Obama: US has always paid it's bills

[soj1057]

I hear what you're saying and I can't argue with your fantasies, however this is all pipe dreams and will NEVER happen for the same reasons today's system isn't working.

But why not?

 

[RunninInGA]

But why not?

For the same reasons you say BigNuge's ideas won't work. People only work together with someone else to the extent and up to the point to where they receive benefit as well.

 

[nevada]

I read the article. I could almost hear the death throws of an ancient, bloated dying beast in the distance as I read. Brought down by short sightedness, lack of or false concern for others, racisim, ignorance and greed. It was wierd.

I’m interested as to how you can form an opinion like that from my statements on parties..... Or are my eyes closed because I don't align myself with you and BigNuge?

When the Framers of our Constitution designed our system of representative democracy it was an experiment. There was no other country with a government like it, and there never had been. As a matter of fact there is no mention of political parties in our Constitution....

Further, when the creators of our system / country spoke about them, they usually called them "factions" and when they DID speak of them, they warned about the danger in dividing a country with them.

see your quote above.

if THAT is what you got from that article, you are either intentionally ignorant, or are blind to it. thus, eyes closed.

also, where is it that anyone is trying to get you to think, or do things the way we do?


whats happening is, one group is standing on their side of the fence, trying force their beliefs on the other group.

and we're over here going "WTF. that's not right!"

 

[soj1057]

see your quote above.

if THAT is what you got from that article, you are either intentionally ignorant, or are blind to it. thus, eyes closed.

also, where is it that anyone is trying to get you to think, or do things the way we do?


whats happening is, one group is standing on their side of the fence, trying force their beliefs on the other group.

and we're over here going "WTF. that's not right!"

That was not what I got from the article at all, I didn't get anything from the article posted other than the same old tired excuses Republicans spout day in and day out that sound real nice but never seem to play out on the field. My point is we don't need your ****ed up Republican values as a guideline any more than we need a Democrats bleeding heart. There is no REALLY use for either of them and as long as you cling to one or the other you'll be doing more damage than good in the long run.

 

[ndcent]

For the same reasons you say BigNuge's ideas won't work. People only work together with someone else to the extent and up to the point to where they receive benefit as well.

So if you're conceding hope is hope is lost and this discussion is worthless, then why exactly are you "sniping comments from the sidelines" as you say?

 

[RunninInGA]

So if you're conceding hope is hope is lost and this discussion is worthless, then why exactly are you "sniping comments from the sidelines" as you say?

Redirect.....BigNuge was right. There's no productive debate to be had when all you enlightened guys want to do is tell us proles we're wrong about everything we hold near and dear. :moping::sadwave:

Haven't lost hope at all by the way - it's actually the contrary as I agree with the copy/paste response you posted yesterday evening from the Gemstone IV forum regarding the "Dear Liberal" response....debating over an internet forum is pointless. Greater results will be obtained in a face to face setting.

 

[samdajellybeenie14]

Brian, I hate to have to do it but you just aren't seeing the whole picture. That Commiefornia air is messing with your head.

Medicaid :You scare me big time with this one. Medicaid is another in a long line of viciously abused and mismanaged programs. You really don't see this??????????? Medicaid Is Failing the People It Is Intended to Help | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News Blog from The Heritage Foundation

VA :We recently lost my grandfather, a Marine who served in Korea. Please do try to tell me how well this POS institution FRAUGHT with cronyism and wasteful spending (and oh yeah, its broke as a joke) serves the Veterans (its only job BTW). I should add that I was an EMT for 6 years right out of High School. Transported many Vets to the VA. What a pitiful sight those places are..... VA backlog fails ailing veterans: Our view

Libraries :I will admit that I do see value in public libraries. But yet again, liberal/Progressive BS has plagued the management of this public institution and rendered it a glutenous pig of expense and waste. Its a friggin building full of books and the GOVERNMENT F$UCKED THAT UP TOO!!!!!!!!!!!! You're right....they must be doing a good job, lets throw healthcare at them :frusty: Letter: Libraries a big waste of money | Opinion | The Advocate ? Baton Rouge, LA

And the crown jewel:
Social Security :I've got 20 years of paying into this system which is going to be broke WELL before I will be using it. This has only been a major problem for the last 20 years, I can see how you wouldn't know about it :doh: Social Security Is Failing Even Faster Than We Thought - DailyFinance

The fact that you even remotely think the government is running these programs effectively and efficiently is scary, please tell me you are joking.

