New Member Just Bought 2000 4Runner Limited, Rotten Rusted Frame...

[tphss]

Hello,

I am new here, I just purchased a 2000 4Runner Limited from a dealer in PA with 130,000 miles about a week ago. I was hoping to get it, fix the exhaust they told me had a problem and have fun with it. But when I got it I realized I'd have to spend the money to fix it before I can buy any serious mods...

The dealer told me it only needs to have the exhaust repaired. When I got the car to Florida and put it on a lift, my jaw dropped. Rust EVERYWHERE and the exhaust system is so rusted I will need to buy both cats (CA emissions), muffler and new O2 sensors... Plus one of the rear shocks is completely broken.

That's not the worst. After lifting it, I also found a 3inch rust hole on the side of the chassis. Besides that the axle, suspension brackets, brake covers, and a lot of other areas are rusted pretty bad (see pics).

After reading through the forum, I know people from the northeast have problems with rust in these models. But since there is so much rust, I'm thinking of buying a complete used frame from a junkyard and swapping the frame and other rusted parts. I never did a frame swap or anything even close, but I do have access to a car lift.
I also contacted a welder I know who does this work, he can cut, patch and weld it for $200. I'm not sure how much would a complete chassis be from a junkyard here, but I'm sure I'll find one with minimal rust here in Florida.

Any recommendations? All the money I planned to spend on tires, a lift and suspension will go to fix the rust :faint:


Thank you and happy thanksgiving

 

[SURF RUNNER]

Did you buy it from a dealership (that sells new and used cars) or just a used car lot?

 

[tphss]

Did you buy it from a dealership (that sells new and used cars) or just a used car lot?

Used car lot.
I wasn't able to look at the car, and I signed sold "AS-IS". I purchased it because the body and interior looked (and are) clean, and also history showed only two owners and no accidents. Wasn't expecting this amount of rust though

 

[0xfded]

The worst rust in those pictures above is just a running board bracket, and new running boards aren't hard to come by (or just remove outright.) Is that the worst spot?

I've heard frame replacements quoted in the low thousands (mainly due to the amount of labor involved), so if you've got a guy who can mend things for $200, that's the deal of the century.

Easier to replace the engine than the frame. Glad they don't use much salt around here.

 

[my92t4r]

Doesn't look too bad.....Spend some time and do a few POR15 treatments and you should be golden....

 

[walrusmt]

Honestly that rust isn't so bad. I bought a 95 last year with less than 94K on it and the rust was twice that bad (Indiana - 2nd only to Ohio for rust damage!). You can probably improve a lot with replacing running board bracket and wire wheeling the rust. Frame swap sounds cool though.

 

[theriddler]

It's not ideal but I've seen (and fixed) a lot worse. Do a search of some rotten frames on this forum then you won't feel so bad about yours...seriously! It's fixable, just trash the running board bracket and knock off the loose rust everywhere else and give it a coat of POR15, Fluid Film, or even black paint. Pay close attention to the mounting points of the rear control arms on the frame, that's a bad spot from my experience. Good luck!

 

[csp]

x whatever the counts is on the rust. It isn't bad at all.

What's up with that muffler/tailpipe junction though? Did the tailpipe disconnect from the muffler output? If so, that needs to be corrected ASAP to prevent carbon monoxide from getting inside while driving.

 

[JBurt]

Get a compressor and a needle scaler.

 

[jaephu]

I am in a similar situation. To be honest, the most painful part is thinking too much about it.

Just try to patch it up as much as it makes sense to (probably $ wise)

This is the approach I am taking...FYI HARBOR FREIGHT is your friend. I wish we had them in Canada!

1. Wire Brush / Wire Wheel the visible rust
2. Use a rust converter like Picklex 20, Rust Mort, or Osphos. I am going to try Picklex 20 as it's supposedly not as corrosive as others.
3. Then I will use something simple like Zero Rust paint or Rustoleum/Tremclad rust paint (oil based). Lots of people rave about POR-15, but there are stories on both sides of the fence.
4. Use Eastwood Internal Chassis Paint / Fluid Film on the internal frame

This will cost the most in time to do this, but material wise, I am estimating:

- Wire Wheel/Brush $5-20 from harbor freight. I got a nyalox brush (grey 80 grit), and some metal ones.
- Drill / Grinder (depends on the wire wheel/brush you choose)
- cheap/acid paint brushes
- Picklex 20 - pint = $50 ...i chose this as it sounds the easiest/minimal prep work. (Rust mort or other phospheric acid solutions are cheaper)
- Rustoleum/Tremclad = $20-30 per gallon, or Zero Rust $80-100? per gallon. Or you can get aerosol cans if thats easier. The key thing is the rust converter that will be what you will paint on top of. Others also suggest a primer on top of this, but i am not sure if i will be doing this
- Eastwood Internal Frame Chassis sprays (3 bottles, about $20 a piece)

For maintenance if you live in salted area, it might be best to get some gallons/cans of fluid film (in bulk-$10/can) to do an annual fluid film job on the underside.

