Not starting each time I get gas

[Laidflat]

Pretty certain this is emissions related but I have a 2001 4runner sr5 4x4 that is stock except for a k&n fipk kit, lift, and one size bigger tires.

The problem I'm having is every time I get gas and I go to start it and it won't start unless I push the pedal to the floor. Each time I fill up I am getting 14-15 mpg 95% hwy. and to clarify fill up I mean when the pump stops on the first click.

I bought this tr4 two months ago and it has been the issue since I bought, I should also mention I am getting the good ol po440, po441, po446 codes but when I search them nobody else seems to have an issue like mine. I'm hoping I don't need to replace the charcoal canister, I am looking for things to trouble shoot first and not throw parts at it. Thanks in advance

 

[Troybylt]

Well those codes indicate an issue with your evap system, could as simple as a gas cap, or as much a pain as a vacuum leak.

A gas cap is an easy one to rule out, borrow a buddy's and clear the codes, drive around and if they come back you can rule that out.

Charcol canisters rarely go bad, but it does happen cant really help you troublw shoot there.

Have you tested your fuel pressure after filling up, you pump might be going bad, fuel pumps are cooled in the liquid gasoline and can over heat if run on empty for tool ong or if they're just old, when you fill the tank with cold gas (even if it's 100deg oustide the gas stations underground tanks will be relatively very cold compared to you pump) the pump may seize up from the cold. Unlikely but possible. How old is the fuel pump?

Lastly with the truck idleing in park, look around and listen and smell for Vacuum leaks or fuel fumes to help trace down a vac leak. You can also try spraying brake clean on the hoses to see it the idle increases, if idle increases while spraying you have probably found a leak.

 

[Laidflat]

I have done the spray method to check for leaks, there aren't any fuel smells and I rarely let the tank go below 1/2 on any of my vehicles. But that's not to say how the previous person maintained fuel levels.

It always runs nice and smooth and It never hesitates to start EXCEPT after I fill up. I find it hard to believe the cap would only cause a problem after getting gas. I'm leaning towards a saturated canister or a vsv.

 

[jeremyc74]

Charcol canisters rarely go bad, but it does happen cant really help you troublw shoot there.

.

Actually it's a fairly common failure on the 4Runner, and expensive to replace, but I've never seen anyone report that preventing the truck from starting. It might be the cause of the codes, but I don't see how it would cause it not to start.

OP, the first thing I would do would be to put a fuel pressure gauge on it and see where you're at when you're starting the truck. On a carbureted engine putting your foot to the floor to start it means you're dumping too much fuel in to begin with. On a fuel injected engine it may not be that simple. The ECU could be taking the WOT signal and manipulating all sorts of things.

This one's tough because you have no idea of the history of repairs that led to this. Fuel pressure monitoring would be the first step. That will allow you to rule out the pump, regulator, and fuel pump relay.

 

[Laidflat]

I'll pick up a tester after work and check it out. But what about the poor mpg? I see everyone claiming at least 18 and no matter how conservative I drive I can't get over 15

 

[jeremyc74]

I'll pick up a tester after work and check it out. But what about the poor mpg? I see everyone claiming at least 18 and no matter how conservative I drive I can't get over 15

Fuel pressure issues can cause poor mileage, but it could be any number of things. I'd worry about the starting issues first, and once that's resolved see where the mileage is at. It's possible they're completely unrelated issues.

Just out of curiosity, the next time you fill up, crank it for a while before you try putting your foot to the floor. It's possible it's just taking a long time to build up enough fuel pressure to start, and you're resorting to other methods that don't really have any effect.

If that's the case you could have a bad regulator, a clogged filter, or the check valve in the pump could be bad.

 

[Laidflat]

When I first bought it that's when I discovered it, and it took a while longer for it to not start vs holding the pedal to the floor. I'll check the pressure out and see.

 

[Sisente]

Had the same exact problem in my daughters Santa Fe. It was emissions related. On the Santa Fe, it is called a purge valve. Not sure if the runners have these or not.

