JSparky
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Can a Raptor be had without a dealer markup? I haven't looked much but all the ones around here run for 90-100k.
Official 4Runner VS Raptor - Apples VS Oranges Thread
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Can a Raptor be had without a dealer markup? I haven't looked much but all the ones around here run for 90-100k.
honda250xtitan
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Gotta love the brand humpers. That "fitting 285's" comment killed me lmfao. Gettem [MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION]
LawnDart
Senior Member
The initial demand is going down, so in a few months? yeah. A buddy got one for 4K over MSRP and the dealer shipped the truck from Arkansas to his door in Oregon.
Lets be totally honest, we're talking about an SUV vs a Truck. The two are apples and oranges. But they both represent trends of their respective companies. When I got my 4Runner I thought the TRD Pro represented Toyota's newfound interest in more aggressive vehicles. And ultimately what we got in the form of the Tacoma is a trend towards more gutless, conservative vehicles. You can't thrash your vehicle off road if it can't make power in the straightaways!
But more importantly, Toyota doesn't care about the offroad market in america, They just truly do not. For the vast majority of folks, going on county roads that a stock jeep could do equals offroading *cough* FJ Summit *cough* but it ignores an enthusiast market that truly represents the brand.
I commend Ford for auguring out of destruction in 2008, not taking bailout money, and actually making good vehicles again by using their EU designers to make some goddamn amazing vehicles. Much of the badmouthing of ford comes from people who don't take into consideration post-2008 vehicles. Every company has lemons, I know folks still fighting with Toyota to get their frames replaced.
Where I give ford a lot of credit is that they're making vehicles that by all accounts shouldn't exist. 450hp, Baja inspired, trucks with more features than an LC200? Goddamn, if you can't appreciate that then you're dumb.
Is it the right vehicle for most of us? nah, probably not. But again, most of us here don't overland, don't rock crawl, etc. This forum is the collection of the lunatic fringe for sure. Most overland builds are ridiculous, mine included, because (and here's where I'll shit in the punch bowl) Overlanding in america is horseshit. You are litterally playing dress up thinking that there's anywhere in america where an overland vehicle like the kind needed for Australia is applicable in the states. We have an amazing thing called ROADS here that negate the concept of being truly self sufficient in the middle of nowhere.
90 percent of where I go, an F350 can go, and that's why a Raptor appeals to me. If I lived in the NE where terrain was much tighter, the raptor would NOT appeal to me.
So much of this comes down to needs/wants. But I guess where the raptor speaks to me is that it's Ford making cool vehicles for the love of cool vehicles, while Toyota just churns out the same boring shit.
In baja I never felt like I didn't have power, I never lagged behind the raptors, it's just that to maintain those speeds I beat the shit out of the truck, a truck that is supremely upgraded but still didn't ride as well as a raptor.
That's my point. We wan circles around the raptors in tight terrain, but then again the Jeeps ran circles around us, every vehicle has their moment to shine.
wfo9
New member
I'm amazed people think everything about the Raptor is awesome.
No doubt it is cool, but nothing spectacular for all uses....
It has some pros.. but it so bad on trails that most people simply won't take them out. It's very heavy. Think the new ones are down to 5,800 or so dry, but loaded up they top over 7k easy and that just sucks.
Different tool for a different jobs.
Still if I wanted a high speed desert rig I would build a full size Chevy. Just because way more performance for so much less money in the end. I can understand the raptor though for turn key buyers.
The three modern OEM trucks that I think are in play for most offroad enthusiast.
4Runner -
JK
Raptor
Tacoma
Colorado zr2
The JK wins hands down for trail use out of the box.
The raptor for speed/towing use...
The 4Runner sits in the swiss army knife role. Not great at anything, but a decent trail rig with some mods and a very comfortable road machine.
The tacoma and Zr2 are sort of like a 4runner but with more truck utility and less car. The zr2 is actually the most capable from the factory of all of them (expect the Rubicon) since it is fully locked from the factory. The diesel option makes it very attractive for overland long range use...
Whatever you do just do it and don't judge so dam much. From those that SAS a 4runner and do Fordyce to those that mall crawl. Whatever meets your needs and puts a a big smile on your face.
No doubt it is cool, but nothing spectacular for all uses....
It has some pros.. but it so bad on trails that most people simply won't take them out. It's very heavy. Think the new ones are down to 5,800 or so dry, but loaded up they top over 7k easy and that just sucks.
Different tool for a different jobs.
Still if I wanted a high speed desert rig I would build a full size Chevy. Just because way more performance for so much less money in the end. I can understand the raptor though for turn key buyers.
The three modern OEM trucks that I think are in play for most offroad enthusiast.
4Runner -
JK
Raptor
Tacoma
Colorado zr2
The JK wins hands down for trail use out of the box.
The raptor for speed/towing use...
The 4Runner sits in the swiss army knife role. Not great at anything, but a decent trail rig with some mods and a very comfortable road machine.
