You're right. Take away everyone's right to protect themselves. Let's disarm everyone in the country because you're more afraid of sane law abiding citizens than you are of criminals.
New Yorkers... Give up your guns.
- Thread starter SV_Dude
- Start date
You're right. Take away everyone's right to protect themselves. Let's disarm everyone in the country because you're more afraid of sane law abiding citizens than you are of criminals.
hikenbike
New member
Your losing track of the conversation here Josh. It's about the hypothetical of anyone carrying anywhere at anytime. Current info has no bearing since this does not exist.
Would you be ok with arming most of the people in that pic I put up without having them first being proven as extremely capable as you yourself claim to be?
hikenbike
New member
The "sane law abiding" people in that pic are about 65%
Is that your professional opinion or just you being scared of people?
To be fair I can see where some people may be hesitant of being around 5000 people with a gun. If that's the case then you also have the freedom to move to a less crowded place. But how is it fair to restrict someone's right to bear arms because of your insecurities?
JBecker
New member
No, I'm not. You don't trust the law abiding, you ignore facts and logic, and you have no answer as to what should be done to stop criminals from continuing in their enterprise. You are lacking any solid ground to continue your arguments.
You don't think people carry in big cities? That's cute.
bofa
New member
And we're the ones that are paranoid?
nevada
Senior Member
no, we aren't. its him and his kind.
hikenbike
New member
Yup. I'm not the one carrying a gun.
Perhaps you're the one who didn't feel safe walking across a parking lot into a venue without carrying?
hikenbike
New member
Well......apparently I DO trust them.
Your right.....I don't know how to stop criminals. Want me to make stuff up? What do YOU suggest?
You also realize I agree with most of what you want except one thing, right Statistics?
JBecker
New member
I suggest stop making soft targets for criminals to hit. Gun free zones are a complete failure, gun and magazine bans don't do anything to stop crime, and keeping law abiding citizens from carrying a firearm is unconstitutional.
We all get it, you don't want somebody carrying a gun legally wherever they want. You don't want a law abiding citizen to carry a gun in Times Square. You don't want a person who has never committed a crime to be able to exercise their constitutional right because you aren't comfortable with them standing next to you in line at Starbucks with a gun.
wallytoo
Member
i won't pretend to understand the reasoning behind disarming the majority because of a minority.
i do not want the gov't involved in determining whether or not "we" can be armed, nor do i want it keeping track of who is or isn't armed. while it might be nice if all potential CCs got proper training, i won't hold my breath. however, to those who entrust their safety (and their lives) to law enforcement, i sincerely hope you never have to find out whether that works or not. it isn't that LEs are bad, or incompetent; they just cannot be everywhere at once, and response times reflect this.
one of the posters (i believe "hikenbike") claims that he/she doesn't worry about the criminal element because of "clean living" and "do unto others". how convenient, and how incredibly naive. while i absolutely ascribe to the notion of "do unto others", i harbor no illusions about being left alone just because i'm minding my own business, nor do i wish to wait for LE to show up in order to determine my fate.
not long ago (about 1 month), i was driving not far from my residence, on my way to do some work for the town in which i live. it was an icy day, with about 1 inch of fresh snow. on my way to the job, a driver ran a stop sign to get in front of me. fortunately, i was only going about 25mph, so i could slow down to avoid hitting him. less than 200 yards later, he stops in the middle of the road, and then turns off to a driveway without signaling. again, because i was cautious, i could avoid running in to his vehicle. after he pulled into the drive, i gave a quick beep with the horn (really, the horn barely made a noise, less than one-tenth of a second) and kept driving. i made no gestures, nor did i mouth anything toward the driver. just a toot to let him know i had been right behind him. anyway, he backs out, and proceeds to follow me. i went to my jobsite, which was in a remote location, about 5 miles from where his driveway was. i knew i was being followed, but i was working. i parked my runner at an appropriate spot, and climbed out to begin unpacking my gear. driver in the other vehicle stays in his vehicle, but begins yelling, wanting to know "what was that all about?". i asked "what what was about?", to which he mentioned being beeped at. at that point, i told him to have a nice day. ultimately, that was the end; he backed his truck out, and drove away. mind you, as soon as i got out of my runner, i was focused on him. he was a potential threat, but the threat never rose to the level that would have necessitated my unholstering my handgun. if it had, i would have fully expected to be arrested. and that's that. if you CC, and the need ever arises to use your weapon to defend yourself, in most cases (probably better than 95%) you will be arrested by LE when they get to the scene. you should be prepared for that, and make no statement whatsoever until your attorney is present at the detention facility.
that's something that CC people should consider, and take to heart. it isn't just about the decision to defend yourself; it's also about the ramifications of having had to use deadly force to do so. that's just about as important as all the other training that handgun owners should be doing. understand what's likely to happen once the dust settles, and you've (hopefully) neutralized the threat.
