Need help/advice buying 4R

[DEERUNNER]

Purchasing below sticker is the easy part. Many (Most!) dealers are willing to beat another by a couple hundred bucks. But do they actually have the vehicle one wants? Without anything added that you don't want? Be aware that the profit is made when one meets the Accessory person, and the Options person, and the Finance person. Don't add anything you don't want. Know your Credit Score and know what the going rate for a qualified loan is. You will do fine if you have advance knowledge and feel secure in that knowledge.

 

[NuclearN8]

here's my experience and would be my plan if in your shoes...

buying the last week of the month gets you the best deal (especially if their monthly sales numbers are low), buying the last week of the month during the month that ends the manufacturers fiscal year should yield you the best deal possible because dealers allotment in the coming year are usually based off units moved (at least they use to be).
Sell more units = Receive more units from a dealer perspective...

So spend 3-4 days searching internet and phone for the car you want this week. (I never talk price over the phone or email and if they try I simply ignore them)

By thursday narrow it down to 3 4Runners from 3 different dealers and visit each one personally. Take one of the 3 for a test drive (assuming their all the same model).
At the dealers you don't test drive just walk in and meet with your contact from the phone or internet and work the best deal possible. (I tell them I'm coming to buy and ready to buy (but I'm really walking out regardless what they put on paper)... then walk away from all 3 dealers with their "best offers" in hand and ask them to be good for 48 hours.
Go back home, pour a glass of wine or beer or your beverage of choice, Research some more... do some yoga, go fishing, relax.... whatever take some deep breaths...
let them call you after 48 hours has expired. hmm and hah about how you're still not sure but you may come back in the next few days... make them feel like you think the numbers can still be better, then hang up on all of them.

On Monday after lunch (and you have a full stomach since you'll be there a while usually) go buy the 4Runner you want from the same contact (call them with 30 minutes notice saying you're coming in and want to see the vehicle again in person). Negotiate another $500 off their best offer you got 48-72 hours ago, then tell them you also have a trade to work into the deal. Tell them also you'll finance the 4Runner (the dealer usually gets a small kickback for getting a buyer to use TFS)... then on the first payment, pay it off in full to avoid the interest charges.

(Decline all extra warranties and tell them you're not paying for any crap installed at the dealer).

This would be my plan of attack. Good luck.

 

[GreyDawg]

OK, folks, this is getting even more interesting. And sooooo much more interesting than finishing my tax return.

Philsey: Yep, when you ask for the Moroney sticker by name, their eyes glaze over. I found that out in 2000. The ones here in Austin with all the add-ons don't even have a Moroney sticker; just the dealer's "Simplified" or "EZ price" sticker. Yeah, right.

NuclearN8: thanks for the detailed strategy. That sounds good, except that I think I'll have to buy out-of-state (Colorado? see below), and I'm not sure how it would work long distance. But certainly the refusal to buy any dealer installed fluff works anywhere. Maybe get them to the 48 hour wait point by email/phone, and head up to Colorado then, prepared for the final round?

Now, another question: I'll be a cash buyer (or cash + trade). Does that make the deal more attractive or less attractive? On the one hand they don't have to worry about whether I qualify for financing. On the other hand, they don't get any revenue from financing. So, is this a negotiating strength or weakness?

And now the late afternoon update -- and the latest confusion.

First, effective 2014 you couldn't get a sun/moonroof as an option on an SR5. It only comes on an SR5 Premium. Sigh. That becomes a pricey sunroof. Dang. They are soooo nice when camping, for ventilation and stargazing -- not to mention letting hot air escape when parked in the summer sun.

Following the most excellent suggestions here, I checked the websites of Ressler (Bozeman, MT), Autonation Arapaho (Centennial CO), Toyota of Dallas, Toyota of Ft Worth, and Pat Loeb in McKinney as suggested.

Sure 'nuf, MT and CO mostly have 4WD. Not so much in Texas. Duh.

What really puzzles me is how to interpret the Autonation website. For example, they have 16 SR5's at $4,400 off MSRP or $32,174. I can't tell much about them as they all have factory pictures and minimal descreiption. They have three SR5-P at $35,659 ($3,000 off MSRP) and three Trails at $35,954 ($3,200 off MSRP). Near as I can tell, these have not been gunked up with lucrative add-ons by the dealer or the distributor.

So what's going on? No one in Texas is showing prices nearly as good as these. Ressler's prices are better than Texas, but not this good. The SR5 prices rival what I'm seeing here for 3yo used. And in some cases, they're better than the used 2014 4Rs on the Arapahoe website.

