Not Another Tire Thread

[MT Runner]

So I’m looking at bumping up a size to 33’s for my next tire purchase. But this isn’t necessarily a “which tire is best?” question.

I’m more wondering about tire weight. I feel like this is an often overlooked aspect of all the tire talk.

It’s inevitable that the new tires will be heavier, but I’m curious on people’s real world experience with how their vehicles respond to the heavier tires. If people went up to a substantially heavier tire, did you see a dramatic decrease in mpg’s, premature wear and tear on anything, any noticeable decrease in “umph”?

When I first got the 4Runner it had 41lb stock sized tires.
Then I went to a 255/75 Duratracs that weighed in at 40lbs each.
And I currently have 255/75 KO2’s that weigh in at 47lbs each.

Maybe I’m overthinking it, but I have a hard time putting something on that is pushing 60lbs per tire, which would be close to 20lbs or 50% heavier on each corner. Especially without a re-gear.

I’m a fan of the tall skinny tires, so I’m going to go with a 255/80 next time around.
I kind of have it narrowed down to the Falken Wildpeak AT3 (52.5lbs) as my top choice. With the Toyo Open Country A/T (50lbs) in second.

The Nitto Ridge Grappler (54.9lbs) and Cooper Discoverer ST Maxx (58lbs) are on the radar, but maybe a bit too heavy.

Opinions? Am I overthinking it? Are one of the heavier tires that much better than the lighter ones to the point that the trade off is worth it?

From what I’ve read and heard over the last couple years, all 4 of these tires are solid choices, so all else equal, I lean towards the lighter options.

 

[volkinator]

I don't have much to contribute, but I want to follow this. I'm sure there are other threads but this seems relevant. On another note, how do you like your 255/75's because that's what I'm hoping to move to when mine wear out. I've got the wheels ready. Any rubbing on the body mount?

 

[S p a r k y]

I have had 285/70's on mine since 2013. First was Duratracs (D load) and now on Ridge Grapplers (C load). Dura's I think i took them off at 65,000 miles, and sold them for $300. Lots of life still in them. I have 54,000 on the Graps as of right now since 2017. Over the last 2.5 years with graps i have averaged 14.6 MPG. Lots of highway miles for me. If i wasn't going 80+ most of the time i can get 15-15.5 per tank when "taking it easy" I tow some too, so that doesn't help the average. Never had any "wearing out" problems. I have done front hubs etc, but i don't think thats tires. its just pure mileage, I am at 255,000 currently.

I do have the V8, so that does help my low end torque i feel. I don't have any issue at all with my power or gearing. Very happy and does what it needs too. Have a 16 or 18 ft enclosed dual axle trailer that is completely finished inside at work that i have pulled from time to time. When there is a good amount of stuff in it, yes i know im hauling it, no question. Good as a full size, probably not. But don't have any issues.

Tire comparison. Dura's were awesome, got loud as heck quick though. I will say i like the Ridge graps better, purely the noise factor. Both handle great, i am very surprised with them. I would and probably will buy the graps again for sure. Before 33's i had pmetric old version falkens. Hated them, they are not a fair comparison to the new ones. AT3's are behind the graps for me for next tire. Money savings i may go Falken. Toyo AT3 was just released, size chart coming out soon. Custom Offset has a video.

Being a V6 i know there isn't much difference. I wouldn't think it would pull you down much more. Be fine with heavier tires.

Hope I helped!!

 

[Drift Monkey]

fwiw my weapon of choice will be 285/70R17 Wildpeak AT3Ws in p-metric pretty soon here.

 

[MT Runner]

On another note, how do you like your 255/75's because that's what I'm hoping to move to when mine wear out. I've got the wheels ready. Any rubbing on the body mount?

Ive really liked them. No need for a BMC at that size, just pushing the fender liners forward and up a little bit and that’s it.

 

[Inv4drZm]

The heavier the tire, the more durable against punctures generally speaking.