The tacoma and Zr2 are sort of like a 4runner but with more truck utility and less car. The zr2 is actually the most capable from the factory of all of them (expect the Rubicon) since it is fully locked from the factory. The diesel option makes it very attractive for overland long range use...
Whatever you do just do it and don't judge so dam much. From those that SAS a 4runner and do Fordyce to those that mall crawl. Whatever meets your needs and puts a a big smile on your face.
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Tec548
New member
I have both a 13' Raptor and a 15' T4R. I can tell you that they are two completely different animals in both purpose and price.
I have almost $90k in my Raptor and run it on high speed off road runs often. I run with the Raptor groups and other events. This truck is great for almost everything. I would not suggest deep mud as it tends to put the mud on top of the truck and sink to the frame. Sand, rocks, high speed desert is just amazing. Buy front axles by the gross as you will break them everytime (almost)! It's almost as fun as my RZR 1000.
I have only $30k in my T4R and it goes just about anywhere I want to go. The T4R seems almost indestructible. I have broken very few parts in comparison to the SVT. It can't run down the high way as fast but is much more comfortable to the ears and I can even pass up a gas station or two.
Really can't compare the two, they both are great and fun to drive. Just depending on what is planned for the weekend decides which one to take out.
Joel
I have almost $90k in my Raptor and run it on high speed off road runs often. I run with the Raptor groups and other events. This truck is great for almost everything. I would not suggest deep mud as it tends to put the mud on top of the truck and sink to the frame. Sand, rocks, high speed desert is just amazing. Buy front axles by the gross as you will break them everytime (almost)! It's almost as fun as my RZR 1000.
I have only $30k in my T4R and it goes just about anywhere I want to go. The T4R seems almost indestructible. I have broken very few parts in comparison to the SVT. It can't run down the high way as fast but is much more comfortable to the ears and I can even pass up a gas station or two.
Really can't compare the two, they both are great and fun to drive. Just depending on what is planned for the weekend decides which one to take out.
Joel
FlightMedic303
New member
Why hasn't anyone mentioned the comparison of a Tundra vs Raptor? I don't know enough about either, but wouldn't it at least make sense as they're relatively the same class? I have seen a couple badass Tundras that had awesome desert suspension and could haul through the desert...
FWIW - I would own the shit out of a Raptor!
FWIW - I would own the shit out of a Raptor!
Senorlechero
New member
don't know if you were referring to me or not, but I have no stake in what vehicle you like or don't like, I just find it odd that you seem to be bashing a Toyota on a Toyota forum.
I don't think the 4runner is in the same league as the Raptor, because it's not. Not only in performance but in price as well.
What do you mean by more modern?
Of course you do what you want, I don't care either way.
My only skin in this is your response to me posting the 4Runner that ran the Baja 1000.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qb1FEZpirZA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Maybe Ivan doesn't know what he's talking about:noidea:
Senorlechero
New member
The TRD Tundra looks and performs like a tortoise compared to a Raptor. Unfortunately.
The TRD Pro Tundra is an appearance package with better than stock suspension.
The Raptor is a complete redesign of the F-150
LawnDart
Senior Member
You can't be that daft that you think that gutting a vehicle, caging it, and completely having Toyota help modify a vehicle counts as the same thing we have, right?
Also in that video the terrain and speeds on display...are minor. We did much faster and much more intense.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Bingo. Even the FX4 isn't the same as a raptor, and can't be made into a raptor.
Part of what's so appealing about a factory tuned and designed vehicle is it rolls off the lot all set up and working in harmony. If Toyota made something that was out and out nuts off road, and cost 50K, I'd be all over that. But they don't, because the bean counters are more concerned with being conservative.
Conservative is boring.
fogcitysurfer
New member
LawnDart
Senior Member
The Bronco project isn't far along, I think it may only exist as a spec sheet if I overheard in Baja correctly.
There MAY be a Raptor Ranger coming too.
Senorlechero
New member
I'm a doctor not a Raptor advocate! :biggrin2:
No, but the same mods could be made to a stock 4runner and achieve very similar results.
The drivetrain in that car is stock, the suspension is in stock form with the only addition being larger shocks.
I was just trying to convince you that the 4runner is still cool :cheers:
the Bronco is NEVER coming back. I've been hearing rumors for probably ten years at this point.
Another pretty obvious distinction is that I don't think they take an F-150 off a boat at the port and turn it into a Raptor. Requires a liiiiiiittle bit more effort at the manufacturing plant.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Lol you mean like a TRD Pro, where they basically angle grind out the fenders a bit, swap wheels, and charge you a lot more for a special color?
fogcitysurfer
New member
The Bronco project isn't far along, I think it may only exist as a spec sheet if I overheard in Baja correctly.
There MAY be a Raptor Ranger coming too.
Its only 2 years away...I may just have to wait and see if they nail it or drop the ball before I trade in my 4runner.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Yes. It has a licensed version of the same system that Land Rover designed that's licensed for use in the LCs and distilled down into the 4Runner and Taco.
This shit can flex more than my long travel. Sigh.
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