I have this horrible feeling that this is a classic "bait and switch" but, as we have established, I know nothing.

I assume also that they will super-lowball a trade, or when they actually see the trade then backtrack -- and if you've driven from Texas, what do you do?

Can I take the Arapahoe internet listed price to a DFW area Toyota dealer and ask them to find the same 4R and match the price? Or is that a fool's errand? (Speaking of errands, I'm off work for the next two weeks and can road trip as required.)

Thanks, everyone, for your continued input. I'm slowly learning how this fascinating game works, especially when one dealer appears to be so much better than the others.

Cheers!

 

[1engineer]

There's really only one good strategy when you trade. This is called the "difference" and one the dealers hate and I use it all the time. The reason they hate it is it makes them actually work. Basically its this:

Example:
You have a vehicle that you think is worth say $10K after you researched it on edmunds or autotrader.
They have a vehicle that has a Toyota MSRP (btw its required by law that this is displayed on every new vehicle) of say $38K.
After researching you determine the invoice is $35K.
This leaves a difference of $28K.
You go to the dealer and tell them you will take it for $28K difference out the door.
You don't care what they are charging for theirs or what they give you for yours. All you care about is the difference. Let them figure it out.

 

[wfo9]

If you are doing a trade go to carmax and get an appraisal. This becomes your worst case scenario for money on your current vehicle. Very easy and painless. Never go to a dealer and attempt a trade without having this written appraisal in your hand from carmax. It might not be the best money for it... but most dealers will beat it by $500 as SOP.

If you are doing a deal out of town they will often ask you to go get the appraisal at carmax and they will honor it to do the deal and save a little on taxes...

Again, my best advice. Never deal at the dealership or in person (it is a loosing game and a waste of your time). It can all be done over the phone/email. Only thing that needs to happen in person is final inspection, paperwork, and delivery. Refuse all extras, service plans, extended warranties.... (total rip offs no matter how you slice it). Just tell the finance guy up front, I won't buy anything extra no matter how good of a deal you present me. Don't be intimidated... and don't try to become friends with them, don't be rude, but don't play the lets get to know each other game. It's a stupid car and there is no relationship no matter how many times they say it.

I would personally skip the sunroof. Just something to go wrong down the road IMHO. Most Toyota techs will tell you the same thing. Keep it as simple as possible.

 

[Landy]

I just bought my 4Runner this past October and I did have to leave Austin, but not too far. Feel free to send me a PM if you'd like more info on the deal I got or where I went. I'd be happy to help!

 

[philsey]

Philsey: Yep, when you ask for the Moroney sticker by name, their eyes glaze over. I found that out in 2000. The ones here in Austin with all the add-ons don't even have a Moroney sticker; just the dealer's "Simplified" or "EZ price" sticker. Yeah, right.

Amazing, that's ballsy .... illegal actually. I'd not trust them.
WIKIPEDIA:
"The Monroney sticker or window sticker is a label required in the United States to be displayed in all new automobiles and includes the listing of certain official information about the car...... Monroney sponsored the Automobile Information Disclosure Act of 1958, which mandated disclosure of information on new automobiles."

Now, another question: I'll be a cash buyer (or cash + trade). Does that make the deal more attractive or less attractive? On the one hand they don't have to worry about whether I qualify for financing. On the other hand, they don't get any revenue from financing. So, is this a negotiating strength or weakness?

Now that's a good question, you may not get a clear answer on this. I'm a cash buyer too, and I guess the answer is "it depends on the deal". I bought my wife a new Accord recently, and Honda Finance offered an additional $500 discount to those with excellent credit. I took it, made two payments, then paid it off. There aren't often deals from Toyota on 4Rs tho.

What really puzzles me is how to interpret the Autonation website. For example, they have 16 SR5's at $4,400 off MSRP or $32,174. I can't tell much about them as they all have factory pictures and minimal descreiption. They have three SR5-P at $35,659 ($3,000 off MSRP) and three Trails at $35,954 ($3,200 off MSRP). Near as I can tell, these have not been gunked up with lucrative add-ons by the dealer or the distributor.

Yeah ... right. IMO, everything above the Monroney is profit-building fluff. All of these have h-u-g-e margins. Your best buying tool is knowledge and determination. This is just like your job, you have to work at it to make (save) money.