As far as the GI Bill, I have not heard much (or done much research) in terms of this system. If it worked for you then thats great!

Our population has grown so much, and so many have found the loopholes in all of the social programs (Example after example of this abuse is everywhere), as well as the all time high in political corruption, we can NEVER expect the government to do what is in the citizens best interest.

Sure, the poor are in ER's for sprained fingers (and serious injuries). The issue is that Healthcare is not a human right, it is a service that costs money and needs to be paid for. The math that you and every other liberal REFUSE to accept is that for EVERY SINGLE THING someone receives for NOTHING, someone else has had to work for (on top of their own needs).

Obamacare.....let it fly. If it brings us to the brink quicker then all the better. Im sick and tired of kowtowing to this pansy-ass society of leaches, pu$$ies & progressives (just ask me how I feel about schools & the governments intrusion into my life and how I raise my Son). When the government chokes itself out lets see how many useless leaches are sitting with their pockets inside out and hands in the air wondering what to do (FYI, there will be lots of them...) because they have let the government run their lives and taken handout after handout, never learning the value of getting off your ass and standing on their own two feet. Ill be one of the many productive/contributing members of society who has lived a disciplined life, knowing that NOTHING IS FREE (and have been providing for myself and my family WITHOUT government handouts). Work hard for the things you need, and maybe even some of the things you want.

Just try and tell me these "assistance" programs are working when day after day I see EBT cards being used for EVERYTHING they're not supposed to be used for (just ask ANY cashier at a grocery store what they see). All the while yapping on their $200-$400 iPhone, 4 kids 1 year apart in age, covered in tattoos & jewelry, wearing designer (albeight ugly) clothes and accessories. Now lets add healthcare to their portfolio. And while we are at it, lets degrade MY HEALTHCARE/INSURANCE options by penalizing me for having "Cadillac" plan THAT I PAY FOR. Remember me, the productive member of society.......one of the ones FUNDING THIS BULLSHIT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

In closing, I would like to say that I am not this heartless monster. My anger and frustration grow every day, and it is all based on what I see every day. The math is simple, work hard, be a contributing member of society, and you will EARN what you need (and maybe even some things that you want). In the event that you fall on hard times there should be some form of assistance, I do believe in "ASSISTANCE". the minute it is abused you're out, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! In nature (as it is supposed to be in life) you get what you put in. Do a poor job hunting you don't eat, and you die. Do a poor job preparing for a long winter (gathering wood, storing food, building/improving shelter-housing etc) you freeze/starve/die. We have circumvented this system FAR TOO MUCH. Do I think it needs to be quite that brutal, no. But for the most part that is the model that has served nature best. It provides a natural balance of input/output, risk/reward. There are no sure bets, but this is the best system.

The answer is difficult, and most don't want to hear it. Stop rewarding failure, stop rewarding laziness, stop taking the things that the productive people in society have earned and START shutting the leaches off.

Start doing that and watch how much the illegal immigrations slows down....and oh yeah, catch all of them and ship them back home. Every. Single. One. I will GLADLY help pay for that with my tax dollars...... (sorry, off topic I know).

Good solid conservative values built this country.

Liberal/Progressive/Socialist/Communist values have been eating at it, eroding its foundation since the depression. You live in the flagship state of these values BTW.

We have let it creep in far too long and far too much....

Hey, try and get your information from somewhere else. Some place that's not...so damn left or right that you can't read about what's ACTUALLY happening, but rather, you read a completely biased, often times untrue version of the news. Ever heard of a little news site called The Christian Science Monitor? They're just about the most balanced source that I can find.

