Opinions on Multi-mode & Traction Control?

[artlaugher]

So I'm in the market for a 3rd gen 4Runner. I was sort of leaning towards the 01-02, since the one's I've sat in seemed roomier. Also the multi-mode AWD feature is enticing, but I have a suspicion that I would barely ever use it and wouldn't see a lot of value. My question is, if I find a killer deal on a 2000 or 99 SR5, would I be missing out on anything by going with that over an 01-02 with all fancy drivetrain tech? I don't plan on doing any serious off-roading, Logging roads in the summer and mountain passes in the winter is about the extent of it.

Thanks to all the authors on this forum whose posts I've read while looking for my new rig!

 

[nor_cal51501]

So I'm in the market for a 3rd gen 4Runner. I was sort of leaning towards the 01-02, since the one's I've sat in seemed roomier. Also the multi-mode AWD feature is enticing, but I have a suspicion that I would barely ever use it and wouldn't see a lot of value. My question is, if I find a killer deal on a 2000 or 99 SR5, would I be missing out on anything by going with that over an 01-02 with all fancy drivetrain tech? I don't plan on doing any serious off-roading, Logging roads in the summer and mountain passes in the winter is about the extent of it.

Thanks to all the authors on this forum whose posts I've read while looking for my new rig!

IMO if you will be driving(although rarely) on lose dirt roads or snow/icy roads, the multi-mode is a big bonus, along with the Trac/VSC. They work really well together for snow and loose roads. Also, the advantage of multimode is that you are able to switch on the fly without stopping vs putting the trans in N, and moving the J shift into your desired drive state. In addition to your question, the 99-00 limiteds also have the multi-mode transfer cases. Im personally bias to the multi-mode because it is all that the normal J shift models are plus I have the ability to have "AWD" i.e. unlocked 4wd for slippery roads and conditions that don't really require locked mode but gives you a better, more stable driving experience. IMO.

 

[MStudt]

IMO if you will be driving(although rarely) on lose dirt roads or snow/icy roads, the multi-mode is a big bonus, along with the Trac/VSC. They work really well together for snow and loose roads. Also, the advantage of multimode is that you are able to switch on the fly without stopping, putting the trans in N, and moving the J shift into your desired drive state. In addition to your question, the 99-00 limiteds also have the multi-mode transfer cases. Im personally bias to the multi-mode because it is all that the normal J shift models are plus I have the ability to have "AWD" i.e. unlocked 4wd for slippery roads and conditions that don't really require locked mode but gives you a better, more stable driving experience. IMO.

The biggest issue that I've found on my 01 is the traction control. If you choice to get an 01-02, make sure you do the Andy MOD to disable traction control. There is nothing like trying to leave a stop light in the snow and loosing all your power because you spun a wheel.

 

[fish0281]

The VSC(?) kept me from piling into a trailer and/or spinning out into the ditch a couple weekends ago on an icy road. I swear by that part. I swear AT the traction control part cause it SUCKS and has left me w/o power as i slowly roll into the intersection. It. is. shit. VSC all the way though.

Also, the newer models (not sure what year it started though) allow you to use the 4Hi setting at any speed whereas with the older models, you weren't supposed to go above 40 or something like that. That's huge imo.

 

[02SE]

Also, the newer models (not sure what year it started though) allow you to use the 4Hi setting at any speed whereas with the older models, you weren't supposed to go above 40 or something like that. That's huge imo.

You can drive as fast as you want with any year 4Runner, in part-time 4wd, or full-time 4wd (often referred to on here as AWD). What you've apparently been confused about, is the speed above which you're not supposed to shift from 2wd to 4wd.

Toyota recommends not shifting from 2wd to 4wd, above 50 MPH. This is because above those speeds, you will have grinding as you shift from 2wd to 4wd, as the driveline tries to come up to speed.

Once in 4wd or AWD, you can run the truck right up to the speed governor, which is 106 MPH. Although you wouldn't like reach the governed speed due to more parasitic drag from powering the front end, drag from driving through snow or whatever prompted you to shift into 4wd in the first place, bigger, heavier tires that take more power to turn than stock, and lifts or off-road bumpers, etc. causing more aero drag, which further reduce the truck's ultimate top speed.

There is always the fact to consider that if conditions require 4wd, maybe you shouldn't be going excessively fast anyway.

 

[JEL]

I have multi-mode and live in the Seattle area for now, and IMO it's the best route here. Even though it only snows .05" every 3 years, it's nice to be able to switch into AWD when it does snow, more so just to have the ability to get out of the way of the ultra-inept Seattle drivers who are sliding all over the road upsidedown. I also like using it going up to the passes, switch into AWD below Steven's or Snoqualmie and forget about it and have no problems making sharp turns on dry pavement when coming down off the pass.

