the problem or exposing a possibly weak fan clutch?

 

[StreetCreeper]

So do you think that the large cooler is causing the problem or exposing a possibly weak fan clutch?

Might be both. Might be a failing clutch that can't compensate for the additional heat and air flow restriction of the bigger tranny cooler.

I'm not a mechanic though, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[4racer]

Ya it kind of puts me in a bind. Change out the fan clutch and see if that solves the problem. If not. Then I have to swap coolers anyways. Debating on which route to take. I actually would be interested to here from anyone else running a 4589 against the condenser and see if they experienced any temp differences.

 

[StreetCreeper]

Ya it kind of puts me in a bind. Change out the fan clutch and see if that solves the problem. If not. Then I have to swap coolers anyways. Debating on which route to take. I actually would be interested to here from anyone else running a 4589 against the condenser and see if they experienced any temp differences.

Here's how I would look at it. If you have a 97 with original fan clutch, it can't hurt to swap it out. Most likely it isn't performing at optimal capacity anyway, so you will probably gain something even if it turns out that your bigger tranny cooler is the main culprit. It might be the cure though too.

If it is your tranny cooler, then perhaps the new fan clutch will at least help keep the a/c temps lower than before; enough so that you can live with it. And if you can't live with it, you can always sell that tranny cooler to anyone who needs one since they aren't vehicle specific.

If you had a ScanGauge, you could monitor your coolant temp better and see what is really going on too.

 

[DK327]

Here's how I would look at it. If you have a 97 with original fan clutch, it can't hurt to swap it out. Most likely it isn't performing at optimal capacity anyway, so you will probably gain something even if it turns out that your bigger tranny cooler is the main culprit. It might be the cure though too.

If it is your tranny cooler, then perhaps the new fan clutch will at least help keep the a/c temps lower than before; enough so that you can live with it. And if you can't live with it, you can always sell that tranny cooler to anyone who needs one since they aren't vehicle specific.

If you had a ScanGauge, you could monitor your coolant temp better and see what is really going on too.

This was something [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] mentioned as well in the past, regarding engine temps and thermostat jiggle valve position... He thinks it's possible that a lazy fan clutch might be the culprit, instead of the thermostat jiggle valve position that's responsible for the higher engine temps experienced by some...

I'll get a chance to test this theory this weekend when I redo my thermostat. It's initially been positioned at 12pm using Haynes manual and my engine temps hover around 202-207. I'll redo the jiggle valve at 6pm and report back, hoping for 190F. Regardless of new temps, I'll probably get a new fan clutch anyway and see if it makes any difference. It's the original from 16 years ago, wouldn't hurt to swap it out. BTW, this past weekend I (finally) installed the B&M trans cooler (in line, post radiator) and my trans temps haven't gone over 160F yet.

 

[LittleCaesar]

I was lucky enough here in the South to find some moron who had the Aisin fan clutch on CL for sale for $50, took out the original one and after installing the new one I found that the AC cooled slightly better. The varying types of weather here wreck havoc on fan clutches, almost giving them a shelf life of no more than fifteen years before they lose their ability to function well.

 

[4racer]

I picked up a vent thermometer to check my temps. At coldest even when driving I'm only getting 60F registering on the gauge. This is was the cooler installed. For fun I decided to move the cooler out of the way, so I unbolted it and let it hang below the condenser and out of the airflow path. What do you know.....still registered 60F as a low. Rev-ed to 2k and I maybe got it down to 58. Put the cooler back on and ran the same test, got the same temp of 60F. So there may be something else at play other than the cooler. Just happened to happen or notice after the cooler.

 

[185Runner]

Could you have a leak in your A/C system? Low on freon?

 

[4racer]

This was something [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] mentioned as well in the past, regarding engine temps and thermostat jiggle valve position... He thinks it's possible that a lazy fan clutch might be the culprit, instead of the thermostat jiggle valve position that's responsible for the higher engine temps experienced by some...

I'll get a chance to test this theory this weekend when I redo my thermostat. It's initially been positioned at 12pm using Haynes manual and my engine temps hover around 202-207. I'll redo the jiggle valve at 6pm and report back, hoping for 190F. Regardless of new temps, I'll probably get a new fan clutch anyway and see if it makes any difference. It's the original from 16 years ago, wouldn't hurt to swap it out. BTW, this past weekend I (finally) installed the B&M trans cooler (in line, post radiator) and my trans temps haven't gone over 160F yet.

