progress4m
Member
Wow… learned something new here… sorry for misleading\wrong info…. And yes “$500 wrench and puller set for $1400” is absolutely crazy… keep us posted and thank you for the info and feedback.
Noise Diagnosis
- Thread starter mmeuli
- Start date
Wow… learned something new here… sorry for misleading\wrong info…. And yes “$500 wrench and puller set for $1400” is absolutely crazy… keep us posted and thank you for the info and feedback.
DougR
Member
I checked Camelback Toyota Parts. A 100 amp alternator (PN 27060-31260) for my 2011 Trail is sold without a pulley for $279.44 and the pulley (PN 27415-0W131) costs $82.34 ... I don't see an option to buy both assembled and ready to install. A DIYer still has to use tools to disassemble/reassemble if they want to get parts from the dealer. Alternator for 2011 Toyota 4Runner | Camelback Toyota Parts It's a 1.5 hour job for an experienced mechanic to remove and replace the alternator.
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<<<<
Senior Member
If you are going to replace alternator Upgrade to OEM Toyota 130 Amp one (part #27060-31190)
Search Results | Conicelli Toyota of Conshohock
Search Results | Conicelli Toyota of Conshohock
You're 100% right. Either i don't have a clutch pulley or it's 100% defective, bc it spins freely in either direction.
Did the rent a tool at AutoZone for their decoupler pulley tool kit. Of course it didn't fit. It's annoying that the FSM just shows the SST number and not a size bc no one stocks the removal tools locally to manually size it!
I'm checking that out today. Thank you for the recommendation! I popped off the dust cap and aside from being filled with dirt somehow, it spins freely. But i sprayed some wd-40 inside into the raceway, and the noise subsided briefly. So definitely the culprit, just a matter of taking it off now.
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DougR
Member
A clutch pulley has an inside spline (or hex) in the bore of the pulley and a 10mm or 11mm nut inside the spline. A simple pulley would just have a larger nut. Be sure to look for reversed threads if you attempt disassembly.
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So the Gates set listed above fits according to their website. Only negative is the set is over $100, which isn't the issue--more that it's over $100 when you only need 2 bits out of the set. I'm giving this one a whirl OEM TOOLS 27261 Alternator Decoupler Pulley Tool Kit, 5 Piece | Pully Sockets and Shaft Bits fit Most OAD and OWC Pulleys | Alternator Repair Tool, Designed for Universal Use Amazon.com: OEM TOOLS 27261 Alternator Decoupler Pulley Tool Kit, 5 Piece | Pully Sockets and Shaft Bits fit Most OAD and OWC Pulleys | Alternator Repair Tool, Designed for Universal Use: Automotive.
Arrives Thursday. I'll let y'all know the verdict on the tools. Still want to pull the pulley off and see if it's in fact the pulley or instead the bearing inside.
I've had bad luck with bearings lately. My 2 yr old ShopVac had a bearing in the motor explode. Of course ShopVac wants you to replace the entire motor assembly for $60. Can anything just be made well anymore?? Outside of my 4runner, of course.
Considerably off topic, but if you do ever have a bearing go out in a ShopVac, they are an exact match for any skateboard bearing set. A local skate shop actually gave me one for free when i went in to get one. Works like a champ.
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DougR
Member
It's good to see picture of the clutch pulley. Given all the rust(?) or dried grease(?) I suspect your clutch pulley lost lubrication and failed. I'm wondering if you can use the decoupler pulley tools to remove the clutch pulley without removing the alternator. If you're able to do this, you can check for a noisy bearing inside the alternator by spinning the shaft. If no noise, replace the clutch pulley with the alternator still in the vehicle and you should be good to go assuming the alternator was charging OK before the noisy symptom. See YouTube video GATES TRAINING: Alternator Decoupler Pulley Inspection and Replacement - YouTube and watch this time segment 2:53 to 3:05. Have you seen this video? If not, I recommend watching it. I've always rebuilt starters and alternators, so I'm very interested in what you're able to do with yours.
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Was hoping the pulley would get in before this happened...
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DougR
Member
Wow, that belt is shredded into little pieces. If only it could have lasted a couple more days. Nuts! Is the alternator rotor frozen? Have you checked that all the pulleys other than the alternator rotate freely without excessive noise or wobble? If yes, this demonstrates that a properly working clutch pulley reduces stress on the belt by allowing the alternator rotor to spin freely during engine deacceleration. If the alternator rotor is not frozen, and this happened to the belt because the clutch pulley failed, then I'm wondering if the belt tensioner was damaged by excessive belt vibrations over a long period of time. Check for excessive belt bouncing after the alternator is repaired.