 

[fish0281]

You can drive as fast as you want with any year 4Runner, in part-time 4wd, or full-time 4wd (often referred to on here as AWD). What you've apparently been confused about, is the speed above which you're not supposed to shift from 2wd to 4wd.

Toyota recommends not shifting from 2wd to 4wd, above 50 MPH. This is because above those speeds, you will have grinding as you shift from 2wd to 4wd, as the driveline tries to come up to speed.

Once in 4wd or AWD, you can run the truck right up to the speed governor, which is 106 MPH. Although you wouldn't like reach the governed speed due to more parasitic drag from powering the front end, drag from driving through snow or whatever prompted you to shift into 4wd in the first place, bigger, heavier tires that take more power to turn than stock, and lifts or off-road bumpers, etc. causing more aero drag, which further reduce the truck's ultimate top speed.

There is always the fact to consider that if conditions require 4wd, maybe you shouldn't be going excessively fast anyway.

I was not referring to the shift speed limitation. I was under the belief that the older models, say '98 and older, had speed limitations in the 4hi mode. I thought it said something about it in the owner's manual even.... pretty sure I've read that on this forum too.

 

[Brique]

I really like having the multi mode in my 01, but with all 3rd gens getting to the age they are, I would say that finding one in great condition is going to override all other concerns.

That is to say, when i was shopping for my truck in October, I wanted an 01-02, but wasn't goIng to pass on a good condition 98, for example.

 

[02SE]

I was not referring to the shift speed limitation. I was under the belief that the older models, say '98 and older, had speed limitations in the 4hi mode. I thought it said something about it in the owner's manual even.... pretty sure I've read that on this forum too.

No special speed limiter for 4wd.

I've had my '97 V6 5-speed in 4hi driving at just under 100 MPH according to GPS, on the Bonneville Salt Flats. It's all stock as far the ECU's are concerned.

As seen here behind the Methanol burning TurboBusa, I was there to work on:

 

[fish0281]

No special speed limiter for 4wd.

I've had my '97 V6 5-speed in 4hi driving at just under 100 MPH according to GPS, on the Bonneville Salt Flats. It's all stock as far the ECU's are concerned.
[/IMG]

Just because you did it once doesn't mean it was designed for that and I'm pretty certain that different t-cases came with different model years... having had a '98 and an '01, I know that for fact. I finally found a thread that backs up what I was thinking.

Here's the thread describing the different t-cases, and here's a specific post that outlines 50mph as the max speed for one type in particular.

 

[02SE]

Just because you did it once doesn't mean it was designed for that and I'm pretty certain that different t-cases came with different model years... having had a '98 and an '01, I know that for fact. I finally found a thread that backs up what I was thinking.

Here's the thread describing the different t-cases, and here's a specific post that outlines 50mph as the max speed for one type in particular.

While brian2sun is a good guy from what I can tell on here over the years, he is not a Mechanic. He is an insurance salesman and musician, if memory serves. That post outlines nothing except a hunch he had.


I was an ASE Master Tech, and have rebuilt numerous transfer cases from a variety of manufacturers, back when I worked on consumer vehicles for a living.

The part-time VF series Transfer Case such as is used in my '97 and your '98 4Runner, will not be damaged to by running the vehicle at high speed, if there is no binding being experienced in the driveline.

The key factor where I've been running just under 100 MPH on the Salt Flats, is that the Salt is always just a little slippery. That allows for any potential binding in the driveline to be alleviated by small amounts of wheelspin.

By the way, I've done that on the Salt Flats, multiple times every year for the last 15 years. No unusual wear or problems with my transfer case.

I only posted that pic, because my 4Runner was in it. I've worked on numerous LandSpeed Racing cars and bikes over the years.

 

[fish0281]

While brian2sun is a good guy from what I can tell on here over the years, he is not a Mechanic. He is an insurance salesman and musician, if memory serves. That post outlines nothing except a hunch he had.


I was an ASE Master Tech, and have rebuilt numerous transfer cases from a variety of manufacturers, back when I worked on consumer vehicles for a living.

The part-time VF1A Transfer Case such as is used in my '97 and your '98 4Runner, will not be damaged to by running the vehicle at high speed, if there is no binding being experienced in the driveline.

The key factor where I've been running just under 100 MPH on the Salt Flats, is that the Salt is always just a little slippery. That allows for any potential binding in the driveline to be alleviated by small amounts of wheelspin.

By the way, I've done that on the Salt Flats, multiple times every year for the last 15 years. No unusual wear or problems with my transfer case.

I only posted that pic, because my 4Runner was in it. I've worked on numerous LandSpeed Racing cars and bikes over the years.

