need help deciding

[jmagic]

I have been looking at the 5th gen 4runners since they came out, and am now ready to purchase, but cannot decide what route to go. I want 4wd, and plan to do some occassional offroading, but am also concerned about day to day driving.

I have test driven the SR5, Limited, and Trail with KDDS. I was not comfortable with the amount of body roll and nose diving on the SR5, but the limited and the Trail with KDDS were fine, so my question is.....

How do the following compare

SR5 with aftermarket suspension like the toyotec/bilstein, king offroad racing, etc....
vs.
Trail w/KDDS
vs.
Limited

any insight and recommendations on aftermarket suspension?

 

[Jtraskell]

Can't speak to the after market suspension, but I can tell you that much of the body roll and even a lot of the nose dive seemed to disappear when I got rid of those dam OEM tires and went to a stiffer side wall LT Load Range D tire. And, had the Castor adjusted for better steering. Just saying.....

Good luck on your choice and be safe.

 

[KCcarguy]

I was very unhappy with my SR5's ride, handling, and brake-dive. It was bad enough I had to decide whether to spend money on aftermarket suspension or cut my losses and sell the truck. On the advice of forum members, I went for a toytec ultimate lift with SAW 1.5" coils in the rear (supposedly 0.5" shorter than the toytec springs). I could not be happier with the ride. All of the bobbing and drifting on rough roads, the body-lean, and the break-dive are nearly eliminated......or at least reduced to the amount I've experienced on my previous trucks.

So, in short, the answer is: Yes. The toytec lift will solve your problems. BUT, it's a slippery slope: first the lift, then you need new tires, then wheel spacers or wider wheels, etc., etc. I'm not the modding type, I've always been pretty content driving stock trucks with tire upgrades at most. Unfortunately, the SR5 was SO BAD it almost requires that you do mods just to get it up to snuff. In the end, the modding gets addictive...but that's another topic.

People will say "it's a truck, what do you expect?" but the fact is the stock SR5 handles worse than any other truck I or my family have owned (Jeep Wrangler, Ford Ranger 4x4, Ford Explorer, Tacoma, Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4th gen 4runner). I don't know what Toyota was thinking when they tuned the suspension for the SR5.

So, you'll be OK either way. But if I had to do it over again, I'd go with a TE with KDSS and upgrade the tires in 275/70-17 at most....and maybe some bilstein 5100's to reduce brake dive and level the truck. That's the perfect package IMO. The Limited is a good option too with the XREAS and luxo-bits.

Just my $0.02

 

[Jtraskell]

Agree with KCcarguy, whatever model you decide to get, change out the tires first. Then see about the ride. Then if you need to go further, have at it.

 

[4Run4YourLife]

In my opinion...

SR5 - Good choice for those that plan to do lots of mods (suspension, lift, tires, bumpers, etc) to get a custom offroader. Why pay extra for something that will be stripped off and replaced?

Limited - Good choice for those that stick to the pavement and want comfy ride. Still capable, but not ideal for heavy trails.

Trail - Good choice for those that hit the trails hard, but don't want to go crazy modding the suspension of their new ride.

 

[Laubage]

From what my dealer told me (makes sense to me) when I bought my TE, KDSS doesn't help your on road handling. The only thing it does is help articulation during offroading.

I think what makes the TE handle better is the upgraded sway bar vs the SR5. I had an 2011 SR5 and then upgraded to the 2012 TE w/o KDSS and it handles 100% better.

 

[sandcrawler]

From what my dealer told me (makes sense to me) when I bought my TE, KDSS doesn't help your on road handling. The only thing it does is help articulation during offroading.

I think what makes the TE handle better is the upgraded sway bar vs the SR5. I had an 2011 SR5 and then upgraded to the 2012 TE w/o KDSS and it handles 100% better.

KDSS improves on-road ride too. the thicker swaybars allow more travel when off-roading and firm up while on-road, reducing body roll. my TE handles way better than my previous '06 SE with XREAS.

Toyota Land Cruiser 150 - KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System) - YouTube

 

[phillyd2]

In my opinion...

Whew! You had me worried for a second that some of it was actually true. :nono:

 

[Jeeves]

forgive the naive question, but -

If you have a TE without KDSS does it have the upgraded sway bars - or will it pretty much handle like a stock SR5?

Thanks,
-Raj

 

[icsa]

From what my dealer told me (makes sense to me) when I bought my TE, KDSS doesn't help your on road handling. The only thing it does is help articulation during offroading.

I think what makes the TE handle better is the upgraded sway bar vs the SR5. I had an 2011 SR5 and then upgraded to the 2012 TE w/o KDSS and it handles 100% better.

Only those with KDSS have bigger sway bars: http://www.top4runners.com/runhist/5thgen/2012_info.pdf

If I remember correctly, Harper was saying that TEs come with different springs, so maybe that is why you feel it handles "100% better".

 

[KCcarguy]

From what my dealer told me (makes sense to me) when I bought my TE, KDSS doesn't help your on road handling. The only thing it does is help articulation during offroading.

I think what makes the TE handle better is the upgraded sway bar vs the SR5. I had an 2011 SR5 and then upgraded to the 2012 TE w/o KDSS and it handles 100% better.

