Panhard Lift Bracket

[infamousRNR]

Still waiting on the DOM tube but here are the rod ends for the panhard bar

Dude. These are tits!!!

Anymore info so I can make my own?


Why did you go this route instead of a traditional heim or Johnny joint or flex joint?

 

[97 _SR5]

Dude. These are tits!!!

Anymore info so I can make my own?


Why did you go this route instead of a traditional heim or Johnny joint or flex joint?

I have no need for heim joints and wanted bushing style rod ends that are easily replaceable and cost effective. The Johnny or flex or ballistic are really nice joints but just cost too much for what I needed.

Rod ends I got here (they have right and left hand threaded versions)
Speedway Forged Steel 4-Bar Rod Ends, 5/8-18 RH Thread

Bushings are p/n 9.9105

 

[AssBurns]

So I checked my clearance for a panhard lift this weekend and I found that I could possibly raise the axle side maybe an inch max without hitting the crossmember. I pulled the coils and bottomed out the suspension and it was pretty close. I also moved my panhard back to stock location on the frame side which had a 3" drop bracket. I noticed it was quite a bit more stable. So from what I learned this weekend is that if you extend your bump stops you should definitely go with a axle side panhard lift. It will raise your roll center and feel much more stable. I also noticed that my suspension binds more with the panhard back at stock location. My suspension actually binds up before the shocks are fully extended. So what I think I may and up doing is cutting off that crossmember and building a new and higher mounted panhard setup. We'll see if I ever get around to doing it, but I could raise the roll center a few inches and still have my axle centered and less wobble when hitting bumps.
Pic for reference of axle on stock bump stops

 

[D Farms]

wow thanks for this new info, which has never been in another thread before.

 

[AssBurns]

No problem bud. I actually noticed a difference with the panhard raised but I also get a little side wobble on bumps since the panhard is back at an angle. I'd really like to get the most out of raising the axle side but obviously that isn't going to be a simple way to go. I'm thinking cutting off the stock cross member and welding in a 2"x4" tubing as a new crossmember. That way I could probably raise the axle side 5-6" and make the frame side equal. Sounds like a lot of work but it would definitely be worth it. I'm glad I saw this thread because I would have never paid much attention to this.

 

[97 _SR5]

These my rear bump stops

 

[AssBurns]

Basically you can raise your panhard as much as you lowered your bump stops. I still have stock bump stops so I can't do much with the stock crossmember still there. Glad you are able to make it work with your setup though

 

[D Farms]

Use the search function.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/176020-adjustable-panhard-bar-options.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/210697-4th-gen-5th-gen-fj-panhard-bar-3rd-gen.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/173997-d-farms-build-thread-goldilocks-4.html#post2187030

its not really a matter of opinion actually there are specific advantages and disadvantages to each of the four options.

First off let me start with a brief explanation of the stock suspension on the rear of the 3rd gen 4runner. The solid rear axle is linked to the frame using 4 links in line with the frame and 1 link perpendicularly aligned with the frame. the two lower links are angles in slightly, and the two upper links angled in more than the lower links, but are not fully triangulated. Because the upper links are not fully triangulated a flat pan hard bar is used to center the axle left and right.

side note: an advantage of this 5 link setup is that the links dont require very much rotation or misalignment with close to stock travel numbers so rubber bushings can be used for quite some time without having to be replaced.

When the panhard bar is flat the left to right movement is small compared to the up and down movement. On a non lifted truck the axle is compressed from ride height, it slowly moves towards the passenger side, as it extends it slowly moves towards the passenger side.

When you lift the truck, the axle moves down from the body and all of the links angle down, including the panhard bar. The further down the panhard bar is angled the more left and right movement you attain from up and down movement. This causes the axle to move to the passenger side when the truck sits at the new lifted ride height. Now when the axle is compressed from the new ride height it first moves to the drivers side, then as the axle extends downwards it moves more quickly towards the passenger side.

Do nothing:
Advantages: Its free, and the axle will center it self correctly when flexed out or fully bumped.

Disadvantages: The axle will not be centered at ride height. There will be more sided to side movement than there is if the bar is flat. The more lift you have the more severe the disadvantages. The roll center only rises half of how much the truck is lifted, this nets more body roll.

Adjustable panhard:
Advantages: Centers the axle and corrects the left to right pinion angle. It is adjustable for different lifts.

Disadvantages: The axle will not center properly under full bump and flex and will cause more of a problem with the drive shaft running into the gas tank(this can be fixed by adding extended bump stops). all of the disadvantages of doing nothing except the axle being centered. It is the most expensive option.

Panhard drop bracket:
Advantages: Centers the axle, Corrects left to right pinion, Reduces left to right movement of axle during travel. Lower cost compared to adjustable panhard bar. The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump and flex.

Disadvantages: Not adjustable, and also doesn't come in different sizes(unless you make your own). the roll center remains at the same height while the center of mass moves up(this makes the truck have more body roll)

Panhard lift(on the axle)
Advantages: Properly centers axle, reduces left to right movement during travel, raises roll center (making the the truck less prone to body roll). The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump.

Disadvantages: this would have to be made by a shop, unless you can simply weld the drop bracket on the axle? extended bump stops may be required if you match the amount of lift with your suspension lift, you should check for clearance before hand( this being said I have installed a 4.5" lift bracket and my bump stops are extended around 2.5" so you could concievably get away with a 2"-3" lift with no problems. cost is probably still less than the adjustable panhard bar even if you have to have one fabricated and installed. I believe that the axle may move towards the gas tank slightly more than the panhard drop does, but not as much as the adjustable panhard bar.