 

[Laidflat]

They do, and in glad you brought up the purge valve. Was something I was suspecting

 

[jeremyc74]

Had the same exact problem in my daughters Santa Fe. It was emissions related. On the Santa Fe, it is called a purge valve. Not sure if the runners have these or not.

Interesting. I found this old thread:

decided to update you guys on boston's post. There is actually a "TSB" (technical service bulletin) for this EVAP problem. It's a design flaw in toyotas and i saw it last night under my truck with a mechanic/engineer.

The problem is when you fill up...and you try to squeeze that extra fuel in to even up the tab (top off)...because of the placement of the system (charcoal canister and the VSV) which is located near the fuel tank and close to the spare under the rear axle...because of where it sits and that it is not placed higher than the fuel tank...if you top it off fuel tends to saturate the canister and gives codes P0440, P0441 & P0446. It's really a stupid design flaw that happens to alot of toyota owners (not limited to 4Runners)...and Toyota won't help you cause the TSB states that the repair is a not applicable to warranty!

My buddy said to drive it for a while and keep the fuel low (give it a chance to dry up)...but...if the light keeps coming on...then i won't have the choice but to do the repair (and it ain't cheap...the parts are $$$) I have the repair guide in case you want to tackle it yourselves (I can e-mail it to you...PDF file)

from now on i will stop topping off...hope this helps. I found alot of stuff on this problem lastr night and alot of unhappy campers. (cause it's a defect that costs alot to fix)

Good luck with the light not coming on!
-B

CODE P0441 on 1997 4RUNNER SR5 3.4 LITER - YotaTech Forums


I'm not sure how that causes the long starts, but maybe the saturation prevents proper tank venting and causes a vapor lock or something.

Maybe keep it below 3/4 tank for a while to let things dry out and see if the problem persists.

 

[Laidflat]

I may try that, might be hard since I'm OCD with having a full tank haha.

 

[Laidflat]

Also is it normal to not hear a hissing sound when removing the gas cap? I read somewhere that if you don't hear a hissing sounds on these trucks then you have a faulty cap or vacuum leak.

 

[KidVermicious]

Is is really not starting only when you fill the tank? Or is just having trouble starting when the engine is warm...

 

[Sisente]

Also is it normal to not hear a hissing sound when removing the gas cap? I read somewhere that if you don't hear a hissing sounds on these trucks then you have a faulty cap or vacuum leak.

For the Santa Fe, if I let it sit for a few minutes, it would start. The purge valve replacement fixed this.

 

[Laidflat]

Is is really not starting only when you fill the tank? Or is just having trouble starting when the engine is warm...

The only time it ever acts up is when I put gas in it. It takes about 30 seconds of cranking before it starts, then it will stumble for a bit, sometimes stall. After it clears up I can turn it off and restart it and it's like it never had a problem.

This is also the first vehicle I have owned that I noticed wouldn't hiss after removing the cap.

 

[Laidflat]

For the Santa Fe, if I let it sit for a few minutes, it would start. The purge valve replacement fixed this.

I will try letting it sit after getting gas to see if this does anything. That might help narrow the problem down.

 

[nevada]

I will try letting it sit after getting gas to see if this does anything. That might help narrow the problem down.

pop the cap, without getting fuel, see if it does the same.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

My charcoal canister cracked. Small hairline crack. It would throw a code every couple of months when real hot and driving for a long time. But started fine.

The canister was not cheap considering it looks like something you would get fishing worms in.

I agree with some of the comments above. When you fill it only do about a 1/2 tank. That will help narrow down to like a pinched or faulty evap line. Symptoms are typical of what used to be called vapor lock. ;-)

 

[LittleCaesar]

Here is a cheap vacuum switching valve:

www.amazon.com/Dorman-911-601-Toyot...=au_as_r?ie=UTF8&Make=Toyota|76&Model=4Runner |1005&Year=2001|2001&n=15684181&newVehicle=1&s=automotive&vehicleId=1&vehicleType=automotive

 

[Laidflat]

Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments. I opened the gas cap to see if it would cause the start issue, of course it did not.

I checked the two vsv switches under the hood for leaks and nothing came up. I did however find this metal vacuum connected to nothing and a plugged port.