KDSS improves on-road ride too. the thicker swaybars allow more travel when off-roading and firm up while on-road, reducing body roll. my TE handles way better than my previous '06 SE with XREAS.

Toyota Land Cruiser 150 - KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System) - YouTube

Thicker swaybars improve handling but also reduce suspension travel. KDSS allows you to have the best of both worlds. It doesn't necessarily have MORE travel than a SR5.

 

[Barry694]

Have SR5 with convenience package. The day I purchased I went to independent tire shop and sold them the Bridgestones for $400 which was put toward their Michelin MS2's. The handling and ride is greatly improved. I had Bridgestone on previous vehicle and knew that they would not give me the ride and control that I wanted. The MS2's installed were $900 , so with the swap I was out $500, and well worth it.

 

[4Run4YourLife]

Whew! You had me worried for a second that some of it was actually true. :nono:

I was just giving the OP a basic breakdown. You are welcome to steer the OP in the "right" direction. :uzi:

I actually thought of your ride specifically when I posted that, but didn't feel I needed to put in a disclaimer that anything is possible for any of the packages and the choice really comes down to personal preference.

Disclaimer: Any and all 4runners can be modded to the moon. Anything is possible. Nothing in my statements is definitive and are only the opinion of a 2 time 4runner owner. I spend 98.463% of my miles on the hard stuff now, so take everything said by me with a big grain of salt. There are better resources on this forum than myself.

SR5 - More of a blank canvas for a modding artist to work on. The stock setup leaves a little to be desired on and off the road. The modding possibilities are endless and the price is the best of all three options. This is a good place to start if you plan on heavy customization.

Limited - A more luxurious canvas with a suspension that may limit a modder without its removal. The XREAS is a good suspension though and will perform nicely on and off the road. The 20" wheels will probably need to be replaced if you are serious about hitting the trails. The 20's are narrow (7") and have few options for replacement. The approach and departure angles are not as good as the TE. Body modifications may be needed. It is about $10k more that an SR5. That is a lot of $$$ for mods to an SR5.

Trail w/ KDSS - The most capable offroader of the three without any modifications. A great start if big gnarly suspension upgrades are not your style, but offroading is.

 

[Crit Rat]

From what my dealer told me (makes sense to me) when I bought my TE, KDSS doesn't help your on road handling. The only thing it does is help articulation during offroading.

I think what makes the TE handle better is the upgraded sway bar vs the SR5. I had an 2011 SR5 and then upgraded to the 2012 TE w/o KDSS and it handles 100% better.

From what I've seen the KDSS system is actually active on road too. It senses yaw and then increases pressure in the hydraulic system to push up on the sway bar on the side that turning forces are acting on.

There is a good video on youtube that has circulated here that illustrates this. I don't have the time to search for it now though

 

[Batang.Gapo]

..., but am also concerned about day to day driving.

To answer your concern about day to day driving:
I have no complain on SR5 (Canadian Upgrade Package) as daily drive machine. I have learned to adapt to the nose dive, NON-ISSUE at all.

To say the least, I am a happy camper

 

[Jeeves]

From what I've seen the KDSS system is actually active on road too. It senses yaw and then increases pressure in the hydraulic system to push up on the sway bar on the side that turning forces are acting on.

There is a good video on youtube that has circulated here that illustrates this. I don't have the time to search for it now though

Now I'm even more confused! I thought that's what the XREAS system did. SO, is KDSS like XREAS with added option of disengaging the linkage when desired?

 

[1engineer]

Now I'm even more confused! I thought that's what the XREAS system did. SO, is KDSS like XREAS with added option of disengaging the linkage when desired?

Welcome to the internet where anything can and will be said as truth when in reality it only exists in the minds of the posters. Most people on here mean well and quite a few only post fact. The correct answers are out there you just have to search. And no, they are not alike.

 

[phillyd2]

I was just giving the OP a basic breakdown. You are welcome to steer the OP in the "right" direction. :uzi:

Yeah, Sorry about that. Many times (too many, I fear) my inter-sarcastic jerk side oozes out. And I thought it was funny. No real malice was meant. But I do like Version 2.0 much better. Cheers.

 

[Crit Rat]

Now I'm even more confused! I thought that's what the XREAS system did. SO, is KDSS like XREAS with added option of disengaging the linkage when desired?

Here's the KDSS explanatory vid I was referencing.

4Runner Trail Edition - YouTube

I was wrong in that on road KDSS doesn't push up, rather it just is static letting the big sway bars do their job.

 

[sandcrawler]

From what I've seen the KDSS system is actually active on road too. It senses yaw and then increases pressure in the hydraulic system to push up on the sway bar on the side that turning forces are acting on.

There is a good video on youtube that has circulated here that illustrates this. I don't have the time to search for it now though

Here's the KDSS explanatory vid I was referencing.

4Runner Trail Edition - YouTube

I was wrong in that on road KDSS doesn't push up, rather it just is static letting the big sway bars do their job.

um... :wtf:

KDSS improves on-road ride too. the thicker swaybars allow more travel when off-roading and firm up while on-road, reducing body roll. my TE handles way better than my previous '06 SE with XREAS.

Toyota Land Cruiser 150 - KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System) - YouTube