It is generally accepted that the panhard should be flat if possible because it decreases left to right movement of the axle. I have also heard that a flat panhard bar reduces rear axle steer. additionally if you decrease body roll you have more grip because the load is kept equal on each tire, it also increases side hill stability. on my truck I installed my lift bracket and noticed a huge increase in handling around corners and over bumps, I had to install a new axle in the rear and have not yet installed the lift bracket and have noticed a significant increase in body roll and side to side movement compared to before. more notably without the lift bracket if I floor it going around a corner I can cause one tire to loose traction, when the lift bracket was installed the tires refused to loose traction and just felt much more grippy, I loved the new feeling of the truck so much i went and tested out in the desert immediately. I cant wait to reinstall the lift bracket!

Heres some more information on some of the terms I used
Panhard Bar
Roll Center
Body Roll
4 link with panhard

Hopefully you find this interesting and useful, I spent quite a bit of time researching this, and also a bit of time writing this response.

 

[infamousRNR]

I have no need for heim joints and wanted bushing style rod ends that are easily replaceable and cost effective. The Johnny or flex or ballistic are really nice joints but just cost too much for what I needed.

Rod ends I got here (they have right and left hand threaded versions)
Speedway Forged Steel 4-Bar Rod Ends, 5/8-18 RH Thread

Bushings are p/n 9.9105

Do those rod ends come with bushings and you just bought POLY ones instead and switched them?....

Also where did you purchase the female threaded sleeve thing you got on them that you will eventually weld to the DOM tubing?

What length do you think you'll cut the DOM tube to?

 

[97 _SR5]

Do those rod ends come with bushings and you just bought POLY ones instead and switched them?....

Also where did you purchase the female threaded sleeve thing you got on them that you will eventually weld to the DOM tubing?

What length do you think you'll cut the DOM tube to?

Yes the rods come with plastic bushings so I purchased the energy suspension separate. I forget where I got the weld on adapters for the tube, and my tube should be in tomorrow so I let you know what length I cut it to when I weld the bar together.

Rafal

 

[infamousRNR]

Yes the rods come with plastic bushings so I purchased the energy suspension separate. I forget where I got the weld on adapters for the tube, and my tube should be in tomorrow so I let you know what length I cut it to when I weld the bar together.

Rafal

I'm confused on how you knew that these rod ends would be the right fit for mounting to the pan hard bar mount locations?

Like width wise, I think our pan hard bar mount locations are about 2" wide???

 

[97 _SR5]

I'm confused on how you knew that these rod ends would be the right fit for mounting to the pan hard bar mount locations?

Like width wise, I think our pan hard bar mount locations are about 2" wide???

When I measured they came out to be roughly 1.5"... These bushings are 1.4" so a little under but I can make up the difference by adding washer between the mount and bushing.

Rafal

 

[Yoter]

I also moved my panhard back to stock location on the frame side which had a 3" drop bracket. I noticed it was quite a bit more stable.

I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly, you noticed a better more stable ride with the stock setup then with the panhard drop?!
Thats different then what everyone has been saying, I was going to do a simple drop bracket but now I'm just confused!

 

[AssBurns]

I wouldn't say it's much better of a ride but it is more stable. With the panhard bar dropped it has more body roll but less axle wobble or whatever you want to call it. I personally would rather have that little extra wobble and have less body roll. So the best thing to get even less body roll and have no axle wobble would be to do an axle side panhard lift. You just gotta make sure you have clearance or it will hit your frame.

 

[97 _SR5]

OK, got everything welded up. Bracket on axle (had to make a change to design... forgot the new bracket is much wider than OEM because it is being welded over the OEM bracket so i drilled oversize holes and welded a short sleeve on either side of the bracket. Also used washers on the inside of the bracket on either side of bushing as the rod ends are 1.4" wide and OEM brackets on axle/frame are 1.5" wide.):



Angle of old bar:




Angle of new bar:



Initial feel of rear end is great. Feels much more stable taking turns and swerving around. Did some measuring around prior to welding and the bracket gives 4 and 1/4" of lift on the bar. Oem is bar is 37", my bar ended up being 38 and 1/8" in length (measured center of bolt hole to center of bolt hole). Have a 700 mile trip again at the end of the month so I will get a better idea of how it feels on the highway at higher speeds.

 

[AssBurns]

Looks good man! I've really been thinking about making a lift bracket now since I ditched the drop bracket. I thought about moving the bracket a few more inches behind the axle in order the clear the crossmember. Another thing I was wondering was if the bracket was moved higher up would hitting a decent sized bump on one side of the vehicle put more load on the bracket and panhard bar and less on the suspension? Try to pay attention to it and let me know if it is a noticeable difference. Either way it would seem like the lift would out weight the drawbacks

 

[SIKHILUXSURF]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/1777589-post11.html

 

[D Farms]

Looks good man! I've really been thinking about making a lift bracket now since I ditched the drop bracket. I thought about moving the bracket a few more inches behind the axle in order the clear the crossmember. Another thing I was wondering was if the bracket was moved higher up would hitting a decent sized bump on one side of the vehicle put more load on the bracket and panhard bar and less on the suspension? Try to pay attention to it and let me know if it is a noticeable difference. Either way it would seem like the lift would out weight the drawbacks

you would have to move the frame side as well.

 

[infamousRNR]

you would have to move the frame side as well.

Does anyone know what size bolts the ends of the pan hard bar are??..

Are they 9/16"???

 

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=100116]D Farms[/MENTION]
I was wondering about that. Moving the frame side would be really easy but I wonder if you would really need to. It seems like if you bent the panhard to be a couple inches offset, it wouldn't make a difference. Correct me if I'm wrong though.