Obama: US has always paid it's bills

Its funny to me that you chose to focus on my comments, and not even bring up those of the opposing sides....but then that would be fair and you wouldn’t be able to focus on a "liberal" and the "tactics I resort to". Again, I stand by what I said.

You stand by what you said?

You stand by NOTHING. Judging by your quick draw use of "Bully" as well as other progressive candy ass social sensitivity bullshit buzzwords I'd say its from a bunch of years as the butt of some HS tough guys.

If you could believe it I was pushed around in HS from time to time too, took some lumps as well. Here is the difference, I DID stand up for what was right, I did stand up for what I said. This brand of mouthy childish crap is ALL YOU HAVE. Nothing more. Sad really, I really am starting to feel bad for you.

I'm not very well versed in Hinduism or Buddhism but there is something to Karma.

Or, as I prefer to use, You reap what you sow.

To expand on that and bring up something I previously mentioned, Obama is very moderate, but conservatives absolutely refuse to acknowledge that because it hurts their buzzword arguments. (Talk about "indoctrination.")

I mean the guy is terrorizing innocent women and children in Afghanistan with drones on the regular. Doesn't that very much align with the caveman chest pounding fringe right? America! Kill the brown forigners!!

Dead wrong, Obama is a moderate :crazy: Up is down, black is white. What will you come up with next......

The name calling directed at other board members is lame, no matter what side of an argument someone is on.

You know who you are dealing with right??
 
Breaking down every fiscal discussion to "the Military gets all the money" and "Conservatives are complaining about helping the sick" is not accurate/it is severely biased/and clearly shows your strong left views.


.

The US leads the world in amount of money spent on defense

and what about the corporate freeloaders which is where more welfare money goes to than poverty

Obama has actually made it harder to receive government benefits, contrary to popular belief,
i have family and friends who recieve benefits, who either got them cut down or cut completely.
 
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Dead wrong, Obama is a moderate Up is down, black is white. What will you come up with next.....

Well he is certainly pretty good at continuing GW-Bush's policies.
* deportations of illegal immigrants - up higher than ever
* military spending - up, up, up
* support for charter schools - more than support than even GW-B gave
* foreign wars - the list keeps on growing
* domestic secrecy and spying - NSA & CIA operations on US soil are stronger than ever
* drone strikes on foreign lands - full speed ahead


But I'm not surprised that many in this thread cannot tell the difference between a liberal, a centrist / moderate and a conservative.

Just a few days ago when I asked "who do you think of as true conservatives" the reply I got back included Harry S Truman. And the guy who named HST claimed to have a minored in Political Science in college. :doh:
 
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and what about the corporate freeloaders which is where more welfare money goes to than poverty

Very good question. I do understand the financial aspect makes many things possible whereas they might not be otherwise. Many would argue that without such subsidies, the costs would surely be passed to the consumer thereby shifting the burden further down the line or it just might not make some technologies available in general.

I read something within the past couple days that suggested the difference between the two for one particular state, can't remember which, was by a factor of well above 20 times.
 
Very good question. I do understand the financial aspect makes many things possible whereas they might not be otherwise. Many would argue that without such subsidies, the costs would surely be passed to the consumer thereby shifting the burden further down the line or it just might not make some technologies available in general.

I read something within the past couple days that suggested the difference between the two for one particular state, can't remember which, was by a factor of well above 20 times.
huh? government subsidies ARE paid by the consumer, its just in the form of taxes.
 
3 years and this is the best that can be done?

cnn-sebelius.jpg
 
Well he is certainly pretty good at continuing GW-Bush's policies.
* deportations of illegal immigrants - up higher than ever
* military spending - up, up, up
* support for charter schools - more than support than even GW-B gave
* foreign wars - the list keeps on growing
* domestic secrecy and spying - NSA & CIA operations on US soil are stronger than ever
* drone strikes on foreign lands - full speed ahead


But I'm not surprised that many in this thread cannot tell the difference between a liberal, a centrist / moderate and a conservative.