 

[BigNuge]

I don't have all the answers. I don't even know if it would work but I would like to do away with the parties and have a government that IS of, by, and for the people, democracy should be designed in a way that allows people to realistically engage in it.

Citizens need to participate in democracy by participating in their communities. Politics should not be so much about the actions of a distant government as about things people actually cared about.

If someone had an issue he was concerned about, he would discuss it with other community members and, if they supported his issue, it could be presented to the community as a whole. If the community supported it, the community representative would be responsible for advocating for it at the next level.

And on up the chain, each group responsible for holding the higher group accountable, you would only need about 4 or 5 groups by the time it got to a “federal level”. Communication could flow up and down the hierarchy with ease. Issues that are supported at each level would rise to the top and become policy, while those that are not would stall. It sounds daunting but in reality you are guaranteeing that big business and politicians have no sway. Its about what’s right for the people for the people.

On some level there will always be a "large government" we are a large nation. But there is no need for Republicans or Democrats as they currently exist in my opinion. They do not serve the community you live in, or you, they serve themselves as a name. Do you really think your opinion or "vote" counts in our current system?

Will never work. Your angle is that we would all sit around a fire and sing happy songs together. NOT realistic at all. I too think that the current 2 party system is not working. If anything we need to enhance the viability of additional parties. Additionally, we need to bolster the authority of the states and quit trying to centralize power in Washington. If you're Conservative you can go live in a Conservative state. If you're Liberal, you can go live in a Liberal state. Unfortunately, this system wouldn't work because the Liberal states would run out of $$$ from their welfare policies and would come after the Conservative ones to pay for their welfare system (PS, thats sort of whats happening now, except even the once Conservative states are doing the "me too" and expanding their welfare systems and going after federal dollars to fund them).

BTW, nice touch with the "Bible Thumper" comment. Lets be clear, I'm not bible thumper. I do have a healthy respect for God, and I do pray. But hey, I understand you have to grab onto any tiny ledge you can find. You have to, you clearly do not have enough sense to come up with anything useful!

You have definitely have your face cards showing now. Liberal hypocrite with nothing useful to offer (ANOTHER rank and file Liberal). How about adding something of substance to the conversation other than delusional BS.

Your posts wreak of liberal college indoctrination, are you still in school?

Hey, try and get your information from somewhere else. Some place that's not...so damn left or right that you can't read about what's ACTUALLY happening, but rather, you read a completely biased, often times untrue version of the news. Ever heard of a little news site called The Christian Science Monitor? They're just about the most balanced source that I can find.

Hey, try and do some research before you jump into something.

Do you have any information, or, anything useful to say?

Or did you just want to subscribe for the read?

Yes, I'ver heard of The Christian Science Monitor. Heres the thing, I never use one source for information. When researching information I always look for correlation between different articles, blogs, books etc. If you are using one single source for your information you are likely NOT getting enough information to form a rational/logical/probable opinion. It really hits home when you do the research, then talk to real people in different industries. I'm in outside sales, I talk to blue collar/white collar folks in all of the major industries in New England (Manufacturing/Education/Medical/Pharmaceutical....the list goes on). Research, cross check, discuss with real people, think long and hard about it, with a healthy dose of what is probable/not probable......form opinion/position.

 

[soj1057]

BTW, nice touch with the "Bible Thumper" comment. Lets be clear, I'm not bible thumper. I do have a healthy respect for God, and I do pray.
You have definitely have your face cards showing now. Liberal hypocrite with nothing useful to offer (ANOTHER rank and file Liberal). How about adding something of substance to the conversation other than delusional BS.

Your posts wreak of liberal college indoctrination, are you still in school?

Bible thumper, like I said. Pray for the answers man! Oh wait, Jesus was all about charity….. maybe you are one of those guys that loves the bible when it makes him look good, but doesn’t actually live by its "teachings". You strike me as such.