Good luck sir. May your noble steed live long and prosper!

:girl:

 

[jaephu]

Here's my PITA:

https://imgur.com/a/0edJ1

:ak472: RUST

It looks wet because I sprayed fluid film on it while I researched my plan to fix this rust.

I'm getting rid of the running boards too. I have rusty chrome pieces too. Sorta stuck, can't get the rusted bolt off. Tried PB buster.....but lack tools. I'm a computer geek = google powered. :redbrick:

 

[csp]

This is the approach I am taking...FYI HARBOR FREIGHT is your friend. I wish we had them in Canada!

Canada's equivalent is Princess Auto.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Where's the picture of the 3 inch hole in the frame? I'll bet it's next to the muffler. Your situation sounds just like mine (even the same year and model) except my rear axle housing was leaking which I spotted the night I bought it. I've been battling the rust ever since. You can get it taken care of, it's just a lot of work.

 

[tphss]

The worst rust in those pictures above is just a running board bracket, and new running boards aren't hard to come by (or just remove outright.) Is that the worst spot?

I've heard frame replacements quoted in the low thousands (mainly due to the amount of labor involved), so if you've got a guy who can mend things for $200, that's the deal of the century.

Easier to replace the engine than the frame. Glad they don't use much salt around here.

I think following the replies, I will not do a frame swap. I think my best optiont is take the body off the frame and restore the entire frame (and do the hole welding in the frame while I restore and repaint it).

Honestly that rust isn't so bad. I bought a 95 last year with less than 94K on it and the rust was twice that bad (Indiana - 2nd only to Ohio for rust damage!). You can probably improve a lot with replacing running board bracket and wire wheeling the rust. Frame swap sounds cool though.

Yes, I plan to install Savage side steps after I deal with the rust and take off the running boards.

Doesn't look too bad.....Spend some time and do a few POR15 treatments and you should be golden....

Yep, need to see how to take the body off, and just restore, fix and paint the entire frame.

It's not ideal but I've seen (and fixed) a lot worse. Do a search of some rotten frames on this forum then you won't feel so bad about yours...seriously! It's fixable, just trash the running board bracket and knock off the loose rust everywhere else and give it a coat of POR15, Fluid Film, or even black paint. Pay close attention to the mounting points of the rear control arms on the frame, that's a bad spot from my experience. Good luck!

Thanks riddler, do you know any people in South Florida with experience in this? I researched the forum but I don't know if I can take the body off the frame by myself with no experience. I didn't see a DIY for taking a 4runner body off the frame (is there?).

Yep, the points you mentioned are rusted pretty bad. Seems most people vouch for POR15.

 

[tphss]

x whatever the counts is on the rust. It isn't bad at all.

What's up with that muffler/tailpipe junction though? Did the tailpipe disconnect from the muffler output? If so, that needs to be corrected ASAP to prevent carbon monoxide from getting inside while driving.

The muffler is completely rusted out and fell apart. Yeah the output is completely disconnected.
It's not being driven right now, I ordered a full Walker muffler (both cats, muffler and pipe I have apparently the CA version) plus the two oxygen sensors (one of them was over $100!). I'll install them after I deal with the frame rust I think.

Get a compressor and a needle scaler.

I'm thinking of getting a sandblaster, isn't that better?

I am in a similar situation. To be honest, the most painful part is thinking too much about it.

Good luck sir. May your noble steed live long and prosper!

:girl:

Thank you, yeah I've been thinking of this since I got the car, sucks I'll have to spend a lot of time and money (and upset at myself about not being more suspicious of of rust in a car from PA).
Just wondering now how to take the body off the frame right now so I can deal with the rust more easily.

Here's my PITA:

https://imgur.com/a/0edJ1

:ak472: RUST

It looks wet because I sprayed fluid film on it while I researched my plan to fix this rust.

I'm getting rid of the running boards too. I have rusty chrome pieces too. Sorta stuck, can't get the rusted bolt off. Tried PB buster.....but lack tools. I'm a computer geek = google powered. :redbrick:

I think you are in a slightly better place, especially if you don't have a hole yet.
But yeah, this will be a PITA to deal with.

