New Bronco on the Rubicon

[Bayou_Pro]

I get it, but the same can be said about the 4Runner. And i believe a lot of people are bored with it.

I wouldn't say I'm bored with my 4runner but it will be nice to have something totally new and exciting. You know things like actual new Tech, factory 35s, 400ftlbs torque, open roof, front lockers and adding a factory 2" lift gets you 37s. We'll still one Pro in the garage so I'm not totally jumping ship. Maybe the 6 gen will bring some new life back. I definitely think the Bronco will hit Wranglers sales much harder the 4runner sales


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[atlatl]

I had been waiting to see the Bronco prior to purchasing another 4Runner. Maybe if there would have been a manual transmission paired with the 5.0 engine I would have held out. I am not going to bet that the eco boost engines are trouble free for 200K miles.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

I had been waiting to see the Bronco prior to purchasing another 4Runner. Maybe if there would have been a manual transmission paired with the 5.0 engine I would have held out. I am not going to bet that the eco boost engines are trouble free for 200K miles.

I definitely wouldn't consider the 4cyl but I've done a ton of research on the 2.7 Ecoboost and it's been damn reliable. The gen 2 for 17 added the secondary injectors to keep the valves clean along with the direct injection. It's very overbilt compared to the 3.5L. Shares the same block architecture with the new PS diesel. It was designed and built to be turbocharged. The the 3.5L is a beefed up derivative of the 3.5L Duratec engine. It was actually a Mazda designed engine that Ford borrowed but had proven to be a great engine NA. I have that engine in my Edge work car with 200K on it with zero issues.

As far as transmission goes I'd personally rather have the auto for off roading. I'll save the manual for my fast cars. I've very excited to see the 10 speed going in the Bronco. That's a badass trans. Same that GM is putting in the ZL1 and the Cadillac V series. Guys are pushing 900-1000hp to those things.


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[ResEng68]

The CAFE = Corporate Average Fuel Economy. The standard requirements are not achieved from a single vehicle. No way am I going to give my hard earned money to FCA. They have a long way to go to get my money.

Agreed. I've been motoring around in my 97 5-speed build. I love the truck dearly but can't convince my wife to do any serious travel in her (safety, convenience, perceived reliability, etc.). Been waiting for a non-FCA offering with a halfway-modern design.

As for CAFE. Toyota has to see the writing on the wall. They've flourished by going against the industry consensus (their mileage got worse from 2012 to 2017: Toyota's greenwashing conceals worsening fleet MPG, shows why they oppose MPG standards - Electrek). As they start to lose their "edge" in Prius and small car sales (note that Prius sales have declined), their weak Truck / SUV fleet mileage will become more apparent.

Looking ahead, the feds have set some pretty aggressive CAFE targets by 2025. For a light duty truck the size of a 4-runner, the required MPG is likely to be around 36MPG. This is a huge step-up from 2015 when the target would have been 25MPG. (For pickup trucks, more than half all fuel savings come in 2022-2025 CAFE rules.

The penalty for a deficient fleet has so far not been too steep ($55 per MPG deficiency under Trump, down from $140 per MPG before Trump). But, most automakers expect substantial increases to these levies. This will be a major consideration for Toyota when deciding on the path for their 2023-35(?) 4Runner platform.

I know that I'd personally be shocked if Toyota were to release a next-gen 4Runner below 25 MPG. And I'm not sure I want to see the type of risks or tradeoffs that Toyota will need to make to drive the 6G above 25 MPG.

 

[Thai]

For those drooling for the Bronco, why not just save time and $$$ and get the Wrangler Rubicon?? Proven off-road capability. Lockers. 4:1 low range. Sway discos. Solid axles. Suspension travel. Unlimited aftermarket support. Iconic.

Chrysler ain’t that great in terms of reliability and durability...true...but Ford is not exactly stellar in these areas either! And unlike Wrangler, you’re buying a 1st year product...you ARE the guinea pig for Ford!

And for those that will wait a year or so, Ford is not known to be all that great at fixing their flaws after 1 year. My brother’s Raptor is a testament to that! The first 6 months of ownership of his 2019 Raptor was a nightmare...it spent more time in shop than in his garage.

 

[T4R2014]

For those drooling for the Bronco, why not just save time and $$$ and get the Wrangler Rubicon?? Proven off-road capability. Lockers. 4:1 low range. Sway discos. Solid axles. Suspension travel. Unlimited aftermarket support. Iconic.

Chrysler ain’t that great in terms of reliability and durability...true...but Ford is not exactly stellar in these areas either! And unlike Wrangler, you’re buying a 1st year product...you ARE the guinea pig for Ford!

And for those that will wait a year or so, Ford is not known to be all that great at fixing their flaws after 1 year. My brother’s Raptor is a testament to that! The first 6 months of ownership of his 2019 Raptor was a nightmare...it spent more time in shop than in his garage.

