New Yorkers... Give up your guns.
- Thread starter SV_Dude
- Start date
LINY4Runner
New member
I was ready to unsubscribe because it turned into a shitshow and no longer had anything to do with the original post.
I don't get you man...you have something to say about everything and everyone and it's N E V E R something positive or useful.
What do you live for? What do you do? What are your hobbies? Surely there's more to you than what I'm seeing here. Help me understand.
RunninInGA
New member
Help me understand why you're not ok with any comparison to gun ownership and why the topic itself is so untouchable to you. I'm having a hard time understanding why gun violence is such a damning topic when there are plenty more dangerous instances and circumstances we get into and out of each day.
More people die each year from motor vehicle accidents but you seem to be perfectly ok with current licensure practices and aren't talking about limiting peoples driving rights and privileges. I just don't get it.
bofa
New member
I have no problem with opposing opinions. Check my posts... I'm more than willing to engage in productive conversation with others, even with people I normally agree with but not on a particular subject.
But your MO is to just make a short inflammatory counter-statement without explaining it and you will not engage in conversation. It happens all the time with you, which is why you are often deemed to be trolling.
RunninInGA
New member
It's this right here. You ask for an opinion and become intolerant of said opinion when it doesn't align with your own. You preach about tolerance here but are amongst the most intolerant on the forum.
Another example is in the IWB thread when you posted about slipping your carry piece in your waistband not using a holster. You asked for an opinion, or at least I and several others interpreted your post as a question, but then started calling names when everyone mentioned the pitfalls of carrying in such a manner.
We have a name for that where I'm from, but it'd probably hurt your feelings and then there'd be other infractions for you to hurl around and cry about.
ndcent
New member
Saying 950 posts in 3+ years are never positive or useful is simply false.
The positive I had hoped to bring into this thread was to encourage openness to continued debate among those who's main mission is to stifle it. With the toll that gun violence takes on our society we should strive to better ourselves as Americans and the "not one inch" crowd I simply don't understand. But it's become apparent that this thread isn't the place to promote those ideas, and so it goes I'll accept that.
As to the jest and ribbing, that's the funny nature of the internet. I get with this topic it's too heated, but with just moderation it could improve.
JBecker
New member
If that was your intention, you did a pretty poor job of it.
Here is some more data for you since you seem to be completely oblivious to what the actual problems are with regard to gun violence.
FBI data on overall violent crime: FBI ? Table 1
FBI data on homicides broken down by weapon: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
CDC data on drunk driving deaths and other motor vehicle deaths: CDC - Impaired Driving Data and Statistics - Motor Vehicle Safety - Injury Center
CDC data on overall mortality in the US: FASTSTATS - Deaths and Mortality
So if you take the time to go through all this data (I'm not holding my breath that you will) you will find that this "gun epidemic", is anything but. If you dig further on the rate of violent crime and murder in the US, you begin to see a large trend of instances taking place in urban areas with poor education systems, poverty, high drug use, and various other criminal enterprise. You will also note how many of these areas have some of the strictest gun control typically.
The number 1 killer in this country, is people eating their fat asses to death.
How dare you accuse me of being an extremist for refusing any further rights be stripped from the American people.
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hikenbike
New member
Not "any" comparison. Thats your word. I said autos and medical treatment. The incidents due to automobiles and medical treatment are impossible comparisons as these areas are far, far greater in scope, impact just about our entire population, and have countless variables and influences. Gun ownership does not.
I'm not talking about limiting auto license privledges because it didn't come up. I'd be in support of more stringent, regular testing for an individual to keep a drivers license even knowing that opens up another whole host of issues and concerns.
Want to talk about capital punishment? - I love the idea. It should be everywhere.
Drunk driving? - I support being as harsh as humanly possible to those that drink and drive.
I voted for Obama and would do it again, but do I still sound "liberal" to you?
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hikenbike
New member
Criminals are the responsibility of law enforcement. I do live in a different world than you. The LE around me (live, work, and play in NJ and NYC) is responsive and generally excellent.
I want the guy who's carrying anywhere near my kids, sitting next to me at my next Devil, Ranger, Giant, Jet game, on my subway train, and in my work place to be EXTREMELY qualified to do so. You have a problem with having that expectation?
JBecker
New member
hikenbike
New member
Yeah....hard to figure, huh? I get that alot. From both sides.
JBecker
New member
Perhaps you should do some research on the NYPD and their "issues" with competency.
Empire State Building shooting sparks questions about NYPD shot accuracy - CBS News
hikenbike
New member
Generally excellent, Mr. Statistics.
Put your numbers and news articles away, open your eyes, and understand their responsibilities and scale. You have no idea.
JBecker
New member
Um, no actually I do considering the amount of firearms training I personally have. Your assumptions that law enforcement officers are more competent under pressure has been proven false. The article I posted, if you even bothered to read it, listed a cause of this being money and time allocated for training purposes. See, if an officer is only required to qualify at 10 yards once a year with his or her duty sidearm, they are allowed to perform their duties. To many cops, a gun is just another tool they use, and to be quite frank, they don't care to be truly proficient with it.
Now there are law enforcement officers who seek outside training classes to further their skill sets. I've taken many classes with these types of individuals. They paid for the class and the ammo out of their own pocket because they wanted to be better prepared if they were in an officer involved shooting.
