New OEM LCA Bushings - Post Install

[joshik]

I just went through a LCA bushing replacement. After my last ordeal with the Superpro LCA (if you've seen my previous thread) I decided to just go with new bushings in the OEM LCA. I was going to go with poly bushings but after reading about poly vs rubber/OEM, I decided OEM is the way to go. Not as harsh and less maintenance and possibility for noise.

I installed the LCA back in but have yet to lower the 4r back down. I'm waiting for a new tie rod bellows boot as I tore one while replacing the ITR. My old bushings were original... 270k miles on them! They were def worn and the LCA moved super easy when detached from the spindle.

Now, after I torqued the cam bolts to 100ftlbs I can't move the LCA at all! Like I mentioned, I have not yet lowered the 4r back down. Is this normal?

What part of the bushing does the movement? The side washer are attached to an inner tube and the rubber bushing spins around the center tube and between the outer washers?

Also, I noticed that there was a VERY slight gap between the bushing washer and the mount of the foward most mounts. After the tightening, its gone of course. Is this normal too?

 

[montijo505]

That’s why poly are better design, they have an inner sleeve and allow movement up and down. The rubber stock ones don’t allow much movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSu9ZR4byc4&feature=youtu.be


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[joshik]

That’s why poly are better design, they have an inner sleeve and allow movement up and down. The rubber stock ones don’t allow much movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSu9ZR4byc4&feature=youtu.be


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**update** i watched the video. So the OEM bushings are not meant to allow a wide range of motion of the LCA?

I hear various things about harshness the and then the propensity for poly bushings to squeak. There are no zerk fittings so not sure how those would get lubed. I'm a "low maintenance" kinda guy. That's why I went with a sealed balljoint design on the UCA vs uniball. I already hate lubing the driveshaft joints to clear the clunking.

 

[Piggity]

You need to jack the truck back and up loosen the LCA bolts. The stock OEM rubber bushings are designed to be tightened up to the factory torque specs "when the weight of the vehicle is on them".

Poly bushings are different and are able to torqued at ride height or up in the air - it doesn't matter like Monti said.

 

[joshik]

You need to jack the truck back and up loosen the LCA bolts. The stock OEM rubber bushings are designed to be tightened up to the factory torque specs "when the weight of the vehicle is on them".

Poly bushings are different and are able to torqued at ride height or up in the air - it doesn't matter like Monti said.

yep, did some more reading and i did just that just now. I loosened the bolts, lowered it then tightened them. Ill be going in for an alignment lil later today

learned something new today!

 

[rdruss]

This is why I chose Super Pro bushings for my install, they allow up and down movement as you would expect and I believe their advertising in that they are superior to "poly".
The OEM, as you have discovered, allow movement only by "twisting" the rubber bushing, that is held in place by the design and torque specs, not ideal in my opinion for "proper" suspension movement.

 

[joshik]

This is why I chose Super Pro bushings for my install, they allow up and down movement as you would expect and I believe their advertising in that they are superior to "poly".
The OEM, as you have discovered, allow movement only by "twisting" the rubber bushing, that is held in place by the design and torque specs, not ideal in my opinion for "proper" suspension movement.

agreed. I'll run these for now. Maybe, down the road, i'll change to superpro bushings

 

[y=mx+b]

The main difference between poly and OEM style rubber bushings, like [MENTION=109843]montijo505[/MENTION] mentioned, is how they articlate. The poly bushings rotate about an inner shell, whereas OEM style rubber bushings rotate through internal torsion within the bushings.

You may have noticed the rubber bushings have a central rubber cylinder around the inner sleeve, with two rubber connection blocks to the outside rubber ring and bushing shell. Since the rubber isn't fixed all around, when your LCAs need to go up or down, those two rubber connections flex within the bushing. This is why, to [MENTION=207812]Piggity[/MENTION] 's point, you want the vehicle on the ground when torquing the LCAs. You don't want the ride height position of the bushing to be already under internal torsion, since the suspension compresses as it supports the weight of the vehicle. Instead, torqueing with the vehicle supporting its own weight sets the bushing "home position" to ride height and not the jacked up height.

On the other hand, the poly bushings are able to rotate around this central sleeve/tube that is greased.


The inside of the Whiteline bushings are knurled to hold the grease along the inside, with a smooth section at the extremities of the hole to act like a seal. Don't mind the green grease, that I just used as lube when pressing the bushings in. The black greased goes around the tube and is retained by the internal knurles.


Energy Suspension bushings don't have as good of a "grease retention" system as the Whitelines, and this is why they (and other poly bushings) get a bad reputation for squeaking- poor lubrication. The squeaking is the unlubricated poly sliding across the metal. I have had no issues with the Whitelines squeaking, and they've been on for about 8k miles. Whitelines recommends regreasing every 15k and had even mentioned a zerk could be drilled if I wanted.

 

[cwilliams563]

That’s good information to know after I just bought new OEM LCA’s haha. Didn’t read about any real good OEM alternatives for the Ball joints and the OEM’s weren’t that much more than rebuilding myself.