Great point, but I feel like Chrysler will run through a whole model lifecycle without ever fixing some flaws. Agreed, I wouldn't trust a first model year Ford, but I think these will be a more reliable platform soon.

I think you need a Toyota if you truly want no worries.

 

[LandCruiser]

Great point, but I feel like Chrysler will run through a whole model lifecycle without ever fixing some flaws. Agreed, I wouldn't trust a first model year Ford, but I think these will be a more reliable platform soon.

I think you need a Toyota if you truly want no worries.

If you haven't seen, Ford will be offering the Sasquatch package across the board for ALL Broncs, including Base, which is directly against the policy of other manufacturers that only offer off road tech in their high end/luxo models.

 

[Thai]

If you haven't seen, Ford will be offering the Sasquatch package across the board for ALL Broncs, including Base, which is directly against the policy of other manufacturers that only offer off road tech in their high end/luxo models.

OR Ford could pull a Tesla.......you will never see a BASE model with Sasquatch package ever on the dealer’s lot. It’s there only as special order and there will be significantly delay due to demand of the other lines.

 

[LandCruiser]

OR Ford could pull a Tesla.......you will never see a BASE model with Sasquatch package ever on the dealer’s lot. It’s there only as special order and there will be significantly delay due to demand of the other lines.

Which is exactly what Toyota did with the "base" FJ Cruiser...

To be fair, some people did get their base FJ Cruisers, but they were much harder to come by than completely loaded models.

 

[Thai]

Which is exactly what Toyota did with the "base" FJ Cruiser...

To be fair, some people did get their base FJ Cruisers, but they were much harder to come by than completely loaded models.

Did not know that. But yeah, this is what happens to these popular models. Promise a low hanging fruit that never happen to attract publicity.

 

[shrub1]

For those drooling for the Bronco, why not just save time and $$$ and get the Wrangler Rubicon?? Proven off-road capability. Lockers. 4:1 low range. Sway discos. Solid axles. Suspension travel. Unlimited aftermarket support. Iconic.

Chrysler ain’t that great in terms of reliability and durability...true...but Ford is not exactly stellar in these areas either! And unlike Wrangler, you’re buying a 1st year product...you ARE the guinea pig for Ford!

And for those that will wait a year or so, Ford is not known to be all that great at fixing their flaws after 1 year. My brother’s Raptor is a testament to that! The first 6 months of ownership of his 2019 Raptor was a nightmare...it spent more time in shop than in his garage.

I am going through this drill right now having never owned a Jeep or a Ford.
I am tempted just to go Rubi because i know a 3.5 lift and 37's are not an issue. It's the quality of the Jeep that concerns me. But, as you pointed out the Bronco is new, but it sounds like the 2.7 and 10 speed tranny haven't been a problem for most in other Fords. But, I have no clue how the Bronco will take to 37's with the Ford 2 inch lift that there are zero details on.
The reason I sold my 4Runner was because I needed more clearance and wasn't about to start hacking it up to maybe fit 35's. I found the limits with a 3 inch lift and 33's and CV angles that were on the edge.

In short, I don't want to end up with a Bronco 4Runner dealing CV angles.
37's are a requirement on my next rig.
What issues has your brother's Raptor have and what year is it?

 

[LandCruiser]

I am going through this drill right now having never owned a Jeep or a Ford.
I am tempted just to go Rubi because i know a 3.5 lift and 37's are not an issue. It's the quality of the Jeep that concerns me. But, as you pointed out the Bronco is new, but it sounds like the 2.7 and 10 speed tranny haven't been a problem for most in other Fords. But, I have no clue how the Bronco will take to 37's with the Ford 2 inch lift that there are zero details on.
The reason I sold my 4Runner was because I needed more clearance and wasn't about to start hacking it up to maybe fit 35's. I found the limits with a 3 inch lift and 33's and CV angles that were on the edge.

In short, I don't want to end up with a Bronco 4Runner dealing CV angles.
37's are a requirement on my next rig.
What issues has your brother's Raptor have and what year is it?

I know that they did the CV IFS because the Bronco is based on the Ranger platform and they also knew that most people buying these won't take them off road and SFA really does suck in commuting and day to day mall crawling which is where you'll see 99.999% of Wranglers, anyway.

I have a friend who has a 2019 Raptor that has seen massive power loss issues, presumably from the turbos--he claims the truck is gutless most of the time, now, but the dealer is acting like nothing is wrong.

I hate that you can't get away from the turbos or the 10 speed transmission that you KNOW is geared around fuel efficiency and not day to day performance. A beefy 5 or 6 speed AT with a robust torque convertor and a low range 1st and 2nd is what most off road abuse sees, anyway.

MT is dead and looks like Ford won't be offering it with any of their upper end performance packages, anyway. Probably a good thing since MT Jeeps were catching fire as FCA forgot how to build an MT.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

MT is dead and looks like Ford won't be offering it with any of their upper end performance packages, anyway. Probably a good thing since MT Jeeps were catching fire as FCA forgot how to build an MT.