Just a few days ago when I asked "who do you think of as true conservatives" the reply I got back included Harry S Truman. And the guy who named HST claimed to have a minored in Political Science in college. :doh:

I think it is a case of "going with the flow" on everything he doesn't see as a priority. This is one area that does make a difference as to what type of person is on office......what policies will they really put pressure on, and what ones will they blindly let continue on....

That's why I'm surprised Obamas following hasn't cracked more than it has. However, with the absolute train wreck that Obamacare is already turning out to be his followers are slipping off the wagon. I expect some big news event to happen any time now to pull attention away from this disaster......and the sheep will follow.

Just sad.

And when can we stop hearing about GW?? Friggin guy has been out of office for almost 6 years....

Obamas legacy: It's not my fault, GW did it.

Again, sad...
 
I think it is a case of "going with the flow" on everything he doesn't see as a priority. This is one area that does make a difference as to what type of person is on office......what policies will they really put pressure on, and what ones will they blindly let continue on....

That's why I'm surprised Obamas following hasn't cracked more than it has. However, with the absolute train wreck that Obamacare is already turning out to be his followers are slipping off the wagon. I expect some big news event to happen any time now to pull attention away from this disaster......and the sheep will follow.

Just sad.

And when can we stop hearing about GW?? Friggin guy has been out of office for almost 6 years....

Obamas legacy: It's not my fault, GW did it.

Again, sad...

Are you proposing some national news story will intentionally break as to "cover up the ACA website failures"...like what exactly, a school shooting perhaps? The most recent a week ago in Nevada didn't.

Just how paranoid are you exactly?

Side note: I find people who use the term "sheep" are some of the most herded out there.
 
Well he is certainly pretty good at continuing GW-Bush's policies.
* deportations of illegal immigrants - up higher than ever
* military spending - up, up, up
* support for charter schools - more than support than even GW-B gave
* foreign wars - the list keeps on growing
* domestic secrecy and spying - NSA & CIA operations on US soil are stronger than ever
* drone strikes on foreign lands - full speed ahead

Nice.

But don't forget the "Obama phones" that every Mt Dew chugging yokel love to stammer on about. A program actually started in 2008 in the GW Bush administration and continues with the current.
 
Are you proposing some national news story will intentionally break as to "cover up the ACA website failures"...like what exactly, a school shooting perhaps? The most recent a week ago in Nevada didn't.

Just how paranoid are you exactly?

Side note: I find people who use the term "sheep" are some of the most herded out there.

Oh sure, it will be a real story, and a real tragedy. The idiotic part is that coverage/attention will take heat off of this very important issue.

The ugly reality of the Nevada shooting is that it didn't touch the super sensitive triggers we see today, thus didn't get the pull it would have otherwise.

The heat needs to stay on this no matter what happens elsewhere.

Paranoid?? Trust me, I couldn't care less if the SHTF tomorrow. I just want to future to look better, not worse.
 
Democrats are brilliant. When Obamacare (or ACA as it has been called once the shit has hit the fan) failed, the Congressional Dems had a secret meeting with HHS, with no Republicans. That meeting was to unify all Dems with the same lie: Obamacare and the website has "glitches" but it is a good product and if it doesn't work, it's because of Republican "sabotage."

You've heard this when they were grilling Libelius, every Republican wanted to know how many people enrolled, sources say it's less than 10 in the first few days, or how people can't keep their plans (because many of the Gov't approved plans include expensive features like keeping kids on until 26, fertility treatments, kids' dental--something a healthy, single 25 year old male wouldn't NEED)... the Democrats cried out how the evil republicans are sabotaging the plan, keeping special needs kids, poor people with pre-existing conditions, single mothers from getting "affordable" health care. The Politbureau left wing media then went further and compared this to racism. They also didn't mention how this "affordable" health care for a small percentage of uninsured Americans will be subsidized by the rest of us who already had health insurance we liked with increasing premiums.