As to the trade, remember this; the dealer is a business - just like where you work. They HAVE to make a profit to stay alive, (they hope) on every car they sell, including re-selling your trade. Don't be unrealistic about this. Take [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] 's advice - he always owns 4 cars and buys/trades on average two a year.

 

[GreyDawg]

Amazing, that's ballsy .... illegal actually. I'd not trust them.
WIKIPEDIA:
"The Monroney sticker or window sticker is a label required in the United States to be displayed in all new automobiles and includes the listing of certain official information about the car...... Monroney sponsored the Automobile Information Disclosure Act of 1958, which mandated disclosure of information on new automobiles."

I just went to the Toyota dealership that has the lousy reputation and no Monroney sticker on any 4Runner or Tacoma, though they did have the stickers on the lot full of Camrys, etc. I chatted with the salesguy, drove a couple of 4Runners, picked up the literature and then asked about the absent Monroney stickers and in their place, the small dealers "selling price" sticker.

He quickly assured me that they have all the Monroney stickers, and I'd get a copy with all of my paperwork, but that technically all of the vehicles without the sticker are still in the dealer prep area .... and 4Runners and Tacomas fly out of there so fast that they never reach the actual sales lot...

Yeah, just confirms their reputation. But I did get the literature and I did get to drive an SR5 Premium 4WD and a Trail. So mission accomplished!

 

[philsey]

....
He quickly assured me that they have all the Monroney stickers, and I'd get a copy with all of my paperwork, but that technically all of the vehicles without the sticker are still in the dealer prep area .... and 4Runners and Tacomas fly out of there so fast that they never reach the actual sales lot...

Sales-speak for "these are in demand, and in short supply, so that's our story to hose the uninformed buyer". Dirtbags. Do ppl believe that shite?

I wonder: does the Monroney come on the vehicle from the port, or in the glovebox for the dealer to affix? Anyone know?

..... and in their place, the small dealers "selling price" sticker.

Almost funny. So, they can't put the proper sticker on because they're still "in prep" --- but they can put their own sticker on. :noidea:

 

[DesertCanyons]

Good buying strategies and some that won't work

There's really only one good strategy when you trade. This is called the "difference" and one the dealers hate and I use it all the time. The reason they hate it is it makes them actually work. Basically its this:

Example:
You have a vehicle that you think is worth say $10K after you researched it on edmunds or autotrader.
They have a vehicle that has a Toyota MSRP (btw its required by law that this is displayed on every new vehicle) of say $38K.
After researching you determine the invoice is $35K.
This leaves a difference of $28K.
You go to the dealer and tell them you will take it for $28K difference out the door.
You don't care what they are charging for theirs or what they give you for yours. All you care about is the difference. Let them figure it out.

This is an interesting strategy. I gather from the numbers that you're asking the dealer to either
A) sell the car for MSRP and give you $10,000 for the trade-in (full value)
or
B) sell the new car to you for the Invoice price and give you $7000 for your trade (70% of Kelly Blue Book or whatever CarMax says it's worth).
Either way the dealer stands to make $3000 on this example, which might be a fair profit.

There's lots of other good advice here in this thread from everyone. I read it all and am taking notes. I'll be in the same boat as Grey Dawg in a couple of months.

I see one problem with asking the dealer to remove the Fluff he's added. In the case of the sliding rear deck, the track and storage compartment under the deck are cut into the floor of the T4R. Removing that would leave a gapping hole in the cargo floor and/or carpeting. Same problem with a 3rd row seat. The remote starter is another example. I don't know how integral that is with the steering column or how hard it might be to remove. And did you know Jeep won't add a remote starter button to a stick shift Wrangler. Go Figure! :noidea: lol
I think some of these options are added in the factory and could not be removed.
The T4Rs do not include floor carpets or mud mats. But I have not seen one that does not include this "extra". As if anyone would use a car without removable, replaceable floor mats. Some of the aftermarket mats are better than Toyota mats, especially the all-weather mud mats.

Of course, there are a dozen or more accessories that can be added to the T4R by the dealer that drive the price up. Most of these are fluff - stuff I wouldn't want.

Another flaw with some of the strategy I read here is that a lot of these T4Rs will disappear off the dealers lot as soon as they appear. You can't negotiate for a week with a car that's going to sell within 5 days.

Here in Los Angeles I have a hard time finding a Trail Edition. All of the TRD Pro I saw were sold the day they arrived on the lot.

Thanks again everyone. I'm saving this thread for later.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

That sounds good, except that I think I'll have to buy out-of-state (Colorado? see below), and I'm not sure how it would work long distance. But certainly the refusal to buy any dealer installed fluff works anywhere. Maybe get them to the 48 hour wait point by email/phone, and head up to Colorado then, prepared for the final round?