The last rental car I had was Jeep Cherokee and until I drove that car I had no idea it was possible to repeatedly stall an automatic transmission by bringing a vehicle to a safe and legal stop at a traffic light. So it's not just MTs that they forgot how to build.

 

[mscot]

The last rental car I had was Jeep Cherokee and until I drove that car I had no idea it was possible to repeatedly stall an automatic transmission by bringing a vehicle to a safe and legal stop at a traffic light. So it's not just MTs that they forgot how to build.

Jeep Cherokees turn the engine off automatically after you have been stopped for a few seconds. It should restart automatically when you press the gas.

 

[LandCruiser]

Jeep Cherokees turn the engine off automatically after you have been stopped for a few seconds. It should restart automatically when you press the gas.

If you aren't prepared for it and jiggle the brake right when it shuts off, it can mimic a stall. The wife's JGC does it. It's really annoying because if you toggle it off it resets the next time you start the truck.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Jeep Cherokees turn the engine off automatically after you have been stopped for a few seconds. It should restart automatically when you press the gas.

If you aren't prepared for it and jiggle the brake right when it shuts off, it can mimic a stall. The wife's JGC does it. It's really annoying because if you toggle it off it resets the next time you start the truck.

This was not engine auto-stop, it straight up stalled out. Had to put back in park and restart the engine.

 

[thennen]

If you aren't prepared for it and jiggle the brake right when it shuts off, it can mimic a stall. The wife's JGC does it. It's really annoying because if you toggle it off it resets the next time you start the truck.

Several vehicles have that 'stop/start' technology. I'm not wild about a vehicle using its starter so much. I rode with a co-worker a few years ago in his Grand Cherokee, and he had the A/C running. The stupid thing would shut the engine off when you stopped, and a minute later, would re-start to run the A/C briefly as needed, then shut off again. What if you're in a 5-mile traffic jam in 95* heat? You could realistically be re-starting the car fifty times. I understand there might be fuel savings, but how much cost offset is there once you need to replace the starter?

Trivia: I think the 1974 Toyota Crown was first to employ this type of thing.

 

[LandCruiser]

Several vehicles have that 'stop/start' technology. I'm not wild about a vehicle using its starter so much. I rode with a co-worker a few years ago in his Grand Cherokee, and he had the A/C running. The stupid thing would shut the engine off when you stopped, and a minute later, would re-start to run the A/C briefly as needed, then shut off again. What if you're in a 5-mile traffic jam in 95* heat? You could realistically be re-starting the car fifty times. I understand there might be fuel savings, but how much cost offset is there once you need to replace the starter?

Trivia: I think the 1974 Toyota Crown was first to employ this type of thing.

I don't think there is any fuel savings, unless you're stopped rather than in stop and go traffic. I think that this was some kind of end-run around industry standards and this is the best manufacturers could come up with to keep regulators happy. The start-stop on my Macan stays off forever once you turn it off.

 

[Jetboy]

The start/stop saves a lot of emissions from idling diesel small cars in places like Paris or London. For that reason the EU gives start/stop models a credit of a few mpgs for doing it. So it's pretty much standard on all EU models. Most studies show a reduction in fuel use and emissions between 5 and 10% for city driving. That's a fair amount IMO.

Better manufacturers will pretty frequently run the accessories electrically. I remember when Honda had the early insight hybrid models - they only had AC on when the ICE was running. So you'd loose AC for long periods of time in stop and go traffic. Not a good design.

The new Rav4 Prime does one better - it has an A/C hold button that works kinda like remote start - but since accessories are all electric it can keep the car cool while you run into a store. Basically just like the pet mode in a Tesla. Great feature for pet owners in hot weather areas.

 

[shrub1]

I know that they did the CV IFS because the Bronco is based on the Ranger platform and they also knew that most people buying these won't take them off road and SFA really does suck in commuting and day to day mall crawling which is where you'll see 99.999% of Wranglers, anyway.

I have a friend who has a 2019 Raptor that has seen massive power loss issues, presumably from the turbos--he claims the truck is gutless most of the time, now, but the dealer is acting like nothing is wrong.

I hate that you can't get away from the turbos or the 10 speed transmission that you KNOW is geared around fuel efficiency and not day to day performance. A beefy 5 or 6 speed AT with a robust torque convertor and a low range 1st and 2nd is what most off road abuse sees, anyway.

MT is dead and looks like Ford won't be offering it with any of their upper end performance packages, anyway. Probably a good thing since MT Jeeps were catching fire as FCA forgot how to build an MT.

I'd never get MT for off road again, been there and it sucks (for me). This new rig will not be a DD. Have you by chance driven the JL? I know the JK's sucked on the road with 37's..at least the one I drove. Any feed back on the JL's? Looks like jeep just did a TSB to address the steering box issue which seemed to effect JL's lifted or not. My gut is telling me to go SFA.