I would say a taller tire would have a larger effect on mpg and sluggishness more than a heavier one so as long as they are the same size I don't think it really matters much.

35's are 70 -75 lbs a tire and I haven't noticed any extra wear associated with them, stock front lower control arms and steering. I wouldn't bat an eye at any 33" tire maintenance-wise.

 

[Keros]

I always get excited about tire threads. I love tires, so much fun.

Okay Okay Okay... so unfortunately I never Dyno'd my truck with the stock tires on, so I never knew how much of an effect the Fuel Beast wheels would have with the heavy KO2's on them. So I did a bunch of research and I found a Corvette guy who did extensive testing for science. And every tire/car nerd out there. He's a real champion.

Due to time constraints and lazyness, I will copy/paste the post from a PDF, apologies for the weird formatting. this is from Corvette Forums, user name is pianoprodigy. He's a real hero, an MVP of horsepower.

Now, I will preface all this by saying the following:
1. I realize that this test does not take into account the front wheels in any way, shape, or form. Obviously, there is a "rolling resistance" that must be overcome to accelerate. Regardless, this test was conducted to determine RWHP loss.
2. I realize that dynos are tuning tools. These tests are far from conclusive; however, every reasonable step possible was taken to make this test repeatable. We have all heard over the years how important the weight of your wheels are. I've heard everything from "1 lb of unsprung weight = 2-4 lbs of sprung weight" to "each pound of unsprung weight robs .8 hp."

Many have theorized and some have tested, but I have never seen a test done such as what I did this evening. I recently purchased 18" Chrome Z07 wheels from a private forum member. He got them from Ace Alloys. It is my understanding that Ace Alloys is the manufacturer and everyone else is just a distributor.

I raced a fellow Z06 driver after mounting these wheels and lost
serious ground from the previous week when I still had my stock wheels. Needless to say, I was concerned. I dynoed the next Wednesday and my numbers were much lower than expected.

I decided this week to redyno the car on a local, in-ground Dynojet first with the stock wheels and then with the Z07 wheels. I wanted to know how much RWHP the "heavy" wheels really stole.

First, I weighed each tire/wheel combination. I removed the drag radials from my stock wheels and mounted them on my Z07s, so my stock rear 18" Z06 wheels had no tires. I decided to use the stock 17" wheel with the stock Goodyear 265/40-17.

Combo 1: Stock 17" Z06 Wheel with stock 265/40-17 = 43 lbs
Combo 2: Chrome Z07 Wheel with Nitto 555R Drag Radials 305/35-18 = 59.5 lbs

That's a whopping 16.5 lbs difference for each wheel/tire. 33 lbs total.

I really didn't know what to expect. I determined before in my mind that the differencewould have to be at least 15 rwhp for me to switch back to either my stock wheels or to an even lighter wheel/tire combo.

Each pull was done with ambient temps in the low 70s. The straps were equally tight (as close as can reasonably be). The car was right on the top of the rollers each time. The oil temps were also the same for each of the pulls. At least 2 pulls were done with each set of wheels. AFRs for each pull was dead-on 13:1.

We dynoed Combo 1 first (Stock 17"). The best pull was 421 rwhp and 395 rwtq.

Next we dynoed Combo 2 (18" Z07). The best pull was 409 rwhp and 386 rwtq.

So, the 33 lbs extra weight on the rear hubs robbed 12 rwhp and 9 rwtq. Some quick calculations reveals that, in this test, .36 rwhp was lost per extra pound of unsprung weight. I guess an easier to remember "rule of thumb" could be, "For each 3 lbs extra unsprung weight, you will lose 1 rwhp."

So, you may ask, are you going to switch wheels? Right now, probably not. I'm going to look into my options, but I don't know if I want to spend the amount of money I would need to spend on a nice, light set of wheels.

-Alan

Consequently, based on this equation, the numbers I got on the dyno based on general rules of thumb about driveline losses, it does line up to the numbers I got.

