One more V6 vs V8 ?

[Kanab]

Only problem is that I'm never wrong

 

[Hitman]

That you can afford the V-8 and chose not to is a luxury not everyone gets. arra was questioning the value of buying a V-8 over a V-6 and my point was simple, evaluate the cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle. If you're unwilling to eat the cost difference, then it is a factor in deciding whether or not to purchase. You were only able to cite towing as a reason to get the V-8 ignoring the differences you seem very willing to point out to me.


If arra could not afford the V8 engine, he surely wouldn't be considering it, would he? Anyone with half a brain can figure that the V8 will cost more to own and maintain. Nobody needs you to tell us that....



I wasn't trying to foist my opinion on you, I was trying to offer food for thought to arra. He seems to be expending an inordinate amount of energy trying to decide whether or not the V-8 is worth the additional cost in any trim or model offered. He is canvassing for opinions from folks by posting on this board...right? Bottom line, my opinion wasn't intended for your consumption.


Intended for my consumption? If you feel the need to chat privately with another member, do it through private messaging or email. If you post something in the forum, you should expect reactions. I had no problem with your opinion until you stated that people buy the V6 because they cannot afford the V8. And no, you didn't use those exact words, but that's how it came across to me.



My point here is that you were not making the same comparison and failed to answer your own question of whether or not you would by a V-6 if the V-8 were priced identically. It's not my make believe world, I was trying to look into yours since you posed the question, since such a scenario would change many buyers decisions. So...would you?



I thought you would be able to figure out that I would still choose the V6... it should have been posed as a rhetorical question. Once again I'll state that money was not a factor in my choice of the V6 over the V8. Satisfied?



So, you could not justify to yourself the cost benefit of owning a V-8 over a V-6? You state "It's less expensive to buy and own."? You're making my point for me.



That may be a consideration for some potential buyers. It wasn't a factor for me personally. Besides, I already explained that there were other reasons for me to choose the V6. Do I have to rehash my opinion on the 2wd mode again??



How am I an elitist if you tell arra the decision is a "no brainer" based solely on towing capacity?

That's not what made you an elitist. I based my opinion on the simple fact that the V6 engine performs as well as the V8 engine with the exception of towing capacity. If he needs to tow heavy loads regularly then the V8 would be the better choice.



I'm not the one who's posing as an elitist by using my Bimmer purchase as an example then trying to justify the cost difference which is about 10 times more than the cost difference between a V-6 and a V-8 in a 4Runner. I didn't even spout off how I could have afforded a V-8 Limited if I had so chosen. It almost makes me think you're regretting not getting the V-8 and use potential loss of resale value between the '04's and the '05's as well as never having owned a 4-banger in your life to justify your V-6 purchase. (Did you buy a "plebeian" 4Runner?) Who's the elitist here?

I used my M3 as an example of how I could justify such a great difference in cost over the 330Ci. As you probably already know, the difference between the two cars is much more than an engine. In the 4Runner, however, the difference between the two vehicles is not much more than the engine alone. They are pretty much identicle otherwise. I have no regrets with my choice of the V6 engine. If I were buying an '05, I might take a harder look at the V8 engine because of the higher HP rating....but I'd most likely still choose the V6 anyway. It will be interesting to see how much better the new V8 makes the 4Runner perform though.

 

[Hitman]

Hitman there is a real good reason to buy the V8 over the V6. The V8 is a proven engine that has been on the market since 1998. It has proven to be very dependable. The 4.0 V6 is a new engine that came out in 2003. If you remember the sludge problems Toyota had with the V6 engine they were using a few years ago it would make me want to go with the proven V8 and I did. It is just the difference between proven and new and the fact that Toyota has had problems in the past with a new design change to a V6 engine. JMHO

Point taken, but if you step back and look at the history of Toyota engines, you'll see that they have an excellent reputation... in fact, probably the best in the world at building well-engineered, long-lasting engines with minimal problems.

With this in mind, I wouldn't have any reservations buying a Toyota vehicle with a newly designed engine... even if it just came out the same year.

 

[Kanab]

Point taken, but if you step back and look at the history of Toyota engines, you'll see that they have an excellent reputation... in fact, probably the best in the world at building well-engineered, long-lasting engines with minimal problems.

With this in mind, I wouldn't have any reservations buying a Toyota vehicle with a newly designed engine... even if it just came out the same year.