Autonation Arapaho (Centennial CO)

Sure 'nuf, MT and CO mostly have 4WD. Not so much in Texas. Duh.

What really puzzles me is how to interpret the Autonation website. For example, they have 16 SR5's at $4,400 off MSRP or $32,174. I can't tell much about them as they all have factory pictures and minimal descreiption. They have three SR5-P at $35,659 ($3,000 off MSRP) and three Trails at $35,954 ($3,200 off MSRP). Near as I can tell, these have not been gunked up with lucrative add-ons by the dealer or the distributor.

Cheers!

I can tell you a couple things about Arapahoe Toyota-Scion in Colorado as thats where my '15 TE came from and I have been buying parts there for years.

Last time I was at the dealer they had a very good selection of SR-5's and LE's. Trails are hard to come by here in Colorado and none of the dealers will budge much on the price of them.

I had a very specific option list I wanted on my TE and the first time I went to look they only had one sitting in the back lot (Silver) and it was already spoken for before it got off the truck.

So, Greg (internet sales) and I went in and he plugged in Attitude Black, KDSS, Entune Premium, Rigid Running Boards etc.. and lo and behold there was one in Long Beach getting ready to be loaded on the truck.

I asked him to call the minute it came in. Told him I wanted to see it in the back lot, didn't want anybody driving it, etc... He strongly recommended I put a deposit on it but I had to figure out whether I was going to trade my 3rd gen in or sell it myself, etc... and didn't want to commit yet to that extent.

Sure enough I got a text from him saying it was in. I was in the next day and was driving away after 2.5 hours. Although I was pre-approved through CU Direct at 3.19% (best rate they had then) they managed to get me 1.99% through TFS.

The $500 30th Anniversary discount (it varied between the SR5, LE and TE) was just the icing on the cake.

All in all very good experience and I am pretty confident that if you are looking for an SR5 you will do pretty good there.

I am assuming you are looking for 4WD. 2WD 4Runners are extremely rare in Colorado and about as useful as tits on a bull with our weather.

 

[1engineer]

This is an interesting strategy. I gather from the numbers that you're asking the dealer to either
A) sell the car for MSRP and give you $10,000 for the trade-in (full value)
or
B) sell the new car to you for the Invoice price and give you $7000 for your trade (70% of Kelly Blue Book or whatever CarMax says it's worth).
Either way the dealer stands to make $3000 on this example, which might be a fair profit.

There's lots of other good advice here in this thread from everyone. I read it all and am taking notes. I'll be in the same boat as Grey Dawg in a couple of months.

I see one problem with asking the dealer to remove the Fluff he's added. In the case of the sliding rear deck, the track and storage compartment under the deck are cut into the floor of the T4R. Removing that would leave a gapping hole in the cargo floor and/or carpeting. Same problem with a 3rd row seat. The remote starter is another example. I don't know how integral that is with the steering column or how hard it might be to remove. And did you know Jeep won't add a remote starter button to a stick shift Wrangler. Go Figure! :noidea: lol
I think some of these options are added in the factory and could not be removed.
The T4Rs do not include floor carpets or mud mats. But I have not seen one that does not include this "extra". As if anyone would use a car without removable, replaceable floor mats. Some of the aftermarket mats are better than Toyota mats, especially the all-weather mud mats.

Of course, there are a dozen or more accessories that can be added to the T4R by the dealer that drive the price up. Most of these are fluff - stuff I wouldn't want.

Another flaw with some of the strategy I read here is that a lot of these T4Rs will disappear off the dealers lot as soon as they appear. You can't negotiate for a week with a car that's going to sell within 5 days.

Here in Los Angeles I have a hard time finding a Trail Edition. All of the TRD Pro I saw were sold the day they arrived on the lot.

Thanks again everyone. I'm saving this thread for later.

Not quite: start at above high book for your trade and invoice for the new vehicle. Have in mind a realistic difference also. Let them counter and if you are within your range then buy it.
This way the actual values for trade, msrp, add ons, doc fees etc don't matter to you. It does to them though. Bottom line if you are financing the difference is the most important number.

 

[GreyDawg]

I wonder: does the Monroney come on the vehicle from the port, or in the glovebox for the dealer to affix? Anyone know?

I'm going to guess on the vehicle from the port. That's the only way I can explain the 8.5 x 11 gooey residue and paper shreds on the passenger rear window ....