 

[MT Runner]

Tire comparison. Dura's were awesome, got loud as heck quick though. I will say i like the Ridge graps better, purely the noise factor. Both handle great, i am very surprised with them. I would and probably will buy the graps again for sure. Before 33's i had pmetric old version falkens. Hated them, they are not a fair comparison to the new ones. AT3's are behind the graps for me for next tire. Money savings i may go Falken. Toyo AT3 was just released, size chart coming out soon. Custom Offset has a video.

Being a V6 i know there isn't much difference. I wouldn't think it would pull you down much more. Be fine with heavier tires.

Hope I helped!!

Thanks for the input!
I agree on the duratracs, they seemed to get really loud after about 25k.

I had to look up the Toyo AT3, that’s a good looking tire, definitely going to watch that one. They have a size chart on their website and it looks like they don’t have a 255/80 at this point. I would think they’d come out with that size eventually.

 

[hinmo24t]

I love the 255 75 17 and weight is nice and they perform

 

[MT Runner]

I always get excited about tire threads. I love tires, so much fun.

Okay Okay Okay... so unfortunately I never Dyno'd my truck with the stock tires on, so I never knew how much of an effect the Fuel Beast wheels would have with the heavy KO2's on them. So I did a bunch of research and I found a Corvette guy who did extensive testing for science. And every tire/car nerd out there. He's a real champion.

Due to time constraints and lazyness, I will copy/paste the post from a PDF, apologies for the weird formatting. this is from Corvette Forums, user name is pianoprodigy. He's a real hero, an MVP of horsepower.



Consequently, based on this equation, the numbers I got on the dyno based on general rules of thumb about driveline losses, it does line up to the numbers I got.

Thanks, that’s actually really interesting.

So going by that formula, my current tires at 47lbs each are 6lbs heavier than stock (or at least what was on there when I bought it). 6x4= 24lbs total/3 would be a 8hp loss.

Going to a 52lb tire, 11lb difference per tire, 44lb total for a loss of 14.5hp from stock.

Not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, but interesting to see.

Along those lines, anyone have any idea how heavy the 5 spoke rim is? Curious to know the difference between the stock rim and the wheels I put on. I didn’t think to weigh them a couple years ago when I made the change.

 

[Keros]

Thanks, that’s actually really interesting.

So going by that formula, my current tires at 47lbs each are 6lbs heavier than stock (or at least what was on there when I bought it). 6x4= 24lbs total/3 would be a 8hp loss.

Going to a 52lb tire, 11lb difference per tire, 44lb total for a loss of 14.5hp from stock.

Not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, but interesting to see.

Along those lines, anyone have any idea how heavy the 5 spoke rim is? Curious to know the difference between the stock rim and the wheels I put on. I didn’t think to weigh them a couple years ago when I made the change.

Going from memory only, 27lbs sticks out in my mind for the weight of the 17x7.5 5-star style wheel.

 

[doofenshmirtz]

Along those lines, anyone have any idea how heavy the 5 spoke rim is? Curious to know the difference between the stock rim and the wheels I put on. I didn’t think to weigh them a couple years ago when I made the change.

Going from memory only, 27lbs sticks out in my mind for the weight of the 17x7.5 5-star style wheel.

I think that's about right. I have some unmounted in the garage that I can weigh, for science. I remembered my f(x) pro wheels were supposed to be ~4lbs lighter than the 5 spoke, and the f(x) pro is ~23.88 per FN's website.

 

[MT Runner]

I think that's about right. I have some unmounted in the garage that I can weigh, for science. I remembered my f(x) pro wheels were supposed to be ~4lbs lighter than the 5 spoke, and the f(x) pro is ~23.88 per FN's website.

That does sound about right. I know my Level 8 MK6’s are 29lbs and I seem to remember hearing that they were slightly heavier than the stock wheels. That’s what I get for going with a cheaper wheel.

I do like the looks of my wheels and really in the whole scheme of things it’s not a big deal, but in hindsight if I were to do it again I’d probably go with a higher quality wheel that weighs less than the stock setup.