You might want to checkout www.bobistheoilguy.com They have a few Toyota V6 4.0 with several used oil analysis and the new V6 looks real good with a lot of different oil's both dino and synthetic. I was just poking sticks at the animals with my sludge post Enjoy your V6 :

 

[jharris2]

Reminds me of "Jane, you incredibly ignorant slut." (Jane Curtain)

Not that anyone is Dan Akroid or Jane Curtain here, it just reminded me of that.

What does this have to do with anything you ask? Nothing.

It was Gilda Radner that used to say that.

 

[MicaBlue03]

Transmission vs engine reliability (& ignorant sluts)

You know, I think it wasn't Gilda, but Akroyd. I thought Jane usually opened up with her side and Dan always began his reply with "Jane, you . . ." Even my mother thought it was hysterical every time!

Anyway, on the subject of reliability I've seen a couple of postings elsewhere by transmission specialists who claimed that new generation auto trannys are so complex and highly stressed that they're at least as likely to cost you repair money as engines. One of these posters said that he'd always choose a new engine with a proven transmission over a proven engine with a new transmission. That happened to be the situation with the 4Runners in 2003 and 2004 model years.

This all would be a bigger question if we weren't talking abut Toyotas. They seem to do both engines and transmissions well right out of the gate, while many other manufacturers never get it right before they bring out their next generation of trouble-prone products. I think we've had enough experience now with the new VVT-i V6 and the new 5 speed truck transmission that we can have some confidence that they'll be good long-term bets. I'll bet the new V8 will be very nearly as reliable as the existing one, despite the VVT-i complexity and higher (I think) compression ratio.

Perhaps the only loss with the new V8 is that it probably won't get a Toyota-supplied/warranteed supercharger due to compatibility issues with the variable intake system. If one wants to have a V8 that really grunts it would be nice to have the instant-response forced induction and low-to-mid range torque boost that superchargers can provide.

It has been said (wish I could find the quote) that people argue the most intensely over the smallest things. We all like and respect 4Runners, so have we been demonstrating the truth of this old quote?

 

[blu4runner97122]

When I first started looking for an SUV to trade my '97 Quest in for I looked at a few key points:


Affordability - I had to make sure I could do a straight trade for the vehicles or choose a vehicle that was worth less than the minivan. Taking out a loan was not an option... since me and the hubby are both in college still.

Automatic Transmission - I was never taught on a manual and I don't know if I have the coordination for it (i know - you're all gonna laugh @ me)

4WD - this was the point of getting an SUV - I was stranded for 8 days in Portland, OR last winter and I refused to be stuck like that again - especially since the hubby and I want kids.

Color - no white - I was looking for black but I got blue instead - its all just a bruise to me...

Reliability - I couldn't just get some Ford POS (sorry my first card was a ford and I'll only go back for one thing - the FREESTYLE and I'll get a new 4Runner first)

Vehicle History - I needed to make sure I was getting a reliable vehicle since I was going used...

For those of you that don't know - I wound up choosing my 1995 SR5 because I was propositioned for my minivan - my uncle's family was expanding beyond use of the 4Runner...

I supposed I could have waited till I got my inheritance to make a choice on a vehicle, but I'm 23 (a meer child) and I have to have instant gratification.. I think I'm gonna put my inheritance in the bank and save up for a current year V8 4Runner... and wait till I'm 25 and had a kid so that my insurance is easier on me.

To be completely honest I was not looking at 4Runners when I was shopping around before my uncle's propositioned - I was raised in a house of Nissans - my mom is on her 3rd Nissan and I am the local guru and knowledge bank when it comes to the history of the Z... Part of me is still craving a Pathfinder.. that was the 4x4 I was looking for... I just tell myself I can drive mom's when I'm down there. When I get my new rig I will probably go with the 4Runner over the Pathfinder anyways - I am totally dissappointed in the new Pathfinders and I HATE the Armada's - and I've never really cared for the Xterra's... P

art of me is considering buying my mom's from her - but I want to go thru a dealer so I could put part down and do large payments to pay it off for a credit boost (I will get one won't I?).. My mom wants to get a TrailBlazer once she gets her 04 Silverado paid off. And I could let her use my 4Runner for the trade and pay her the difference between rigs... but I don't know - If I'm still Pathfinder sick I might buy a 2001-2004 (I'm lost with what year was the new bodystyle) QX4 so that I have a "pathfinder" but with the luxury features....

How many women do you know that can go on and on about SUV's like me?? I know there is my ego showing... sorry guy's...

 

[Iowa4Runner]

Techincally HP does come into play as it is a mathematical function of Torque and RPM:

(Torque x RPM) / 5,252 = Horsepower

No idea where you got the 60mph figure for when HP starts playing a role.

