Not the worst way to spend 1 min & 43 seconds

[jgue467]

Frame swap on a taco vid: https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/toyota-frame-settlement-could-cost-company-34-billion

:cowboy:

 

[mtbtim]

I read some of the responses from people complaining that time expired for their claim to have Toyota replace the frames. But, is their anger misplaced? Isn't this more a result of the areas of the country that decide to use salt to de-ice the roads than a problem with the way Toyota built and rust-proofed the frames? What about all the other components, fasteners, and body parts that get rusted to shit from the corrosive salting of the roads. Is Toyota responsible for that as well? Shouldn't their anger be directed to the people who've made the decision to use salt instead of other non-corrosive options?

Here's an interesting article to read:https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/tire-talk/pros-and-cons-of-using-road-salt-in-winter

The bottom line, de-icing the road saves lives and salt is cheap so it will continue to be used for a long long time.

It really makes me glad I live in an area of the country that has mild winters and therefore no need to salt the roads. Some of the nicest classic cars come from California because they're not rusted to shit from the road salt.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

The salt is only part of the problem. These frames were not properly coated to begin with and Toyota admitted that with this recall. Had they been properly coated, they would still rust, just not nearly as quickly. When I bought my 2016 4R brand new, I started taking matters into my own hands right away. 3 coats of paint on the whole frame and all suspension components, paint inside the frame as best as possible, fully undercoated frame and floors. Lubed the spare tire winch which I do twice a year. I paint the under side of the truck 2-3 times a year to cover everything that I can't coat with undercoating. I also plan to spray oil inside the frame rails using a weed killer spray bottle and allow it to run out for a couple days before driving the truck. With all this, if the frame still rots, I say Toyota is at fault for sure lol.

 

[Horsethief]

I read some of the responses from people complaining that time expired for their claim to have Toyota replace the frames. But, is their anger misplaced? Isn't this more a result of the areas of the country that decide to use salt to de-ice the roads than a problem with the way Toyota built and rust-proofed the frames? What about all the other components, fasteners, and body parts that get rusted to shit from the corrosive salting of the roads. Is Toyota responsible for that as well? Shouldn't their anger be directed to the people who've made the decision to use salt instead of other non-corrosive options?

Here's an interesting article to read:https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/tire-talk/pros-and-cons-of-using-road-salt-in-winter

The bottom line, de-icing the road saves lives and salt is cheap so it will continue to be used for a long long time.

It really makes me glad I live in an area of the country that has mild winters and therefore no need to salt the roads. Some of the nicest classic cars come from California because they're not rusted to shit from the road salt.

The thing is though, the Toyotas seem to be a lot more prone to it than other makes. I live in the northeast, and yes, salt and winters are hard on cars and trucks. However, there are plenty of GM, Ford, Nissan, etc SUV's running around from the same period that do not have frame rot issues. Surface rust is one thing, but seeing a rear control arm mount completely rotted off the frame rail is another.

Not that it NEVER happens with other makes, but like I said, it seems to be prevalent with Toyotas. I'm looking for a 3rd gen right now, and that's the first thing I ask about and look at, the frame. A few months ago I found a 99 that looked mint. Before driving 3 hours to see it, I was lucky enough to find the dealer who had taken it on trade and wholesaled it. Their service dept. advised me not to buy it, as at it's last service they found extensive corrosion damage to the frame.

 

[mtbtim]

Well, you guys make some good points. But, all I know is a Toyota frame will pretty last forever in the California Bay Area because of the fact there isn't corrosive road-salting going on. I guess Toyota could have done a better job protecting the frames from corrosion but the real problem lies in the salting of the roads. Every vehicle I've owned, including my two 3rd Gens were/are essentially 95% rust free because of the lack of road-salting.