Congratulations... and I'm a mechanical engineer who understands the design of systems like this from a very intimate level of detail. I have also been busy getting my hands dirty on cars all my life, so this isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. None of that is neither here nor there, if the t-case wasn't designed to withstand speeds over 50, it WILL shorten its life span with regular road use (you even said it yourself, when the wheels don't bind, it's not an issue. but that doesn't mean you can just leave it engaged 12 months a year and expect it to last long). Not all model years have the same t-case with multi-mode or whatever. If you want to keep debating the point, be my guest, but I'm out.

 

[02SE]

Congratulations... and I'm a mechanical engineer who understands the design of systems like this from a very intimate level of detail. I have also been busy getting my hands dirty on cars all my life, so this isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. None of that is neither here nor there, if the t-case wasn't designed to withstand speeds over 50, it WILL shorten its life span with regular road use (you even said it yourself, when the wheels don't bind, it's not an issue. but that doesn't mean you can just leave it engaged 12 months a year and expect it to last long). Not all model years have the same t-case with multi-mode or whatever. If you want to keep debating the point, be my guest, but I'm out.

Congratulations on being a mechanical engineer. We get young mechanical engineers wanting to be a part of Professional Racing teams (not the hobby racing which is what it amounts to on the Salt Flats) I've worked/work on, all the time. They invariably have a lot of book theory, but little to no practical experience.

They'll make suggestions of how something should be made, not fully grasping how much clearance is necessary between two (or more) dissimilar metals that expand and contract at varying rates, wear rates of certain metals in specific applications, etc.

In short, they mean well, but are usually lacking in the understanding of applied mechanical engineering.

It's the reason they rarely last on the teams. People that have been actually doing the work and experimenting with new solutions, know more about what works, than the book-smart engineers.

Just so I don't offend all engineers, there are some working at the various high-performance manufacturers that have a very good understanding of what works in the particular application(s) they work on.



Anyway, to reiterate, the recommendation from Toyota is not to SHIFT INTO PART-TIME 4WD or FULL-TIME 4WD (AWD) ABOVE 50 MPH. Once in 4wd, you can drive as fast as conditions allow.

The reason you don't want to shift the transfer case above 50 mph, is because there are clutches in place to bring the front drive up to speed, without gear clash. Below 50 mph they work reliably. Above 50 mph they may not reliably be able to bring the driveline up to speed quickly enough, and you will then experience gear clash. More commonly known as grinding.

There is no ultimate speed limitation placed on the transfer cases from Toyota. Nowhere will you find information from Toyota stating you can't exceed 50 MPH with their transfer cases.

Of course part-time T-cases that are used in situations where they experience binding due to driving on high-traction surfaces, will wear more quickly. That's my whole point of only using my part-time 4wd in situations where wheelspin is possible, thus no binding. I estimate I've done high-speed runs on the Salt in part-time 4wd, approximately 60 times over the years. My T-case still operates as quietly and smoothly as it did, the day I drove it off the lot in '97.

Just one last note, my Sister has an '01 4Runner that has a multi-mode T-case. The inverted tooth Morse chain in her multi-mode T-case is no stronger or more durable than the Morse chain in the part-time T-cases. The multi-mode case does have a differential in it that allows use on any surface without binding. She has left her 4Runner in full-time 4wd (AWD) since the first Winter she had it. She says she prefers how the truck feels, even in dry conditions.

I am the only person that has serviced her 4Runner. The Transfer case has shown no signs of abnormal wear. 13 years of use in full-time 4wd, and it's just fine.

My part-time T-case is now nearly 17 years old, and is just fine too. Knowing when and where to use it, and servicing it regularly, makes all the difference.

All the transfer cases I worked on back when I did that type of work, were owned by people that didn't service them properly, and/or didn't understand when and under what conditions their particular transfer case could be used.

That's also the reason for the proliferation of AWD systems that require no input from the driver. They have been dumbed-down for the average consumer that just uses their vehicle as an appliance.

 

[TheeMikeB]

I think the multi-mode would be a big plus in the WA area. I chose the multi-mode years specifically to have the AWD option. If I want true 4x4 I push the CDL and i'm true 4x4.

And now that I'm dual locked I have two additional buttons to press so I can go anywhere

 

[fish0281]

Congratulations on being a mechanical engineer. We get young mechanical engineers wanting to be a part of Professional Racing teams (not the hobby racing which is what it amounts to on the Salt Flats) I've worked/work on, all the time. They invariably have a lot of book theory, but little to no practical experience.

They'll make suggestions of how something should be made, not fully grasping how much clearance is necessary between two (or more) dissimilar metals that expand and contract at varying rates, wear rates of certain metals in specific applications, etc.

In short, they mean well, but are usually lacking in the understanding of applied mechanical engineering.

It's the reason they rarely last on the teams. People that have been actually doing the work and experimenting with new solutions, know more about what works, than the book-smart engineers.