And what’s hypocritical about what I have said? Because I manage to keep a job, pay my bills, support my family AND am able to give a little to those in need? Shame on me and on others that don’t mind offering a helping hand to people once and a while. Oh and by the way, despite what you believe, you don’t get to tell me what I consider a helping hand. You also don’t get to tell the rest of the country what to do or how to vote. That ship has sailed man. You lost. Suck it up.

 

[soj1057]

Yes, I'ver heard of The Christian Science Monitor. Heres the thing, I never use one source for information that doesn’t tell me what I want to hear, or is not endorsed by my right wing political brethren.

Fixed that for you.

I’ll let it go. I’m done with replying to you man. You say the same things over and over even and resort to name calling and bullying and such when you get angry. It brought me down to your level for a minute, I apologize for that. Have a good day man.

 

[nevada]

Bible thumper, like I said. Pray for the answers man! Oh wait, Jesus was all about charity….. maybe you are one of those guys that loves the bible when it makes him look good, but doesn’t actually live by its "teachings". You strike me as such.

And what’s hypocritical about what I have said? Because I manage to keep a job, pay my bills, support my family AND am able to give a little to those in need? Shame on me and on others that don’t mind offering a helping hand to people once and a while. Oh and by the way, despite what you believe, you don’t get to tell me what I consider a helping hand. You also don’t get to tell the rest of the country what to do or how to vote. That ship has sailed man. You lost. Suck it up.

oh, the irony!

seriously. BLIND.

 

[soj1057]

oh, the irony!

seriously. BLIND.

You have anything real to add man or are you going to just keep saying I’m blind?

Edit: Ohh I get it, I understand, you are implying that it is ironic because that’s your stance, no one gets to tell you what a helping hand is right? I stand by it. If I want to offer aid, I will, YOU or anyone else for that matter can't tell me that’s not fair because YOU don't agree, that was my point. As a member of the voting public I choose to take what I get when I vote (read that again, I don't expect anything from either party OR my vote, because its not about US anymore its about the pissing match that ensues.) I’m not going to sit here and cry like most of you about how unfair it is, it IS this way because people like Republicans and Democrats together have made it as such. when I feel bad enough about it, I’ll do something about it, like move. But you and your crew can keep calling people who don't agree with you names and maybe something will change.

If you think I am "blind" then so be it, at least I don't come off as a spoiled kid who didn’t get the present he demanded for his birthday.

 

[RunninInGA]

It brought me down to your level for a minute,

:hello:Why can't you take responsibility for your own actions - BigNuge (or anyone else) didn't force you do the things you're apologizing for, but you've seen to it that he gets the blame - rather, that you shove the responsibility off to someone else? Bet you'd rather have someone else pay for your healthcare too, wouldn't you? Why stop there?

I'm seeing comparisons in your actions and that of your political party.

at least I don't come off as a spoiled kid who didn’t get the present he demanded for his birthday.

Don't be so sure, chief.

 

[nevada]

You have anything real to add man or are you going to just keep saying I’m blind?

Edit: Ohh I get it, I understand, you are implying that it is ironic because that’s your stance, no one gets to tell you what a helping hand is right? I stand by it. If I want to offer aid, I will, YOU or anyone else for that matter can't tell me that’s not fair because YOU don't agree, that was my point. As a member of the voting public I choose to take what I get when I vote (read that again, I don't expect anything from either party OR my vote, because its not about US anymore its about the pissing match that ensues.) I’m not going to sit here and cry like most of you about how unfair it is, it IS this way because people like Republicans and Democrats together have made it as such. when I feel bad enough about it, I’ll do something about it, like move. But you and your crew can keep calling people who don't agree with you names and maybe something will change.

If you think I am "blind" then so be it, at least I don't come off as a spoiled kid who didn’t get the present he demanded for his birthday.

give to whoever and whenever you want. we don't give a shit. the problem is we don't want to be FORCED to do the same. THAT is the irony. do not remove that CHOICE from us.

who said I didn't agree with it?

you obviously didn't read the article I posted above, OR you're intentionally ignorant, as I said before.

what names have I called you OR anyone?



nice edit. again, ironic. *I* haven't asked for ANYTHING.

