New 4runner adde to the family. Cyclic/Harmonic Vibration 71MPH+

[alunnrhue]

Hello all. long time lurker and finally posting. I just purchased an '03 4runner, flew down to Phoenix and drove it back to Colorado. Over the long drive there is only one issue with it.

There is a cyclic/harmonic vibration that starts at 71mph and goes up from there. **Completely forgot to mention the vibration only happens when under load, disappears as soon as I start coasting at all. The PO had the wheel bearings replaced, new tires put on a month ago. They have been balanced and rotated twice to ensure that is not the issue. I just took it to a shop when I got back, they said the Ujoints on the driveshaft are fine and lubed them up. They told me that the vibration is coming from the large angle that the cv-joints are at due to the lift. Boots are not torn, nor is there play in them.

Can someone chime in that has dealt with this, give me your thoughts, or give me your stock hub to fender measurement to see if my coilovers are cranked up too much?

Vehicle details:
2003 4runner
157k
Toytec front coilovers w/ spc UCA
OME rear lift
Big O' Big Foot AT 285/75/r17
and a picture of my '86 and then new to me '03

 

[wnelax04sr5]

does the vehicle have a diff drop installed? if it doesnt then id say start there if that is the actual cause of the vibration/hum

 

[alunnrhue]

does the vehicle have a diff drop installed? if it doesnt then id say start there if that is the actual cause of the vibration/hum

I believe the front diff drop is installed. I see the spacers for the skid plate. And I see the silver hockey pucks which is the diff drop if I'm correct.

 

[cacarbuff]

Whoa! Your CV angles are massive! I've got cranked Icons on mine and they're just slightly down from level (and I don't have a diff drop). I would crank the coil overs back down to a more reasonable CV angle.

 

[gm350reratliff]

My guess would also be the u-joints or possibly a bent or out of balance driveshaft. Your CV angles don't look bad enough to cause a vibration. Remove one driveshaft at a time, lock the center diff, and go for a drive to see if it changes anything.

Did the PO change all the wheel bearings? That would be my next guess. When the driver side rear wheel bearing started to go, I would get a cyclonic drone at 45-55 then it would come back at 80+. Replaced both rear wheel bearings and now it is smooth as glass.

 

[alunnrhue]

Whoa! Your CV angles are massive! I've got cranked Icons on mine and they're just slightly down from level (and I don't have a diff drop). I would crank the coil overs back down to a more reasonable CV angle.

**Completely forgot to mention the vibration only happens when under load, disappears as soon as I start coasting at all.

Here's some better pics, I wasn't on very flat ground in the other picture. This is in a level parking lot. Here's both sides. Still think these angles are bad? I will try and find someone with a spanner wrench!

My guess would also be the u-joints or possibly a bent or out of balance driveshaft. Your CV angles don't look bad enough to cause a vibration. Remove one driveshaft at a time, lock the center diff, and go for a drive to see if it changes anything.

Did the PO change all the wheel bearings? That would be my next guess. When the driver side rear wheel bearing started to go, I would get a cyclonic drone at 45-55 then it would come back at 80+. Replaced both rear wheel bearings and now it is smooth as glass.

**Completely forgot to mention the vibration only happens when under load, disappears as soon as I start coasting at all.

Front wheel bearings were changed out, the rears were not. Had the u-joints checked out and lubed up, was told they all look good, but didn't have them check the balance. The sound seems like its coming from the front, or right under the center console. My vibration only comes at 71mph+, no other time, and is pretty smooth ride otherwise, which leads me away from bearings. I'll try and find a spanner wrench, lower the front cv angles see if that helps, if not then do what you described and take each driveshaft out at a time, and if not that check the rear wheel bearings.

 

[alunnrhue]

I'm searching the forum for these numbers with no luck, but does anyone have 3" lift numbers from hub center to bottom of fender for the front?

 

[Whitebeauty]

How low do those coilovers go??

 

[blackmax]

U-joints

lift plus u-joints plus miles can equal problem. That's why CV joints are often used instead.

my $.02

 

[gm350reratliff]

Although it will make your CV angle worse, you may want remove the diff drop and see if that helps any with the vibes.

 

[cacarbuff]

**Completely forgot to mention the vibration only happens when under load, disappears as soon as I start coasting at all.

Here's some better pics, I wasn't on very flat ground in the other picture. This is in a level parking lot. Here's both sides. Still think these angles are bad? I will try and find someone with a spanner wrench!

Those don't look too bad anymore... What I did was buy a set of blunt nosed punches from harbor freight for like $8. the 3/8" one (I believe) works great for adjusting coil overs.

 

[alunnrhue]

How low do those coilovers go??

That is an excellent question, I'm wondering that myself ha. If someone knows, are these the Revtec coilovers from Toytec? I can see the SPC UCA.

U-joints

lift plus u-joints plus miles can equal problem. That's why CV joints are often used instead.

my $.02

That was my first thought when I got in the vehicle. I can pull the drivshafts myself and have them do the ujoints for about $50 less parts. These newer cars, are well. new to me, any kind of particular brand of ujoint need to be used. Or will Autozone suffice?

Those don't look too bad anymore... What I did was buy a set of blunt nosed punches from harbor freight for like $8. the 3/8" one (I believe) works great for adjusting coil overs.

Yea, I was searching through the forum with people that installed this lift and took these pictures. I might be a little over cranked. I couldn't find what you were talking about at harbor freight. Do you have a link?