When the shit hits the fan, you don't rise to the occasion, you fall back on your training.
Perhaps you should stay in your lane with regard to topics you clearly know nothing about.
hikenbike
New member
Thanks, but I'll comment on any topic that I damn well please. If you don't like it, stop responding.
What I know is this......I'm 100% comfortable living my life on a daily basis without carrying a gun. You are not. That says more than your stats and news nonsense.
Glad to have a drink with you in Times Square next time you're in NYC - sans firearm, of course.
BrianSD_42
New member
I just read this:
Everything You Think You Know about Mass Murder Is Wrong
Link ----> Mass shootings in America: Northeastern criminologists James Alan Fox, Monica J. DeLateur in Homicide Studies refute common myths about mass murder.
It is explaining a new study that debunks the idea that mass murder has been increasing. There were several articles released after Newtown that manipulated statistics to show an increase when none existed.
Here is the study ----> Mass Shootings in America: Moving Beyond Newtown
It addresses each of these myths and debunks them individually:
* Myth: Mass Murderers Snap and Kill Indiscriminately
* Myth: Mass Shootings Are on the Rise
* Myth: Recent Mass Murders Involve Record-Setting Body Counts
* Myth: Violent Entertainment, Especially Video Games, Are Causally Linked to Mass Murder
* Myth: Greater Attention and Response to the Telltale Warning Signs Will Allow Us to Identify Would-Be Mass Killers Before They Act
* Myth: Widening the Availability of Mental Health Services Will Allow Unstable Individuals to Get the Treatment They Need and Avert Mass Murders
* Myth: Enhanced Background Checks Will Keep Dangerous Weapons Out of the Hands of These Madmen
* Myth: Restoring the Federal Ban on Assault Weapons Will Prevent These Horrible Crimes
* Myth: Expanding “Right to Carry” Provisions Will Deter Mass Killers or at Least Stop Them in Their Tracks and Reduce the Body Counts
* Myth: Increasing Physical Security in Schools and Other Places Will Prevent Mass Murder
* Myth: Having Armed Guards at Every School Will Serve to Protect Students From an Active Shooter and Provide a Deterrent as Well
Conclusion ---> see link above
Everything You Think You Know about Mass Murder Is Wrong
Link ----> Mass shootings in America: Northeastern criminologists James Alan Fox, Monica J. DeLateur in Homicide Studies refute common myths about mass murder.
It is explaining a new study that debunks the idea that mass murder has been increasing. There were several articles released after Newtown that manipulated statistics to show an increase when none existed.
Here is the study ----> Mass Shootings in America: Moving Beyond Newtown
It addresses each of these myths and debunks them individually:
* Myth: Mass Murderers Snap and Kill Indiscriminately
* Myth: Mass Shootings Are on the Rise
* Myth: Recent Mass Murders Involve Record-Setting Body Counts
* Myth: Violent Entertainment, Especially Video Games, Are Causally Linked to Mass Murder
* Myth: Greater Attention and Response to the Telltale Warning Signs Will Allow Us to Identify Would-Be Mass Killers Before They Act
* Myth: Widening the Availability of Mental Health Services Will Allow Unstable Individuals to Get the Treatment They Need and Avert Mass Murders
* Myth: Enhanced Background Checks Will Keep Dangerous Weapons Out of the Hands of These Madmen
* Myth: Restoring the Federal Ban on Assault Weapons Will Prevent These Horrible Crimes
* Myth: Expanding “Right to Carry” Provisions Will Deter Mass Killers or at Least Stop Them in Their Tracks and Reduce the Body Counts
* Myth: Increasing Physical Security in Schools and Other Places Will Prevent Mass Murder
* Myth: Having Armed Guards at Every School Will Serve to Protect Students From an Active Shooter and Provide a Deterrent as Well
Conclusion ---> see link above
LINY4Runner
New member
Criminals are the responsibility of law enforcement. Fact. But criminals are not criminals until they commit a crime. The police are rarely there in time to stop a crime, but are always there to investigate and mop the blood off the floors. That is why we carry. Average 911 response is over 15 minutes. Average .40 response time is 1100 feet per second.
As for the second statement, I fully back that as well. I would like anyone carrying to be vigilant, accurate, smart and well-trained. I'd also like to assume that most CCW holders are just that. There are a good handful of punks who carry to carry, but for the most part, the people who legally carry are the ones who know the responsibility associated with carrying a handgun.
BrianSD_42
New member
Why would a person carrying a firearm affect your desire to go out to lunch with them? My uncle carries and I've never worried about it. He's still doing his thing and hasn't harmed any civilians his entire life.
BrianSD_42
New member
Ahhhhhhh I guess they are unless you are being chased by biker gangs in broad daylight for 45 minutes throughout NYC, even with hundreds of calls to the police .... no police arrived to intervene.
BrianSD_42
New member
The biggest problem with the comparison of auto accidents and guns is that the injurys are the results of two entirely different things.
Guns: 2/3 or over 20,000 deaths a year are from HANDGUNS being used by someone on THEMSELVES. Leaving < 33% of all deaths to be from a person harming another person.
Car Accidents: 99%+ of them are accidents and did not involve anyone trying to purposely harm someone else with a vehicle. Leaving < 1% to be where a vehicle was used as a weapon.
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