But, what about my other question? Should Toyota also be responsible for all the rusted body parts, suspension components, fasteners, etc because those get rusted to shit as well for the road-salting? I've seen the pics and videos of 3rd Gen owners from the rust belts of the country. Their entire undercarriages are covered in rust. People remark all the time on our YouTube channel how amazingly non-rusty our California rigs are.

 

[Kanoe]

The thing is though, the Toyotas seem to be a lot more prone to it than other makes.

I'm not sure if this is true across the board. In general I think the 3rd gens have held up pretty well. We have a lot of 3rd gens on the road here. You do not see very many Nissans, or Broncos or Blazers from that era that are in any better shape. I think the Toyotas are as good as any others and it comes down to care and attention on the owners part.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Well, you guys make some good points. But, all I know is a Toyota frame will pretty last forever in the California Bay Area because of the fact there isn't corrosive road-salting going on. I guess Toyota could have done a better job protecting the frames from corrosion but the real problem lies in the salting of the roads. Every vehicle I've owned, including my two 3rd Gens were/are essentially 95% rust free because of the lack of road-salting.

But, what about my other question? Should Toyota also be responsible for all the rusted body parts, suspension components, fasteners, etc because those get rusted to shit as well for the road-salting? I've seen the pics and videos of 3rd Gen owners from the rust belts of the country. Their entire undercarriages are covered in rust. People remark all the time on our YouTube channel how amazingly non-rusty our California rigs are.

Anything requiring replacement due to disassembly for the frame swap is covered. The frame comes as a kit with all new fasteners, cam bolts, everything needed so no fasteners are reused and no concerns of broken, rusted, stripped components left behind. Check this swap out. much more in depth than the original post but it's also a lot longer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuo9uC42RVw

 

[Scramble]

I'm not sure if this is true across the board. In general I think the 3rd gens have held up pretty well. We have a lot of 3rd gens on the road here. You do not see very many Nissans, or Broncos or Blazers from that era that are in any better shape. I think the Toyotas are as good as any others and it comes down to care and attention on the owners part.

4runner frames are much better than the Mexico Dana frames on the Tacos, Tundras & Sequoias. There are pretty much no other 90's SUV's driving around up here, mostly Cherokee's & 4Runners. The POS Explorers & Durangos are gone. They were rusting away 10 years ago! LOL.

Gotta give my hat off to Toyota, any other car company would be ignoring these complaints.

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

Surface rust is one thing, but seeing a rear control arm mount completely rotted off the frame rail is another.

Not that it NEVER happens with other makes, but like I said, it seems to be prevalent with Toyotas.

I've seen way too many jeep TJ's with frames rotting away far worse then a 4runner around here, and those TJ's are generally newer. It's scary to look at a used TJ and see these hoakie frame "repair" caps that slip over the rotted out sections then get tack welded to any remaining frame rail.

I know that around Maryland, the state highway dept will use a pre-treatment of magnesium-chloride which is supposed to help keep the asphalt from freezing so that the road salt will work better. The chemical is literally destroying the concrete bridge abutments and speeding up the corrosion on the rebar in the concrete and structural steel, no less how it's destroying anything aluminum on a car. I can't blame all of the frame rust issues on that one chemical, but it sure isn't helping any vehicle have a long life span around here.

 

[Mark_BC]

6:18 Man that guy sure can work fast! He deserves a raise.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Pretty cool to watch though.

 

[thezentree]

Keeping track of that pile of fasteners would give me a heart attack.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

After you've done it a few times though i'm sure it gets easy. Looks like he got that whole swap done in less than 2 days.

 

[Blackbeard]

Fast! Nice video

 

[thezentree]

After you've done it a few times though i'm sure it gets easy. Looks like he got that whole swap done in less than 2 days.

Yeah that stack of rusty frames sure gives the impression that the novelty of a frame swap had long since worn off for that guy..