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I just want to say that there's a very special place in hell for whoever designed that bolt location for the alternator bracket.
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DougR
Member
I was hoping you could replace the clutch pulley without removing the alternator. According to the videos I've seen, the bolt on an "L" bracket in back of the alternator is very difficult to remove. Were you able to reach it through the wheel well? Does removing the left front wheel help with access?
Not at all. Get ready to cuss a lot and definitely use some good gloves. Finally got to it by going under the harness. Spent a solid hour trying to get to it from above and it's nearly impossible. My ratchet set has all 3 sizes. I used a half inch with a 3/8 coupling, 3 inch extension, and 2 inch long ratchet. If your ratchet is to short it won't get there but the wheel well gets in way if it's too long. There's about an inch of usable space. It's truly a jacked up spot. Used masking tape to hold the bolt to the driver to put it back on. Also that bracket doesn't fit flush with the alternator. There's a slight gap cheated to the outside by 1/32 or so. I just duplicated how it was on the existing.
The top #2 idler pulley was damaged. Not much, but it has a slight wobble now, so i ordered one. Tensioner is surprisingly okay. I'd taken the bearing out and cleaned and repacked. There was a drop of white lithium grease in the bearing a when i pulled it along with some accumulated dust.
Picked up a cheap reman from AutoZone until the
New pulley arrives. Still gotta work! I was on I95 when that belt snapped. The great news is there's a coolant hose directly above the fan, and the belt very specifically snapped into the clamp on that hose, knocking the hose off and draining all the coolant out while on the interstate.
I did put the new alternator on, reclamped hose and refilled coolant. No leaks that i can see. No oil leaking. Just praying the time it took me to pull over on the interstate didn't warp the head or blow the head gasket. Will keep checking the fluid for both for loss and for mix. Gonna flush coolant and change oil once the new pulleys get here to be sure.
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DougR
Member
That’s bad news about the rear “L” bracket. I saw a guy on YouTube who jacked up the left front body (not the frame) to get to this bracket. Apparently, someone at Toyota didn’t check for access and glossed over it by simply stating in the FSM, “Remove rear bracket bolt to engine block.”
“Tensioner is surprisingly okay. I'd taken the bearing out and cleaned and repacked.” We’re on the same page … I’ve done that once or twice on other vehicles.
“… the belt very specifically snapped into the clamp on that hose, knocking the hose off and draining all the coolant out while on the interstate … (I’m) praying the time it took me to pull over on the interstate didn't warp the head or blow the head gasket.” I had to look at my T4R to see how that could happen. I think the tensioner played "snap the whip" with strands of your serpentine belt. I looked up the parts in this area. There are five (5) coolant bypass hoses and two (2) oil cooler hoses!!! I suggest using a small mirror to inspect the underside of these hoses for damage that might lead to a burst hose later. I'm guessing the No. 3 water bypass hose was knocked off. The oil cooler hose appears to be adjacent to the bypass hose ...
“Tensioner is surprisingly okay. I'd taken the bearing out and cleaned and repacked.” We’re on the same page … I’ve done that once or twice on other vehicles.
“… the belt very specifically snapped into the clamp on that hose, knocking the hose off and draining all the coolant out while on the interstate … (I’m) praying the time it took me to pull over on the interstate didn't warp the head or blow the head gasket.” I had to look at my T4R to see how that could happen. I think the tensioner played "snap the whip" with strands of your serpentine belt. I looked up the parts in this area. There are five (5) coolant bypass hoses and two (2) oil cooler hoses!!! I suggest using a small mirror to inspect the underside of these hoses for damage that might lead to a burst hose later. I'm guessing the No. 3 water bypass hose was knocked off. The oil cooler hose appears to be adjacent to the bypass hose ...
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Snap the whip is only good in the bedroom [emoji38]
Everything is okay so far. Still no oil or coolant issues. Might've dodged a very expensive bullet.