Horsepower plays more of a role at higher RPMS which is what I think maybe you meant??

People in general are sooooooo confused about torque and HP. I get a kick out of people who seem to extract an amazing amount of performance information from just a peak torque quantity. And I'll never forget the guy who told me that to run the best 1/4 mile time, you should shift gears to keep the engine at peak torque RPM. The poor fella must have lost a lot of drag races...

 

[Kanab]

Melissa
I guess if you were my kid you would be either taking my 4runner or the wifes Z. Glad to see a women on the site that is interested in cars/trucks, but I bet you husband might not like it because you will always be taking the best vehicle as your own.

 

[EDGE]

I am totally dissappointed in the new Pathfinders and I HATE the Armada's - and I've never really cared for the Xterra's... P

but I don't know - If I'm still Pathfinder sick I might buy a 2001-2004 (I'm lost with what year was the new bodystyle) QX4 so that I have a "pathfinder" but with the luxury features....

How many women do you know that can go on and on about SUV's like me?? I know there is my ego showing... sorry guy's...

1st of all the new Nissan Trucks Nissan should be ashamed of themselves to even release the Titan/Armada with such low quality, I test drove an Armada and it was horrible, those trucks are way overpriced unless your coming from an Expedition or Tahoe, not worth the money, a test drive is suppost to pull you in and it damn near pushed he away:

Last gen Pathfinders with new bodystyle and the 3.5 was 2001-2004, QX4 was discontinued in 2002 but loaded 03/04 Pathfinders with Platinum Editions was essentially QX4.

The cure for the Pathfinder sickness is called a 4Runner cause once you get a 4th Gen the other stuff is ho hum

 

[TranceKrayz]

i like the way the armada/qx56 looks, but i'd still buy a landcruiser/lx470 over them for toyota quality. EDGE.....you didn't specifically mention what was so bad about the test drive. i'm interested in hearing about it if you don't mind.

 

[EDGE]

I test drove the QX56 awesome ride, smooth, powerful, quiet, perfect engine note, handles really well for it's size, I could go on and on the QX was awesome, then I figure cause everyone says the loaded Armada is the same as the QX so I went and test drove the Armada, why not save 10k but the wind noise, interior rattles, exhaust note was way off not as isolated as in the QX, ride was bumpy as hell, almost lost it when we got back to the dealer, handled like it was a boat, body lean was more obvious, the AC was broken and it had 17 miles on it.

The 2 vehicles even though suppost to be somewhat identical felt completely different, I'd rather go with an Eddie Bauer Expedition with incentives and rebates then an Armada for what they wanted.

I expected more from the Armada but was car sick half way through the drive, I'd buy the QX only with an extended test drive and if I knew none of the current problems would haunt my vehicle but until then in a short time I'll be in either another loaded V8 Limited 4Runner or a GX470

 

[TranceKrayz]

wow......surprising that the two vehicles that are practically the same are so different.

 

[blu4runner97122]

I guess if you were my kid you would be either taking my 4runner or the wifes Z. Glad to see a women on the site that is interested in cars/trucks, but I bet you husband might not like it because you will always be taking the best vehicle as your own.

Well, my hubby had crappy parents so he doesn't have a driver's license yet - so I guess I hold all the cards... and will for a while till after we are out of school and can get him into a proper driving school... (I'm a little nervous about teaching him myself - see, I'm a cradle robber - my hubby is 3 years younger than me..)

btw - my mom's '01 Pathfinder has less than 35K Miles on it..

I think I'm gonna stick with Toyota though. Toyota seems to be sticking with a good track record - I don't know yet if I'm gonna go for a 4Runner or a Tacoma (that is how it is properly spelled - not Techoma like that punk with the stolen 4Runner)....

 

[Thai]

blu4runner97122,

Here's something that no one has mentioned yet...CRASH TEST record. If you check out crash test results of previous Pathfinders, then you will see that they did NOT do well in the off-set front test. The 4runner that you have now did better than your mom's Pathfinder (and QX4). The 4th gen 4runner (current model) is far superior in this aspect to the Pathfinder. (Note: The new Pathfinder is unknown, but will likely do well in these crash tests because these tests have received quite a bit of public attention in the last few years.)

In addition, the current 4runners all have STABILITY CONTROL (VSC), Brake Assist, 4-channel ABS system, and some models have side-curtain airbags. NONE of these can be found in the older Pathfinders (and QX4)! The '04 Pathfinders do have these features (i think), but not the prior years.