But of course, it isn't removed for duplicity. It's removed so that they can tint the windows. So clearly it is in the best interest of the shopper to remove it ...

 

[GreyDawg]

I can tell you a couple things about Arapahoe Toyota-Scion in Colorado as thats where my '15 TE came from and I have been buying parts there for years.

All in all very good experience and I am pretty confident that if you are looking for an SR5 you will do pretty good there.

I am assuming you are looking for 4WD. 2WD 4Runners are extremely rare in Colorado and about as useful as tits on a bull with our weather.

Thanks for the good feedback about Arapahoe. Yes, I'm looking for a 4WD, and those are extremely rare down in central Texas. Still sitting on the fence about SR5 or SR5 Premium. Trail seems overkill, since I'm not an off-roader (just logging roads, dirt tracks, and some snow if I'm really lucky.)

Meanwhile, I've learned a bit more about AutoNation and about the Gulf States Toyota distributorship. It's pretty interesting -- at least it is for me.

The discounted price on the Arapahoe page are marked "SmartChoice" price. This is AutoNation's version of the Costco/AAA/TruCar "no haggle" price -- they're just cutting out the third party referrals. In Florida, they're rolling out a SmartChoice Express program that lets you do everything online, and in the end spend less than 30 minutes at the dealership (or so they claim). It is, in fact, a bit more transparent than TruCar (and I assume Costco and AAA) because TruCar only gives a discount off MSRP, not all the fluff. You still have to haggle about not paying for the fluff.

So that explains the systematic deep discounts (like, $4,400 on the SR5). They're legit (and apparently you can still haggle a bit).

Next, I emailed AutoNation Toyota in Austin, and asked if they could match the Arapahoe price. Here's the sales manager's reply: "Because of regional prices variances and Gulf States Toyota I can not match that price."

Ah. Gulf States Toyota is one of two privately owned Toyota Distributorships in the US. The other is in the southeast. And, according to an article on "Tundra Headquarters:"

The problem is that both of these distribution companies are able to exercise a surprising amount of control over the Toyota’s they sell. As distributors, Gulf States Toyota and Southeast Toyota are allowed to:

• change vehicle pricing and adjust sales incentives
• “load up” new Toyota’s with accessories that the distributors install themselves, thus denying Toyota a small amount of profit while simultaneously forcing consumers in their region to buy accessories they might not otherwise want
• increase the cost of replacement parts, change sales and service processes, etc.

Essentially, Gulf States Toyota and Southeast Toyota are the very definition of “middle men.” They don’t manufacture the vehicles, nor do they sell them (franchised dealers still hold that responsibility). These distributors just add on equipment, monkey with pricing and incentives, and then sit back and collect their checks.​

And on the Monroney stickers at the Round Rock Toyota dealership, I had noticed that all the T4R's had $1000 to $1500 of "distributor installed options". So get out of GST's region (go north or west) and get better prices, and un-fluffed vehicles.

Interesting, eh?

 

[1engineer]

Thanks for the good feedback about Arapahoe. Yes, I'm looking for a 4WD, and those are extremely rare down in central Texas. Still sitting on the fence about SR5 or SR5 Premium. Trail seems overkill, since I'm not an off-roader (just logging roads, dirt tracks, and some snow if I'm really lucky.)

Meanwhile, I've learned a bit more about AutoNation and about the Gulf States Toyota distributorship. It's pretty interesting -- at least it is for me.

The discounted price on the Arapahoe page are marked "SmartChoice" price. This is AutoNation's version of the Costco/AAA/TruCar "no haggle" price -- they're just cutting out the third party referrals. In Florida, they're rolling out a SmartChoice Express program that lets you do everything online, and in the end spend less than 30 minutes at the dealership (or so they claim). It is, in fact, a bit more transparent than TruCar (and I assume Costco and AAA) because TruCar only gives a discount off MSRP, not all the fluff. You still have to haggle about not paying for the fluff.

So that explains the systematic deep discounts (like, $4,400 on the SR5). They're legit (and apparently you can still haggle a bit).

Next, I emailed AutoNation Toyota in Austin, and asked if they could match the Arapahoe price. Here's the sales manager's reply: "Because of regional prices variances and Gulf States Toyota I can not match that price."