It's a done deal. Obama lied about the ACA. He lied about people being able to keep their coverage. Democrats shoved this down America's throat. But it doesn't matter, the Democrats are brilliant at propaganda and political maneuvering. Obamacare is "the law of the land" (strangely Obama keeps trying to bypass the "law of the land" Bill of Rights, especially 2A) and you can't repeal or get rid of it, strangely the Constitution disagrees with this Constitutional scholar. Opposition to Obamacare is not wanting to pay your "fair share" it means you don't want poor people to have health insurance. And if Republicans want to pile on the blame, they get blamed with sabotaging the ACA.

It's brilliant how Democrats own a serious failure and will blame it on Republicans in 2014... and win. But we will all lose as our premiums skyrocket and the quality of health care will decline as increasing pressures and decreasing reimbursements get shoved upon doctors. Employers will push more workers to less than 30 hours, fire workers to keep under the magic number of 50 or just freeze hiring, insurance companies with decent plans will drop more and more since now the government dictates what you "need" on a health plan, even if you don't have kids, are single, or are past your childbearing age.

All this costs lots of money. You can have it good or cheap. There are better ways to get those without health care access to good health care without destroying the quality of health care for everyone else. If the target goal is a Single Payer system, as we are all afraid it is, then everyone really loses. The Government already pays pennies on the dollar for Medicare/Medicaid, imagine how that will deincentivise quality care for the entire nation.
 
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Democrats are brilliant. When Obamacare (or ACA as it has been called once the shit has hit the fan) failed, the Congressional Dems had a secret meeting with HHS, with no Republicans. That meeting was to unify all Dems with the same lie: Obamacare and the website has "glitches" but it is a good product and if it doesn't work, it's because of Republican "sabotage."

You've heard this when they were grilling Libelius, every Republican wanted to know how many people enrolled, sources say it's less than 10 in the first few days, or how people can't keep their plans (because many of the Gov't approved plans include expensive features like keeping kids on until 26, fertility treatments, kids' dental--something a healthy, single 25 year old male wouldn't NEED)... the Democrats cried out how the evil republicans are sabotaging the plan, keeping special needs kids, poor people with pre-existing conditions, single mothers from getting "affordable" health care. The Politbureau left wing media then went further and compared this to racism. They also didn't mention how this "affordable" health care for a small percentage of uninsured Americans will be subsidized by the rest of us who already had health insurance we liked with increasing premiums.

It's a done deal. Obama lied about the ACA. He lied about people being able to keep their coverage. Democrats shoved this down America's throat. But it doesn't matter, the Democrats are brilliant at propaganda and political maneuvering. Obamacare is "the law of the land" (strangely Obama keeps trying to bypass the "law of the land" Bill of Rights, especially 2A) and you can't repeal or get rid of it, strangely the Constitution disagrees with this Constitutional scholar. Opposition to Obamacare is not wanting to pay your "fair share" it means you don't want poor people to have health insurance. And if Republicans want to pile on the blame, they get blamed with sabotaging the ACA.

It's brilliant how Democrats own a serious failure and will blame it on Republicans in 2014... and win. But we will all lose as our premiums skyrocket and the quality of health care will decline as increasing pressures and decreasing reimbursements get shoved upon doctors. Employers will push more workers to less than 30 hours, fire workers to keep under the magic number of 50 or just freeze hiring, insurance companies with decent plans will drop more and more since now the government dictates what you "need" on a health plan, even if you don't have kids, are single, or are past your childbearing age.

All this costs lots of money. You can have it good or cheap. There are better ways to get those without health care access to good health care without destroying the quality of health care for everyone else. If the target goal is a Single Payer system, as we are all afraid it is, then everyone really loses. The Government already pays pennies on the dollar for Medicare/Medicaid, imagine how that will deincentivise quality care for the entire nation.