 

[soj1057]

:hello:Why can't you take responsibility for your own actions - BigNuge (or anyone else) didn't force you do the things you're apologizing for, but you've seen to it that he gets the blame - rather, that you shove the responsibility off to someone else? Bet you'd rather have someone else pay for your healthcare too, wouldn't you? Why stop there?

I'm seeing comparisons in your actions and that of your political party.





Don't be so sure, chief.

You like to talk a lot about trolls, but I’m starting to see what you are all about. Are you a moderator? You spend a lot of your time not actually arguing points, but going after specific people within threads, it’s a little odd.

I did take responsibility for acting like an idiot, you didn’t quote that part though, it didn’t suit your snipe. I don't blame him, you cannot blame a child for an adult’s behavior, we are supposed to know better right? And I need not "see to it that he gets all the blame" he has done an admirable job of looking foolish on his own.

I pay for my own health care, it just increased this year too, but that’s ok, I can manage, I won't drown in my tears like BigNuge, you and Nevada... when the bill comes for the Armageddon that you guys paint "obamacare" to be, Ill manage then too. That’s what grownups do, they don’t sit and cry about how unfair it is that they have to pay more money (when the majority of the country want’s it too) I realize that living in the most slothful greedy country in the world has its drawbacks, you poor people and the horrible plight you must be facing.

Please oh wise one, tell me which political party I affiliate with? You clearly have not read any of my posts... were you too busy taking pot shots at others to actually read what they are writing?

 

[ndcent]

Person A: everything you say is invalid because you're a rank and file libtard Obama lover.

Person B: everything you say is invalid because you're an inbred bible thumping redneck.

I think this thread has run its course.

Time for a beer...ooo, redirect!

 

[soj1057]

give to whoever and whenever you want. we don't give a shit. the problem is we don't want to be FORCED to do the same. THAT is the irony. do not remove that CHOICE from us.

who said I didn't agree with it?

you obviously didn't read the article I posted above, OR you're intentionally ignorant, as I said before.

what names have I called you OR anyone?



nice edit. again, ironic. *I* haven't asked for ANYTHING.

You have called me ignorant and blind at least twice now, as far as calling names...

At any rate, like I told BigNuge, suck it up and quit crying, or move, or vote better. I don't really know what to tell you. You guys can't win as long as you cling to your beloved party. In a few years the Republicans will likely be at the helm (or not in light of recent events) and we will have a whole other demon to vilify. Will you scream as loud when the Republicans step on the Democrats "rights" ? I doubt it. Keep hope alive man.

 

[soj1057]

Person A: everything you say is invalid because you're a rank and file libtard Obama lover.

Person B: everything you say is invalid because you're an inbred bible thumping redneck.

I think this thread has run its course.

Time for a beer...ooo, redirect!

You are right.

 

[nevada]

You have called me ignorant and blind at least twice now, as far as calling names...

At any rate, like I told BigNuge, suck it up and quit crying, or move, or vote better. I don't really know what to tell you. You guys can't win as long as you cling to your beloved party. In a few years the Republicans will likely be at the helm (or not in light of recent events) and we will have a whole other demon to vilify. Will you scream as loud when the Republicans step on the Democrats "rights" ? I doubt it. Keep hope alive man.

hahaha. being ignorant is an action.

who is crying here?

you're doing pretty good with the personal insults yourself.

 

[samdajellybeenie14]

ndcent is right. Like it or not, we are different people with different views; however, the things we can agree on (for the most part at least) are 4runners. So...how are everyone's builds coming along? I'm a 2wd, the tallest "mountain" is 530ft, I live 10 ft. below sea level, the closest forest is a swamp, and it never snows. I go to music school in Baltimore for but from what I've heard, we're so close to the water so it never really snows a lot. I thought living here was going to be the perfect excuse to finally get a 4wd...oh well.