 

[mtbtim]

The salt is only part of the problem. These frames were not properly coated to begin with and Toyota admitted that with this recall. Had they been properly coated, they would still rust, just not nearly as quickly. When I bought my 2016 4R brand new, I started taking matters into my own hands right away. 3 coats of paint on the whole frame and all suspension components, paint inside the frame as best as possible, fully undercoated frame and floors. Lubed the spare tire winch which I do twice a year. I paint the under side of the truck 2-3 times a year to cover everything that I can't coat with undercoating. I also plan to spray oil inside the frame rails using a weed killer spray bottle and allow it to run out for a couple days before driving the truck. With all this, if the frame still rots, I say Toyota is at fault for sure lol.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. The SALT is the main problem and why these frames are rusting. It's a simple cause and effect. Like I said, without the salt, these Toyota frames would essentially last forever.

I'm guessing the cost for Toyota to better treat the frames to prevent them from rusting due to the policy of salting the roads is more than it is to settle the claims from customers.

Your 2016 4runner just lives in the wrong area of the country. The California Bay Area has one the least affordable housing markets in the world but at least our vehicles don't rust to shit. So, we can safely live in our 4runners without worrying about the frame disintegrating out from under us.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. The SALT is the main problem and why these frames are rusting. It's a simple cause and effect. Like I said, without the salt, these Toyota frames would essentially last forever.

I'm guessing the cost for Toyota to better treat the frames to prevent them from rusting due to the policy of salting the roads is more than it is to settle the claims from customers.

Your 2016 4runner just lives in the wrong area of the country. The California Bay Area has one the least affordable housing markets in the world but at least our vehicles don't rust to shit. So, we can safely live in our 4runners without worrying about the frame disintegrating out from under us.

Looks like Cali has something going for it after all! I agree the salt is a contributing factor but at least some of us take the steps to try and preserve our trucks. If Toyota did what end users do, the problem would never be a problem to begin with. Coat the frame properly, inside and out, problem solved and that is 100% on Toyota. Will mine rot out and be part of the pending 5th gen frame recall despite my best efforts? Maybe, but at least I can say I tried.

 

[Mark_BC]

Will mine rot out and be part of the pending 5th gen frame recall despite my best efforts? Maybe, but at least I can say I tried.

I think if you paint it well and then apply fluid film regularly and inspect it, it should last in the salt states. The problem is with people who never look down there. Once the rust starts it has no more protection and just keeps going.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

I think if you paint it well and then apply fluid film regularly and inspect it, it should last in the salt states. The problem is with people who never look down there. Once the rust starts it has no more protection and just keeps going.

No fluid film, used engine oil in a weed killer spray bottle inside the frame rails. Do it at every 5K mile oil change, allow to sit and drain out with some cardboard under it, nothing will ever rust.

 

[Horsethief]

I've seen way too many jeep TJ's with frames rotting away far worse then a 4runner around here, and those TJ's are generally newer. It's scary to look at a used TJ and see these hoakie frame "repair" caps that slip over the rotted out sections then get tack welded to any remaining frame rail.

I know that around Maryland, the state highway dept will use a pre-treatment of magnesium-chloride which is supposed to help keep the asphalt from freezing so that the road salt will work better. The chemical is literally destroying the concrete bridge abutments and speeding up the corrosion on the rebar in the concrete and structural steel, no less how it's destroying anything aluminum on a car. I can't blame all of the frame rust issues on that one chemical, but it sure isn't helping any vehicle have a long life span around here.

Great point, I don't know how the TJ's slipped my mind. I was even considering buying one for a while, but yeah, most of them are effected by some sort of frame issues. TJ's were made from '97-'06, so they overlap 3rd and 4th gen production. Also, you're buying possible a 20-ish year old Jeep, so get ready for a lot of little things to nickel and dime you to death.

This is why I'm looking for a 4Runner as opposed to a WJ, which IMO realistically is probably a better platform for a trail build (V8, solid axles). I just don't want to deal with all the little Jeep stuff. I owned a 97 Grand Cherokee for 12 years, it NEVER left me stranded, but there's was always some sort of little thing that needed attention.