I thought that i would mention this because you guys want to have kids and seem to be concern about reliability and safety.

 

[Thai]

Addendum

This thread will point you to the different crash tests:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=283

For specific result from the off-set crash test:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm

For the 1997-2004 Pathfinder off-set crast test result:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97002.htm

Compare that to the 1996-2002 4runner:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96005.htm

(The 3rd gen 4runner got significantly better individual scores.)

For the 4th gen 4runner crash test results:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0309.htm

You can play around the site to see the different results on most SUVs & cars.

Hope this helps.

 

[gogriz91]

If arra could not afford the V8 engine, he surely wouldn't be considering it, would he? Anyone with half a brain can figure that the V8 will cost more to own and maintain. Nobody needs you to tell us that....

My point to arra was to consider not only the additional difference in purchase price, but insurance, maintenance and gas over however long he's going to own the vehicle. If no one needs me to tell them a V-8 is more expensive, then no one needs you to tell them a V-8 is better for towing than a V-6. Wouldn't anyone with "half a brain" be able to figure out a V-8 is better for towing...especially if they could figure out it's more expensive? I don't think arra has half a brain, I think he's trying to make what is for him, a difficult decision.

Intended for my consumption? If you feel the need to chat privately with another member, do it through private messaging or email. If you post something in the forum, you should expect reactions. I had no problem with your opinion until you stated that people buy the V6 because they cannot afford the V8. And no, you didn't use those exact words, but that's how it came across to me.

I never stated people buy the V-6 because they can't afford the V-8. I said arra should consider all of the additional costs beyond the difference in the sticker price before he buys a V-8. You have a perception problem. Did you read the final two sentences in the post? (There were only 3) They explained why I posted the first. You have a perception problem.

I thought you would be able to figure out that I would still choose the V6... it should have been posed as a rhetorical question. Once again I'll state that money was not a factor in my choice of the V6 over the V8. Satisfied?

I never posed the question...therefore I was never dissatisfied. You do normally answer questions posed to you...even if they are your own...right?

That may be a consideration for some potential buyers. It wasn't a factor for me personally. Besides, I already explained that there were other reasons for me to choose the V6. Do I have to rehash my opinion on the 2wd mode again??

Do you see any benefit in belittling other buyers concerns because they aren't your own? Not everyone who walks in to buy a 4Runner has the luxury you have of being able to walk out with a V-8 Limited if they so desire. Not everyone's decision on what to purchase is a "no brainer". God Bless you because you knew what you wanted and could afford it. You can spare us the 2WD mode operating benefits unless you feel overly compelled to do so for your own peace of mind.

That's not what made you an elitist. I based my opinion on the simple fact that the V6 engine performs as well as the V8 engine with the exception of towing capacity. If he needs to tow heavy loads regularly then the V8 would be the better choice.

There are more reasons than towing as to why the V-8 might be a better choice...aren't there? When I see the comparison I see the V-6 as an engine that has to work harder to perform to the level the V-8 would. (No replacement for displacement... remember that one) I see the V-8 as an engine that would be a better choice in terms of longevity because it wouldn't have to work as hard as the V-6. If I only plan on owning the vehicle for 3-4 years, then the V-6 may be a better choice. Personally, I would rather try to sell a V-8 in 10 years than a V-6, but that's just me.

I used my M3 as an example of how I could justify such a great difference in cost over the 330Ci. As you probably already know, the difference between the two cars is much more than an engine. In the 4Runner, however, the difference between the two vehicles is not much more than the engine alone. They are pretty much identicle otherwise. I have no regrets with my choice of the V6 engine. If I were buying an '05, I might take a harder look at the V8 engine because of the higher HP rating....but I'd most likely still choose the V6 anyway. It will be interesting to see how much better the new V8 makes the 4Runner perform though. [/B]

What I find ironic is the guy who can buy any 4Runner he wants thinks the guy who is a little more particular about his engine choice is an elitist. Highlighting your own purchasing decision process for your 4Runner and your Bimmer only makes it more ironic. That's what makes me think you're the guy who is saying to himself, "I coulda had a V-8". I guess we'll just have to believe you when you say you aren't.

 

[sharp4runr]

gogriz91 and hitman, this is for you guys!

 

[Loki]

FYI!!!

I just ate an apple. Yum.

 

[Iowa4Runner]

gogriz91 and hitman, this is for you guys!

I might be curious to know a bit more about this intriguing character who calls himself "Hitman". I'd ask some specific questions, but I probably wouldn't believe the answers he gave, so it would be pointless.