Where's the picture of the 3 inch hole in the frame? I'll bet it's next to the muffler. Your situation sounds just like mine (even the same year and model) except my rear axle housing was leaking which I spotted the night I bought it. I've been battling the rust ever since. You can get it taken care of, it's just a lot of work.

You hit it bang on, the hole is exactly there but I can't take a good picture of it with the muffler still on.
What did you do to deal with the rust so far? Did it work?

Here's a picture of the broken and rusted rear shock too.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I'm thinking of getting a sandblaster, isn't that better?

You hit it bang on, the hole is exactly there but I can't take a good picture of it with the muffler still on.
What did you do to deal with the rust so far? Did it work?

Here's a picture of the broken and rusted rear shock too.

Tell me that the shock itself broke and not the shock mount because that can get pretty rusty too.

My battle with the rust has been on going. Basically ever piece of rusty metal is either being removed and sandblasted then coated ( I'm using KBS coatings) or getting replaced from donor vehicles. Below is a picture of a cross member under the transmission I replaced. Bought from a member on here currently parting out a few trucks outside of the salt belt.
The rust by the muffler can be fixed as long as it hasn't hit the control arm support too much. Even then it can be fixed, but may require a lot more work and maybe some fabrication.
The inner part of the frame (which is where a lot of the rust begins) seems a little thinner then the top, bottom, or outside. Someone on here told me it was a "c" channel type of frame. I didn't see my rust because someone hid it with that foam stuff for filling in cracks and body filler and undercoating (pretty underhanded if you ask me) I recently had the area welded with new metal, reinforcing the whole area. Cost me $200. The same thing is happening on the other side by the gas tank, but not nearly as bad. I might have that repaired when I drop the gas tank to do a preemptive strike on the rust I saw on it through the access port under the rear driver's side seat ( I was testing my fuel pump). I'm replacing the tank when I replace my rear axle housing. Doing it all at once. Bought the rear axle housing and gas tank from a local vehicle. (which surprising had mostly surface rust) I had the housing sandblasted and KBS coated and will be renewing as much metal as I can while I'm in there. I'm going above/ beyond in renewing this truck because I really like it and plan to keep it for a while, but if I do sell it, I will do so with confidence that I am selling a safe and reliable truck.

Oh and sand blasting is the way to go but you need a robust air compressor (5hp+), along with a better sand blaster. Not sure what kind of sand blaster you're buying. Those plastic Harbor Freight sand blasters are OK for small projects, but to do larger areas or to remove heavy rust, a larger, and more expensive, sand blaster is really necessary. Good luck!

 

[theriddler]

Any shade tree type mechanic with a mig welder should be able to help you out in patching in some new panels if you need them. Removing the body would be my last resort. Media blasting with soda or sand is ideal but would be extremely messy if the parts aren't removed from the vehicle. I would just use a wire brush or a needle scaler as mentioned, of course removing parts and blasting them is ideal and that would create more room to work under your vehicle but it's up to you in whatever you're comfortable with and have the time to do. Fortunately on the 4Runner I fixed, I just had to drop the gas tank and weld in some patch panels on the frame. It took a little time but wasn't a bad job. Found some scrap pieces of 3/16" plate steel from work and traced them out using the cardboard template I made, sanded down the frame in that one spot, and welded it right on.....problem solved! Didn't really cost any money at all except for a $8 can of Rustoleum and a few beers for my buddy since he was the master welder that hooked me up.

 

[theriddler]

Here's my PITA:

https://imgur.com/a/0edJ1

:ak472: RUST

It looks wet because I sprayed fluid film on it while I researched my plan to fix this rust.

I'm getting rid of the running boards too. I have rusty chrome pieces too. Sorta stuck, can't get the rusted bolt off. Tried PB buster.....but lack tools. I'm a computer geek = google powered. :redbrick:

I purchased some Fluid Film a while back but I haven't used it yet. I'm curious if I can add a black dye to it to make it look more like an undercoating than a layer of oil. I'm thinking like a black candle dye or something compatible with oil. Any thoughts?

 

[jaephu]

I purchased some Fluid Film a while back but I haven't used it yet. I'm curious if I can add a black dye to it to make it look more like an undercoating than a layer of oil. I'm thinking like a black candle dye or something compatible with oil. Any thoughts?

I've read alot about fluid film, but haven't heard of anyone doing this. You basically get this waxy protective layer on top of anything you put it on for 1-3 years depending on the environment you're in. So even if it was darker, I don't expect the wet look to disappear.

I have fluid film on now, but once it gets warmer, will do the wire wheel, Picklex 20 treatment (to convert the rust), then paint over it with zero rust. Then I will apply fluid film every one or two years and it should hopefully last through many winters.