Disgusting, but true. Doctors that are even remotely close to retirement age are bailing out big time. Young doctors are pissed that their futures are now dictated by the government.

The BS is getting so deep other have no other option than to lie with him......

http://youtu.be/wfl55GgHr5E

Keep in mind they spent over $600,000,000.00 to develop the webiste that less than 10 folks used to sign up........sure, all that $$ went to the web sight.......oops, my conspiracy theorist side is showing again :spy:

This is certainly the socialist agenda in full motion. Not hard to see once you do all of the other math...

1, Take control of healthcare (well on its way if we keep putting up with it).
2, Get more and more people dependent on the government (i.e. Welfare/Stamps/EBT etc.).
3, Take guns away.

Gee, doesn't that list seem awfully familiar......but I digress, Im just a conspiracy theorist. ;):
 
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To provide some balance here......I work for a Fortune 500 firm. 10k+ employees. Same insurance options. Same deductibles. Same out of pocket. Same doctors. Same coverage. Premium is up about $300 per family annually. Pretty much the same as every year. No complaints.

Be careful when you use "every" and "all" and make gross generalizations. EMPLOYERS who are cutting, reducing, or otherwise "putting it to" their employees are far more likely to be doing so because they themselves are poor leaders who are not good at what they do, don't have a clue how to run their companies strategically, have no foresight into their industries and markets, have no agility and nimbleness, and made horrific financial decisions, etc. etc, etc. They now have a nice convenient excuse for covering up for their own gross failures as business people and "stiff" their employees and blaming Obamacare while they lose their grasp on the many, many more impactful factors that influence their employees healthcare options that they, and only they, have complete control over.

You people make "employers" sound like perfectly run slices of utopia and the healthcare options and costs they pass on to their employees are dominantly determined by the new law. Impact? Yes, Somewhat. But not anywhere near the driving factor you make it out to be.
 
To provide some balance here......I work for a Fortune 500 firm. 10k+ employees. Same insurance options. Same deductibles. Same out of pocket. Same doctors. Same coverage. Premium is up about $300 per family annually. Pretty much the same as every year. No complaints.

Be careful when you use "every" and "all" and make gross generalizations. EMPLOYERS who are cutting, reducing, or otherwise "putting it to" their employees are far more likely to be doing so because they themselves are poor leaders who are not good at what they do, don't have a clue how to run their companies strategically, have no foresight into their industries and markets, have no agility and nimbleness, and made horrific financial decisions, etc. etc, etc. They now have a nice convenient excuse for covering up for their own gross failures as business people and "stiff" their employees and blaming Obamacare while they lose their grasp on the many, many more impactful factors that influence their employees healthcare options that they, and only they, have complete control over.

You people make "employers" sound like perfectly run slices of utopia and the healthcare options and costs they pass on to their employees are dominantly determined by the new law. Impact? Yes, Somewhat. But not anywhere near the driving factor you make it out to be.

Where do "you people" get this stuff?

And you make this legislation sound like a benign issue that doesn't have far-reaching affects on the populace. My eyes are seeing it much differently than yours.
 
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To provide some balance here......I work for a Fortune 500 firm. 10k+ employees. Same insurance options. Same deductibles. Same out of pocket. Same doctors. Same coverage. Premium is up about $300 per family annually. Pretty much the same as every year. No complaints.

Be careful when you use "every" and "all" and make gross generalizations. EMPLOYERS who are cutting, reducing, or otherwise "putting it to" their employees are far more likely to be doing so because they themselves are poor leaders who are not good at what they do, don't have a clue how to run their companies strategically, have no foresight into their industries and markets, have no agility and nimbleness, and made horrific financial decisions, etc. etc, etc. They now have a nice convenient excuse for covering up for their own gross failures as business people and "stiff" their employees and blaming Obamacare while they lose their grasp on the many, many more impactful factors that influence their employees healthcare options that they, and only they, have complete control over.