i don't take that lightly. i certainly don't consider my handgun to be something akin to a toy. and i wouldn't consider unconcealing it needlessly, as in some places, just "brandishing" it by showing it (not pointing, nor even removing it from its holster - just making it visible) will get you arrested. that isn't something i particularly have any desire to experience.
i do not want the gov't involved in determining whether or not "we" can be armed, nor do i want it keeping track of who is or isn't armed. while it might be nice if all potential CCs got proper training, i won't hold my breath. however, to those who entrust their safety (and their lives) to law enforcement, i sincerely hope you never have to find out whether that works or not. it isn't that LEs are bad, or incompetent; they just cannot be everywhere at once, and response times reflect this.
one of the posters (i believe "hikenbike") claims that he/she doesn't worry about the criminal element because of "clean living" and "do unto others". how convenient, and how incredibly naive. while i absolutely ascribe to the notion of "do unto others", i harbor no illusions about being left alone just because i'm minding my own business, nor do i wish to wait for LE to show up in order to determine my fate.
not long ago (about 1 month), i was driving not far from my residence, on my way to do some work for the town in which i live. it was an icy day, with about 1 inch of fresh snow. on my way to the job, a driver ran a stop sign to get in front of me. fortunately, i was only going about 25mph, so i could slow down to avoid hitting him. less than 200 yards later, he stops in the middle of the road, and then turns off to a driveway without signaling. again, because i was cautious, i could avoid running in to his vehicle. after he pulled into the drive, i gave a quick beep with the horn (really, the horn barely made a noise, less than one-tenth of a second) and kept driving. i made no gestures, nor did i mouth anything toward the driver. just a toot to let him know i had been right behind him. anyway, he backs out, and proceeds to follow me. i went to my jobsite, which was in a remote location, about 5 miles from where his driveway was. i knew i was being followed, but i was working. i parked my runner at an appropriate spot, and climbed out to begin unpacking my gear. driver in the other vehicle stays in his vehicle, but begins yelling, wanting to know "what was that all about?". i asked "what what was about?", to which he mentioned being beeped at. at that point, i told him to have a nice day. ultimately, that was the end; he backed his truck out, and drove away. mind you, as soon as i got out of my runner, i was focused on him. he was a potential threat, but the threat never rose to the level that would have necessitated my unholstering my handgun. if it had, i would have fully expected to be arrested. and that's that. if you CC, and the need ever arises to use your weapon to defend yourself, in most cases (probably better than 95%) you will be arrested by LE when they get to the scene. you should be prepared for that, and make no statement whatsoever until your attorney is present at the detention facility.
that's something that CC people should consider, and take to heart. it isn't just about the decision to defend yourself; it's also about the ramifications of having had to use deadly force to do so. that's just about as important as all the other training that handgun owners should be doing. understand what's likely to happen once the dust settles, and you've (hopefully) neutralized the threat.
i don't take that lightly. i certainly don't consider my handgun to be something akin to a toy. and i wouldn't consider unconcealing it needlessly, as in some places, just "brandishing" it by showing it (not pointing, nor even removing it from its holster - just making it visible) will get you arrested. that isn't something i particularly have any desire to experience.
bofa
New member
Still talking in circles I see...
So let me ask you this - in that pic you posted above with a large crowd - would you, personally, rather be armed or unarmed? This question isn't about others... just you. Keep in mind you believe at least 1/3rd of the crowd to be either insane or criminals.
hikenbike
New member
You apparently can't read.
hikenbike
New member
Unarmed. No different today than at any time for the past 28 years.
JBecker
New member
No I read just fine. But go ahead, keep throwing out your little comments about how we are crazy for exercising our rights. One that is most critical to the preservation of all the other rights, including yours to spout off about how ours should be trampled so you feel safer.
hikenbike
New member
I'm all on board with you bud if you could just change "it might me nice" to "must".
LINY4Runner
New member
Then please outline your actions if for some reason trouble finds you. What will you do?
Scenario: You're walking down a street in midtown manhattan, lets say you're on 49th walking west towards the C, E station to head downtown to see a show at the Knitting Factory on Canal (does that place still exist? I digress) and some punk kid comes up behind you on the staircase with a Desert Eagle in the small of your back. He's never had a NICS check. He's never been to the range. His chances of killing himself by accident are just as high as him killing you. He wants your wallet but he's agitated because you're arrogant and think you're in a bubble of invincibility. You think to yourself you may not get home to see your wife and kids. What do you do?
Do you hand over your wallet? The little leather folder which houses not only your cash, but your credit cards, license (complete with date of birth, ADDRESS where he can find the aforementioned wife and kids), maybe even your social security card if you're that dumb).
Do you beg for your life?
Wouldn't you prefer a fighting chance? A level playing field?
People don't carry because they're scared or paranoid. They carry because they're ready. You can't control when and where trouble finds you, but you CAN control (or should be able to control) how you prepare yourself should that scenario arise.
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LINY4Runner
New member
Actually...for the off topic sub-forum it's probably one of the most civil...for now...
I think that even though some of us disagree we still have a high level of maturity here. That has kept this thread pretty clean and for the most part decent.
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