Actually just changed that a month ago. Had it at 12 For about 20k. Started reading threads on here and pulled it and turned it to 6

 

[4racer]

Could you have a leak in your A/C system? Low on freon?

Possible. Going to have to get some gauges hooked up. Everything looks fine from the sight window. The fact that with or without the cooler I'm at 60F just makes me feel it's the fan clutch or AC system related. Odd that it happened now. Wonder if the fan isn't pulling enough air to cool down the freon enough.

 

[mtbtim]

This was something [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] mentioned as well in the past, regarding engine temps and thermostat jiggle valve position... He thinks it's possible that a lazy fan clutch might be the culprit, instead of the thermostat jiggle valve position that's responsible for the higher engine temps experienced by some...

I'll get a chance to test this theory this weekend when I redo my thermostat. It's initially been positioned at 12pm using Haynes manual and my engine temps hover around 202-207. I'll redo the jiggle valve at 6pm and report back, hoping for 190F. Regardless of new temps, I'll probably get a new fan clutch anyway and see if it makes any difference. It's the original from 16 years ago, wouldn't hurt to swap it out. BTW, this past weekend I (finally) installed the B&M trans cooler (in line, post radiator) and my trans temps haven't gone over 160F yet.

It was actually [MENTION=115590]StreetCreeper[/MENTION] (aka Woody) who has lead me to believe the fan clutch might be the culprit in many people's higher coolant temps. The whole thermostat jiggle valve position is looking more and more like it doesn't make a difference what position you have it in. Woody's original was in the 1-1:30 position. My original was in the 3 o'clock position. I installed my new thermostat in the 6 o'clock position and I haven't seen any difference in coolant temps compared to before the replacement. All that jiggle valve is doing is letting trapped air find it's way out after you've drained the coolant for whatever reason. So, it would make more sense if the valve was at the 12 o'clock position since air rises, right? I'm wondering if this is yet another mistake in the FSM and we should have all installed the jiggle valve at 12 o'clock. And, once the thermostat opens, wouldn't the jiggle valve no longer have much of a purpose? It will let some coolant flow through it, but enough to make a 10+ degree coolant temperature difference? I highly doubt it.

But, I am very curious what the results will be after you change the thermostat position. Keep us posted.

 

[4racer]

So I purchased an OND2 type reader. No scan gauge since it's a 97. My temps are at 188-194. 194 is idling with the AC on for 5 minutes. 188 is when I'm just driving at 60. So I'm guessing my fan clutch is at least adequate? There's a possibly I'm just low on R134A and just didn't notice until the temps got hot. So checking AC pressure is next.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Get the numbers and see how much you need to add.

Wallyworld has 12oz Supertech cans of 134 for under $5 at the moment.

 

[4racer]

Get the numbers and see how much you need to add.

Wallyworld has 12oz Supertech cans of 134 for under $5 at the moment.

Plan on doing that tomorrow. That should give me an idea of I'm low, good, or of its possibly my expansion valve since those seem to go on 3rd gens.

 

[DK327]

I am very curious what the results will be after you change the thermostat position. Keep us posted.

I got a chance to work on the thermostat today... When I took it apart, I discovered it was in 10pm position. I re-positioned it exactly at 6pm and took a test drive. The temps were stable at 186-190F. This is almost a 20 degree difference and I'm happy with these results. The transmission temp also remained steady at 160F.

As a side note, when I purchased this vehicle, the ABS light was on. With the paperclip method I had found out it was the right rear sensor. I was under the vehicle and traced the sensor wire and discovered it was damaged. After fixing it and disconnecting the negative terminal of battery for 20 minutes, I'm happy to report no more ABS light.

 

[Roc Doc]

I got a chance to work on the thermostat today... When I took it apart, I discovered it was in 10pm position. I re-positioned it exactly at 6pm and took a test drive. The temps were stable at 186-190F. This is almost a 20 degree difference and I'm happy with these results. The transmission temp also remained steady at 160F.