You people make "employers" sound like perfectly run slices of utopia and the healthcare options and costs they pass on to their employees are dominantly determined by the new law. Impact? Yes, Somewhat. But not anywhere near the driving factor you make it out to be.

With all due respect, being an employee, is far different from being an employer.

Unless you have run a successful business in todays economic climate, you really have no idea of the very tough decisions facing employers.

"Nimbleness" and "agility", only go so far. Most businesses that are still operating today, are all "nimbled" out.

Here's a reality check: Most small businesses (the types of places most Americans are employed at) today operate on razor-thin margins. New Government regulations that cut into the bottom line, and also don't increase the businesses market share, means those already razor thin margins will be reduced even more.

I could give you real life examples of how this is playing out, complete with several business names, and the number of employees at each negatively affected by this new regulation. But some that don't like reality would call it "anecdotal".

Eventually people will have to open their eyes. Hopefully it won't be too late.
 
To provide some balance here......I work for a Fortune 500 firm. 10k+ employees. Same insurance options. Same deductibles. Same out of pocket. Same doctors. Same coverage. Premium is up about $300 per family annually. Pretty much the same as every year. No complaints.

Be careful when you use "every" and "all" and make gross generalizations. EMPLOYERS who are cutting, reducing, or otherwise "putting it to" their employees are far more likely to be doing so because they themselves are poor leaders who are not good at what they do, don't have a clue how to run their companies strategically, have no foresight into their industries and markets, have no agility and nimbleness, and made horrific financial decisions, etc. etc, etc. They now have a nice convenient excuse for covering up for their own gross failures as business people and "stiff" their employees and blaming Obamacare while they lose their grasp on the many, many more impactful factors that influence their employees healthcare options that they, and only they, have complete control over.

You people make "employers" sound like perfectly run slices of utopia and the healthcare options and costs they pass on to their employees are dominantly determined by the new law. Impact? Yes, Somewhat. But not anywhere near the driving factor you make it out to be.

My previous employer kept raising their premiums, over 25% every year, then discontinued their Humana plans in place of a terrible BCBS plan with sky high deductibles (up to 20% of hospital costs).

The problem is that you live in a fantasy world. Your employer is absorbing the rate increases that have been brought on by ACA, for now, since if you're at a "Fortune 500" company, they want to offer their employees good benefits and retain them. Newsflash, most of us don't work for Fortune 500 companies where our employers can shuffle around money to keep our health plans affordable, many of us have to weigh hiring people or insuring the ones we have--or dialing the part timers to less than 30 hours.

You will be rewarded for your partisan loyalty when your "Fortune 500" company starts to get taxed heavily on the Cadillac plans they're providing to their employees to subsidize the insurance exchanges and will either pass the costs to you by increasing your premiums, or cutting other benefits (like raises), or worse telling you to log on to an exchange and "shop around."

Those who work for large entities that have big contracts with insurance companies are more insulated, for now, but as the increasing premium costs start to resonate through the accounting offices at your company, I'm sure you'll be able to find affordable plans at your local state exchange--or just take a huge pay cut so that you can qualify for subsidies.

What "you people" (to use your own words) don't understand is that you can't generate money out of nothing. You can't provide more comprehensive insurance plans to more people at lesser (subsidized) costs and not have it result in increased costs.

It's a TAX, a tax on those who like their plans and can afford them, it's a tax on hospitals and doctors, a tax on employers who can't afford to insure everyone... I love how liberals think money to fund expensive things like health care comes out of thin air.
 
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Disgusting, but true. Doctors that are even remotely close to retirement age are bailing out big time. Young doctors are pissed that their futures are now dictated by the government.

The BS is getting so deep other have no other option than to lie with him......

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." - Barack Obama - YouTube

Keep in mind they spent over $600,000,000.00 to develop the webiste that less than 10 folks used to sign up........sure, all that $$ went to the web sight.......oops, my conspiracy theorist side is showing again :spy:

This is certainly the socialist agenda in full motion. Not hard to see once you do all of the other math...