Ah. Gulf States Toyota is one of two privately owned Toyota Distributorships in the US. The other is in the southeast. And, according to an article on "Tundra Headquarters:"

The problem is that both of these distribution companies are able to exercise a surprising amount of control over the Toyota’s they sell. As distributors, Gulf States Toyota and Southeast Toyota are allowed to:

• change vehicle pricing and adjust sales incentives
• “load up” new Toyota’s with accessories that the distributors install themselves, thus denying Toyota a small amount of profit while simultaneously forcing consumers in their region to buy accessories they might not otherwise want
• increase the cost of replacement parts, change sales and service processes, etc.

Essentially, Gulf States Toyota and Southeast Toyota are the very definition of “middle men.” They don’t manufacture the vehicles, nor do they sell them (franchised dealers still hold that responsibility). These distributors just add on equipment, monkey with pricing and incentives, and then sit back and collect their checks.​

And on the Monroney stickers at the Round Rock Toyota dealership, I had noticed that all the T4R's had $1000 to $1500 of "distributor installed options". So get out of GST's region (go north or west) and get better prices, and un-fluffed vehicles.

Interesting, eh?

Not at all. Its nothing more than upselling like every single business does. Take what you read at the Tundra forum with a grain of salt. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to buy from them and you can buy or not. If you don't like their practice forget them and go somewhere else. There are good dealers and bad dealers in every region Toyota region and Toyota does not hold a monopoly on having bad dealers. All makes of vehicles have their good and bad dealers so choose wisely.

 

[philsey]

This might help you ...

Determining Your Region for Toyota Deals
Toyota divides the country into 12 regions, offering different deals in each. The territories are listed below. As you research your purchase, keep in mind that you’re not limited to the region you live in.
If there is a significantly better deal available in another region, it might be worth the trouble to travel and buy there. If someone offered you a few thousand dollars to drive to a nearby state and back, you might very well take the deal -- why not make the same drive to save that money on a new car? Once you know your region, make sure you check out the Best Toyota deals available to you.
New England Region -- Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island
Greater New York Region -- New York, New Jersey, Connecticut
Central Atlantic Region -- Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, Delaware, District of Columbia
Southeast Region -- North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida
Western Region -- Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota
Ohio Valley Region -- Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Tennessee
Midwest Region -- Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Mountain Region -- Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming
Gulf States Region -- Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi
Northern CA Region -- California north of the Los Angeles metro area
Southern CA Region -- Los Angeles metro area, and areas south
Pacific Northwest Region -- Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana

 

[NoDak]

love it when trying to quote and the reply box is empty.

anyway on the Gulf States Toyota and SE Toyota. for those that don't understand.

its like the CARB (California Air Resources Board) and the Clean Air Act.

these are the people that can actually say "I can have my cake and eat it too"

but I have to admit they have packages/options that would be nice to have in a vehicle that you normally cant get from Toyota at times.

 

[Rbiggers]

Not at all. Its nothing more than upselling like every single business does. Take what you read at the Tundra forum with a grain of salt. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to buy from them and you can buy or not. If you don't like their practice forget them and go somewhere else. There are good dealers and bad dealers in every region Toyota region and Toyota does not hold a monopoly on having bad dealers. All makes of vehicles have their good and bad dealers so choose wisely.

Words of wisdom above. I love buying vehicles and enjoy the process (strange I know). I have run into great dealers and horrible dealers within the same makes of vehicles. I've never noticed terrible dealers all being tied to the same brand. And I've seen a dealer go from good to work with to terrible within a few years (management change I'm assuming). Due to that experience, I normally visit three or more dealers every single time I buy a vehicle, even if I absolutely loved the dealer I dealt with last. As 1engineer said, choose wisely.

 

[GreyDawg]

Thanks, Philsey. As I've said I'm a complete noob regarding the consumer auto industry, so every little bit helps as I learn about things that so many of you take for granted.

For others: I wasn't suggesting that GST is being evil in adding distributor options and controlling pricing by dealers. Of course that's pretty standard practice in many industries. I was just sharing what I had learned (which may be useful to other noobs). In my case, it means that the Mountain Region will probably be my target search area.

Again, thanks to everyone for their coaching!

 

[Bevo]

Thanks, Philsey. As I've said I'm a complete noob regarding the consumer auto industry, so every little bit helps as I learn about things that so many of you take for granted.

For others: I wasn't suggesting that GST is being evil in adding distributor options and controlling pricing by dealers. Of course that's pretty standard practice in many industries. I was just sharing what I had learned (which may be useful to other noobs). In my case, it means that the Mountain Region will probably be my target search area.

Again, thanks to everyone for their coaching!

You could also place an order for the vehicle that you want and not have any distributor installed options to deal with. That is what I did with mine.