 

[cacarbuff]

Yea, I was searching through the forum with people that installed this lift and took these pictures. I might be a little over cranked. I couldn't find what you were talking about at harbor freight. Do you have a link?

5 Piece Long Drive Pin Punch Set

^ that is what I bought. But I have Icon coil overs, someone else might be needed to confirm the adjuster hole size on the Toytecs.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Have you tried greasing the driveshafts? It won't make the problem go away (the grease will really just take up some slop in the bearings on the u-joints), but you may be able to see if it helps determine if the U-joints have a ton of slop in them.

It could be the driveshaft u-joints, dented/unbalanced shaft (missing any weights on it?), and/or the front differential pinion bearing starting to go bad (unlikely, but it happened on mine, but my noise/harmonic vibration was between 65~75mph)

 

[alunnrhue]

Have you tried greasing the driveshafts? It won't make the problem go away (the grease will really just take up some slop in the bearings on the u-joints), but you may be able to see if it helps determine if the U-joints have a ton of slop in them.

It could be the driveshaft u-joints, dented/unbalanced shaft (missing any weights on it?), and/or the front differential pinion bearing starting to go bad (unlikely, but it happened on mine, but my noise/harmonic vibration was between 65~75mph)

I had my whole drivetrain greased up twice the past two weeks and didn't notice a difference. I took a trip to moab, so I had the front u-joints replaced before I left and it made no difference. The shop actually beat the Sh*t out of my yokes, and now I can feel it's out of balance. But at least I know the other vibration is not from that. It feels completely different.

5 Piece Long Drive Pin Punch Set

^ that is what I bought. But I have Icon coil overs, someone else might be needed to confirm the adjuster hole size on the Toytecs.

Thanks, I'm going to pick these up tomorrow and lower the front 1" and see what that does.

 

[alunnrhue]

Also, something else I noticed. When I first get on the highway and get up to those speeds. The vibration doesn't start for a couple minutes. Which makes me believe grease in a bearing/joint is leaving in that amount of time. Also, the shops couldn't figure it out and also suggested the CV angles. They also pointed out to me that grease is coming out like crazy from the end of the upper CV boot on both sides. It's not torn, and its clamped down tight. What the hell is going on with that?

Cheers!

 

[alunnrhue]

Solution! (False Alarm vibrations still there).

Just wanted to update incase anyone else has this problem.

Had a lot of free time today. After much further diagnosing I determined the vibration was coming from the inner cv joints. I replaced both cv axles today with new units from napa (cardone) with new seals. Install was pretty straight forward and was a great learning process. Took it out for a drive on the highway and nothing but butter. Everything is extremely smooth. Thanks for all the help!

Also had lots of help today. Gonna miss college...

Cheers!

 

[Stuck CAPS]

Solution!

Just wanted to update incase anyone else has this problem.

Had a lot of free time today. After much further diagnosing I determined the vibration was coming from the inner cv joints. I replaced both cv axles today with new units from napa (cardone) with new seals. Install was pretty straight forward and was a great learning process. Took it out for a drive on the highway and nothing but butter. Everything is extremely smooth. Thanks for all the help!

Also had lots of help today. Gonna miss college...

Cheers!

Lol, I didn't notice the jack under you/your buddy at first, I thought "HOLY @#%@# THAT GUY'S MASSIVE."

 

[alunnrhue]

Well boys, its back!! :ybrick::ybrick::ybrick::ybrick::frusty::frusty::frusty::gun4::gun4::uzi::uzi::cry2:

So yesterday was the first time since last week I got it on the highway for more than a couple miles. Within 5 minutes on the highway the vibration started coming back, Occurs at 45-55, and 70+. It seriously seems like it takes a couple minutes, like grease is escaping somewhere before it starts.

I'm at a loss of ideas here, I must have looked something over. When I was changing the axles last week, I just remembered that the right front bearing didn't have a new seal and the grease was black dirty, and it struck me as odd since theres a new seal and new grease on the front left bearing, AND theres a service invoice saying both bearings were done in January. (Couldn't replace that seal last weekend everybody was closed when I was finishing the job)

Did some asswipe at Big'O seriously only replace the front left and not the front right... or did he replace both bearings and fu**ed up the new seal and put the old one back in the front right. Either way I'm out of ideas, and I can't afford to throw anymore money at parts. I've taken it to 3 shops, 2 said either the cv's/ cv angles in combo with the lift, one shop said maybe the wheel bearings still. But this was all said assuming the wheel bearings were changed via that invoice, so who knows if they also automatically ruled it out.

So, lemme hear your thoughts.

 

[AKmoney]

Sorry to hear about your recurring vibration woes... FWIW, my truck has had a similar issue ever since I got it two summers ago. You can feel vibes in the steering wheel when applying engine power from 60-70mph. The heavier the load (either the truck loaded down with more people/gear or accelerating harder), the stronger the vibration. Doesn't matter what gear the transmission is in and it goes away when you coast. Once you get it over about 70mph it starts to go away and by 75 it's mostly smooth again. It's just not bad enough in my case for me to really try to take action to correct it other than to make sure I keep the driveshafts greased up regularly. The weird thing is, the issue seems to come and go and I have no idea why...

I doubt it's CVs. They don't spin fast enough to cause this kind of vibration. In my case you can tell it's coming from the driveshafts (which spin much faster).

Speaking of greasing up driveshafts, does anyone know how much grease to pump into the slip joints? One or two pumps is enough to see grease come out of the u-joints but I have no idea how much to squirt into the slip joints. I still can't seem to completely get rid of the dreaded clunk on mine.