The fsm just says "remove bracket" lol. Wish I'd seen that video
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I meant to post an up close photo of the alternator pulley. My takeaway from this experience is to use a cheap stethoscope if you suspect noise coming from a pulley or accessory. Either that or a long ratchet or screwdriver stuffed in a funnel. Don't wait, don't use regular shipping if you isolate the noise to a specific pulley, especially the clutch pulley, and research creative ways to cuss when removing the alternator.
Also, every 5th Gen 4Runner owner should AT THE VERY LEAST order a clutch pulley set just to have on hand and maybe for good measure, an extra clutch pulley (I grabbed some new idler pullies too. Old ones weren't in bad shape except the slight wobble in 1, but after snapping a belt, and how long it took to get a clutch pulley in, it's worth having backups in my mind.
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DougR
Member
According to a Gates training video (GATES TRAINING: Alternator Decoupler Pulley Inspection and Replacement - YouTube), a common symptom on high mileage vehicles is clutch bearing noise during engine shutdown (time stamp 0:30). This requires an assistant to rev up the engine to 2000-2500 RPM and turning off the engine at speed while you stand next to the engine and listen for bearing noise as the alternator rotor spins down from inertia.
A failing clutch pulley probably "binds and locks up" even when its on the verge of failure while the engine is idling, making it harder to detect noise with a stethoscope or one's ear while the engine is idling. On vehicle inspection with the serpentine belt in place requires special tools and damages the clutch pulley cover (time stamp 1:05).
Your picture in post 27 appears to show rust (or fine metal dust?) streaking outwards from under the front cover. Any streaking on the pulley or alternator housing are likely indications of a pulley about to fail and I strongly recommend performing the engine rev up-shutdown test and/or loosening the belt tensioner and inspecting the clutch pulley.
Always inspect alternator clutch pulley, tensioner and idler pulleys during a belt change. A clutch pulley should lock up in the direction of engine rotation and freewheel in the opposite direction.
This has been a good DIY repair topic. I learned a lot.
A failing clutch pulley probably "binds and locks up" even when its on the verge of failure while the engine is idling, making it harder to detect noise with a stethoscope or one's ear while the engine is idling. On vehicle inspection with the serpentine belt in place requires special tools and damages the clutch pulley cover (time stamp 1:05).
Your picture in post 27 appears to show rust (or fine metal dust?) streaking outwards from under the front cover. Any streaking on the pulley or alternator housing are likely indications of a pulley about to fail and I strongly recommend performing the engine rev up-shutdown test and/or loosening the belt tensioner and inspecting the clutch pulley.
Always inspect alternator clutch pulley, tensioner and idler pulleys during a belt change. A clutch pulley should lock up in the direction of engine rotation and freewheel in the opposite direction.
This has been a good DIY repair topic. I learned a lot.
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I did too. And i really appreciate the references. FYI that clutch pulley tool set I got from Amazon was exactly right. And only $28.99.
My biggest issue was just finding a pulley. The dealership charges $90 for it and ours locally still didn't have it. Found a bunch online that earliest delivery was several days.
I'm guessing like you pointed out that the failure was most likely caused by a faulty dust cap. Really surprised that a 4 yr old vehicle had an alternator pulley that rusted. But who knows.
Thank you again for the insight and help. I really do appreciate it.
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DougR
Member
I thought you replaced the entire alternator with a rebuilt, and therefore didn't change the clutch pulley. How do you like the tool?
I'm surprised they didn't have it. That's really odd. I prefer OEM parts when I don't know the quality of after market.
I didn't intend to imply that failure was due to a faulty dust cap. I think a seal on a bearing inside the clutch pulley failed. This would have dried out the grease, overheated a bearing, and perhaps ground metal plating or special coatings into dust and then rust (or perhaps dust?) mixed with dried and well cooked grease appeared from under the cap.
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1000MPH
Senior Member
Wow, looks like it went from bad to worse before you were able to finally get on top of it.
I really appreciate these threads, I know it will be helpful to folks down the road.
When you have time, it would be great if you could identify the size of the tools that fit. Looks like you can buy them separately if you don’t want to get a full kit. I did throw that $26 kit in my Amazon cart for future reference.
Gates makes replacement idlers and pulleys if anyone balks at OEM prices.
I really appreciate these threads, I know it will be helpful to folks down the road.
When you have time, it would be great if you could identify the size of the tools that fit. Looks like you can buy them separately if you don’t want to get a full kit. I did throw that $26 kit in my Amazon cart for future reference.
Gates makes replacement idlers and pulleys if anyone balks at OEM prices.