1, Take control of healthcare (well on its way if we keep putting up with it).
2, Get more and more people dependent on the government (i.e. Welfare/Stamps/EBT etc.).
3, Take guns away.

Gee, doesn't that list seem awfully familiar......but I digress, Im just a conspiracy theorist. ;):

It's funny you should mention Doctors retiring early. My own Dr. that I've had for years, is almost 60. He just informed his patients that he is retiring. I asked him why, and he said he had planned to work at least until 70, but the added hassles, and reduced compensation from insurance under this new plan, just made it not worth it in his eyes.

So that's one very experienced Dr. that will no longer be available. More experienced people are a good thing in any profession. Healthcare arguably being the area where you want experience most.
 
With all due respect, being an employee, is far different from being an employer.

Unless you have run a successful business in todays economic climate, you really have no idea of the very tough decisions facing employers.

"Nimbleness" and "agility", only go so far. Most businesses that are still operating today, are all "nimbled" out.

Here's a reality check: Most small businesses (the types of places most Americans are employed at) today operate on razor-thin margins. New Government regulations that cut into the bottom line, and also don't increase the businesses market share, means those already razor thin margins will be reduced even more.

I could give you real life examples of how this is playing out, complete with several business names, and the number of employees at each negatively affected by this new regulation. But some that don't like reality would call it "anecdotal".

Eventually people will have to open their eyes. Hopefully it won't be too late.

Yes, running a small business is tough, thin margins, etc. ALWAYS HAS BEEN. They know this before they get in. They know there will be factors (gov't reg among them) that will be beyond their control. Many many many factors determine success. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Every business you can name will have a "story" and endless influences that you are not aware of.
 
My previous employer kept raising their premiums, over 25% every year, then discontinued their Humana plans in place of a terrible BCBS plan with sky high deductibles (up to 20% of hospital costs).

The problem is that you live in a fantasy world. Your employer is absorbing the rate increases that have been brought on by ACA, for now, since if you're at a "Fortune 500" company, they want to offer their employees good benefits and retain them. Newsflash, most of us don't work for Fortune 500 companies where our employers can shuffle around money to keep our health plans affordable, many of us have to weigh hiring people or insuring the ones we have--or dialing the part timers to less than 30 hours.

You will be rewarded for your partisan loyalty when your "Fortune 500" company starts to get taxed heavily on the Cadillac plans they're providing to their employees to subsidize the insurance exchanges and will either pass the costs to you by increasing your premiums, or cutting other benefits (like raises), or worse telling you to log on to an exchange and "shop around."

Those who work for large entities that have big contracts with insurance companies are more insulated, for now, but as the increasing premium costs start to resonate through the accounting offices at your company, I'm sure you'll be able to find affordable plans at your local state exchange--or just take a huge pay cut so that you can qualify for subsidies.

What "you people" (to use your own words) don't understand is that you can't generate money out of nothing. You can't provide more comprehensive insurance plans to more people at lesser (subsidized) costs and not have it result in increased costs.

It's a TAX, a tax on those who like their plans and can afford them, it's a tax on hospitals and doctors, a tax on employers who can't afford to insure everyone... I love how liberals think money to fund expensive things like health care comes out of thin air.

And ALL of us have the freedom to change our personal situations every day of our lives. I've heard "personal accountability" here countless times. Put it to action if you feel short changed, neglected, abused. The business world is changing dramatically - IT'S CONSOLIDATING. If you don't change with it and understand the full breadth of your own capabilities, you are road kill. If you are (for example) an insurance claims adjuster today, and lose your job, and only look for a related position you are a fool.

Parties, gov't - it's all crap - like you said, insulate yourself from it but in this case "personally".....and make it a non-factor.

With love,

Tony Robbins
 

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