Just so I don't offend all engineers, there are some working at the various high-performance manufacturers that have a very good understanding of what works in the particular application(s) they work on.



Anyway, to reiterate, the recommendation from Toyota is not to SHIFT INTO PART-TIME 4WD or FULL-TIME 4WD (AWD) ABOVE 50 MPH. Once in 4wd, you can drive as fast as conditions allow.

The reason you don't want to shift the transfer case above 50 mph, is because there are clutches in place to bring the front drive up to speed, without gear clash. Below 50 mph they work reliably. Above 50 mph they may not reliably be able to bring the driveline up to speed quickly enough, and you will then experience gear clash. More commonly known as grinding.

There is no ultimate speed limitation placed on the transfer cases from Toyota. Nowhere will you find information from Toyota stating you can't exceed 50 MPH with their transfer cases.

Of course part-time T-cases that are used in situations where they experience binding due to driving on high-traction surfaces, will wear more quickly. That's my whole point of only using my part-time 4wd in situations where wheelspin is possible, thus no binding. I estimate I've done high-speed runs on the Salt in part-time 4wd, approximately 60 times over the years. My T-case still operates as quietly and smoothly as it did, the day I drove it off the lot in '97.

Just one last note, my Sister has an '01 4Runner that has a multi-mode T-case. The inverted tooth Morse chain in her multi-mode T-case is no stronger or more durable than the Morse chain in the part-time T-cases. The multi-mode case does have a differential in it that allows use on any surface without binding. She has left her 4Runner in full-time 4wd (AWD) since the first Winter she had it. She says she prefers how the truck feels, even in dry conditions.

I am the only person that has serviced her 4Runner. The Transfer case has shown no signs of abnormal wear. 13 years of use in full-time 4wd, and it's just fine.

My part-time T-case is now nearly 17 years old, and is just fine too. Knowing when and where to use it, and servicing it regularly, makes all the difference.

All the transfer cases I worked on back when I did that type of work, were owned by people that didn't service them properly, and/or didn't understand when and under what conditions their particular transfer case could be used.

That's also the reason for the proliferation of AWD systems that require no input from the driver. They have been dumbed-down for the average consumer that just uses their vehicle as an appliance.

You can keep going on with your assumptions, I don't have time for your bs. I'm not a "young engineer" and all those book smarts you're talking down about are the same exact things that lead to the very understanding of things such as a material's thermal expansion ratio that you seem to have a grasp of. Thanks for playing, have fun racing on the salt flats... I really don't care to carry on this conversation.

 

[02SE]

You can keep going on with your assumptions, I don't have time for your bs. I'm not a "young engineer" and all those book smarts you're talking down about are the same exact things that lead to the very understanding of things such as a material's thermal expansion ratio that you seem to have a grasp of. Thanks for playing, have fun racing on the salt flats... I really don't care to carry on this conversation.

Yet, you keep doing so.

The point I was making, is that you were giving incorrect advice to people that might think you know what you're talking about.

This quote specifically IS WRONG!

Also, the newer models (not sure what year it started though) allow you to use the 4Hi setting at any speed whereas with the older models, you weren't supposed to go above 40 or something like that. That's huge imo.

As a mechanical engineer, you should know enough to not to give advice that you are unsure of.

I tried to point out without being insulting, that your assumption was wrong.

Now you're resorting to name-calling by saying: "I don't have time for your bs".

At this point I'll just say stop spreading your own bs as fact, when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[4yotaguy]

I searched for my 00' for over two years, smartest thing I did. I specifically wanted multi-mode with a rear locker. I passed on mint Sr5's and even a few nice 01-02' Limited's as I new the trac system would annoy me- in stock form anyway.

So I live in the NYC area and the multi-mode is awesome! Great for rain and snow- and it makes a huge difference in both, and to me, it is something I could not live without after having it.

For your location and driving, I would definitely want it. Just my two cents.

 

[jgue467]

Get the 4WD

I drive mine off road at a deer lease (besides the day to day on road stuff), simple to moderately complex stuff but way fun! A couple times after one too many beers i've found myself driving just a little too fast on a packed dirt road that is also slightly curvy when the rear started sliding out, the VSC (in 4wd mode) kicked in and did a very nice job of settling it down for me. Mine has helped me in mud also When i remember to turn it on first! Your real choice is center (front to rear) lockers on the 01-02s optional on sr5 and standard on the limiteds or 99-00 w/rear optional lockers. Not sure which are easier to find. Good luck!

 

[02SE]

Your real choice is center (front to rear) lockers on the 01-02s optional on sr5 and standard on the limiteds

If you have an '01-'02 4wd 4Runner, be it an SR5 or Limited model, you have the center diff lock in the transfer case. It was standard on both trim levels.