As a side note, when I purchased this vehicle, the ABS light was on. With the paperclip method I had found out it was the right rear sensor. I was under the vehicle and traced the sensor wire and discovered it was damaged. After fixing it and disconnecting the negative terminal of battery for 20 minutes, I'm happy to report no more ABS light.

Gotta love free fixes!

 

[mtbtim]

I got a chance to work on the thermostat today... When I took it apart, I discovered it was in 10pm position. I re-positioned it exactly at 6pm and took a test drive. The temps were stable at 186-190F. This is almost a 20 degree difference and I'm happy with these results. The transmission temp also remained steady at 160F.

As a side note, when I purchased this vehicle, the ABS light was on. With the paperclip method I had found out it was the right rear sensor. I was under the vehicle and traced the sensor wire and discovered it was damaged. After fixing it and disconnecting the negative terminal of battery for 20 minutes, I'm happy to report no more ABS light.

Well, even though you have definitive results by changing your jiggle valve position, I still don't get why it made a difference for you and not for others. You would think my original thermostat with the jiggle valve at the 3 o'clock position would have made my coolant temperatures higher but they didn't. With the new thermostat at the 6 o'clock position, my coolant temps are exactly the same as before. And then others put there's at the 12 o'clock position based off using a Haynes repair manual or suggestions on forums and haven't experienced the higher temps you were seeing. [MENTION=115590]StreetCreeper[/MENTION] found his original at the 1:30 position and he fixed his high coolant temps by replacing the fan clutch and not by repositioning the jiggle valve.

Pretty confusing and hard to grasp the position of that little jiggle valve could cause a 20 degree difference but I'm glad you got your coolant temps down with this easy adjustment.

 

[StreetCreeper]

It was actually [MENTION=115590]StreetCreeper[/MENTION] (aka Woody) who has lead me to believe the fan clutch might be the culprit in many people's higher coolant temps. The whole thermostat jiggle valve position is looking more and more like it doesn't make a difference what position you have it in. Woody's original was in the 1-1:30 position. My original was in the 3 o'clock position. I installed my new thermostat in the 6 o'clock position and I haven't seen any difference in coolant temps compared to before the replacement. All that jiggle valve is doing is letting trapped air find it's way out after you've drained the coolant for whatever reason. So, it would make more sense if the valve was at the 12 o'clock position since air rises, right? I'm wondering if this is yet another mistake in the FSM and we should have all installed the jiggle valve at 12 o'clock. And, once the thermostat opens, wouldn't the jiggle valve no longer have much of a purpose? It will let some coolant flow through it, but enough to make a 10+ degree coolant temperature difference? I highly doubt it.

But, I am very curious what the results will be after you change the thermostat position. Keep us posted.

I'm really starting to wonder if original thermostats were slightly different. Original thermostats seem to work just fine at 1 o'clock or so — yet OEM replacements do not.

Makes think that the originals were different in some small way since even the FSM says 6 o'clock yet I and many others (you too I think) can vouch for the fact that the originals worked fine when not at the 6 o'clock position.

I compared the original one an OEM and they are nearly identical visually, but there could easily be changes unseen that might be causing the temp differences acording to t-stat orientation.

If I wasn't so lazy, I would change my OEM t-stat to 1:30 o'clock and note the temp.

 

[StreetCreeper]

Well, even though you have definitive results by changing your jiggle valve position, I still don't get why it made a difference for you and not for others. You would think my original thermostat with the jiggle valve at the 3 o'clock position would have made my coolant temperatures higher but they didn't. With the new thermostat at the 6 o'clock position, my coolant temps are exactly the same as before. And then others put there's at the 12 o'clock position based off using a Haynes repair manual or suggestions on forums and haven't experienced the higher temps you were seeing. [MENTION=115590]StreetCreeper[/MENTION] found his original at the 1:30 position and he fixed his high coolant temps by replacing the fan clutch and not by repositioning the jiggle valve.

Pretty confusing and hard to grasp the position of that little jiggle valve could cause a 20 degree difference but I'm glad you got your coolant temps down with this easy adjustment.

I think as a matter of course, anyone changing out their thermostats should position it at 6 o'clock since I haven't seen anyone say that the 6 position actually raised their coolant temps. In my case there was essentially no change, but again, who knows what the temp would be if I flipped the replacement around to where the original was.

Perhaps it will just have to remain a mystery.