Unfortunately first I’ve heard of the articulation factor and the video Montijo posted explains it very well. Oh well, I’ll install my new OEM LCA’s, SPC UCA’s and consider maybe rebuilding mine that I remove with the Whiteline Poly bushings. Doing it for the “Floaty” feel I have. Guess it can’t be any worse than what I have now. More things to obsess about lol.

 

[joshik]

That’s good information to know after I just bought new OEM LCA’s haha. Didn’t read about any real good OEM alternatives for the Ball joints and the OEM’s weren’t that much more than rebuilding myself.

Unfortunately first I’ve heard of the articulation factor and the video Montijo posted explains it very well. Oh well, I’ll install my new OEM LCA’s, SPC UCA’s and consider maybe rebuilding mine that I remove with the Whiteline Poly bushings. Doing it for the “Floaty” feel I have. Guess it can’t be any worse than what I have now. More things to obsess about lol.

Yeh I learned a lot too.... the diff between the poly vs rubber. I did read someones post that had poly (cant remember which ones) bushings for a while and he was going back to rubber for various reasons.

So the 4r drives so nice now! New bushings, new ITRE and new OTRE make a world of a difference. The steering is so much tighter and just feels awesome on and off road.

I went out to Anza Borrego for the weekend and did a ton of wheeling around Anza and up Oriflame to Julian. The 4r wheeled great. Did i lose travel or is my travel restricted in my front end... maybe but I'll probably be OK with it for now.

Also.. my front end is taller now! It is noticeably taller which means the rubber bushings are loading up and holding up the front end a little bit. You can tell by looking at it but also I can tell by looking at my CV Axles. When I first lifted my 4r with the 6112s (maxed height) I thought, man what are all these guys talking about with the CV boots rubbing, extreme CV angles, diff drop, etc, because my Axles were not that angled. Now i know why. Do you think if I went poly my front end would be lower?

 

[Piggity]

Yeh I learned a lot too.... the diff between the poly vs rubber. I did read someones post that had poly (cant remember which ones) bushings for a while and he was going back to rubber for various reasons.

So the 4r drives so nice now! New bushings, new ITRE and new OTRE make a world of a difference. The steering is so much tighter and just feels awesome on and off road.

I went out to Anza Borrego for the weekend and did a ton of wheeling around Anza and up Oriflame to Julian. The 4r wheeled great. Did i lose travel or is my travel restricted in my front end... maybe but I'll probably be OK with it for now.

Also.. my front end is taller now! It is noticeably taller which means the rubber bushings are loading up and holding up the front end a little bit. You can tell by looking at it but also I can tell by looking at my CV Axles. When I first lifted my 4r with the 6112s (maxed height) I thought, man what are all these guys talking about with the CV boots rubbing, extreme CV angles, diff drop, etc, because my Axles were not that angled. Now i know why. Do you think if I went poly my front end would be lower?

I'm not sure why the ride height is different. It's entirely possible that the bushing is holding it up more, hence the ride height is higher but I've never heard of that. I have more experience in lowered cars than 4x4's...lol

 

[joshik]

I'm not sure why the ride height is different. It's entirely possible that the bushing is holding it up more, hence the ride height is higher but I've never heard of that. I have more experience in lowered cars than 4x4's...lol

hm... actually come to think of it... maybe it doesn't make sense. If I tightened (and the alignment shop during alignment) the cam bolts when the car was on the ground, the weight of the car would have been fully supported by the coilovers. Then by tightening the cam bolts the bushings are set in place at the resting height of the car... then it goes up and down from there putting load in the bushings.

 

[gaber6]

hm... actually come to think of it... maybe it doesn't make sense. If I tightened (and the alignment shop during alignment) the cam bolts when the car was on the ground, the weight of the car would have been fully supported by the coilovers. Then by tightening the cam bolts the bushings are set in place at the resting height of the car... then it goes up and down from there putting load in the bushings.

It could be slightly higher. When the truck is lifted in the air, it might take a minute (or longer) for the springs to settle back down, so maybe this is the case. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why sometimes when I park, my front end looks taller and sometimes it sits correctly. It might be how I tightened those bushings when I did the daystar lift.

 

[Piggity]

It could be slightly higher. When the truck is lifted in the air, it might take a minute (or longer) for the springs to settle back down, so maybe this is the case. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why sometimes when I park, my front end looks taller and sometimes it sits correctly. It might be how I tightened those bushings when I did the daystar lift.

Yeah this correct. I assumed the OP knew to move the car back and forth, drive it down the road, or just push the front up and down to get the suspension settled.

Anytime I adjust my coilovers on my IS300 I drive it down the road to settle the suspension, then I measure the ride height L to R.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I will point out that the "twisting" of the rubber bushing is a calculated factor in suspension and honestly bushing design in general. It's a sort of "pre-load" to help the suspension return to a neutral position (at least that's the story per text books and suspension dynamic papers). It's why almost all vehicles will tell you to torque most suspension components like that with the vehicle resting on the ground.

All that being said, I've been pretty happy with my poly-bushings in my LCAs, I haven't had any noise or issues; the only real thing I have noticed is that they don't move as freely as they did when I first installed them (i.e. when I am unbolting the LCA to clean my heims on my suspension lift they take more force to push them down than they used to but still negligible in the long run.) I honestly get more noise from the heims in my suspension than the poly bushings in the LCA, Sway Bar bushings and links.