Pelfreybilt - See Update on Last Page
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LawnDart
Senior Member
Yes.
First, I want to support all those folks who are waiting for their product.
Second, I want to support PB's attempts to stay in business.
Finally, for those who simply cannot move forward with their PB purchase and hope/expect to get a refund, and others considering a similar design, perhaps it's time to consider getting Bud to put this into production:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/146674-front-rear-bumbers-5th-generation.html#post1440484
Second, I want to support PB's attempts to stay in business.
Finally, for those who simply cannot move forward with their PB purchase and hope/expect to get a refund, and others considering a similar design, perhaps it's time to consider getting Bud to put this into production:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/146674-front-rear-bumbers-5th-generation.html#post1440484
ChrisJHarney
New member
I want to say first that I am nobody on this forum, in fact I only started lurking and signed up this last January, but have come to appreciate many long time posters with the insight and time to post some very helpful and useful advice. I am a long time trail rider but only started 4 wheeling seriously in 2016, before that it was dirt bikes and quads. I have camped all my life, but I’ve never overlanded (sic). I do, however, go on road trips and trail rides where I’m out for a week at a time. All this is beside the point, but I figure I might as well introduce myself before I write something that is terribly long and may be extremely boring.
Anyway, I have been monitoring this situation since the first SOS press release last week. I too have product and services hanging in the balance, so this is not just someone else coming to the defense of the Pelfrey family. In fact, let me start out by saying that I TOTALLY understand the anger and frustration many of you who have been waiting a very long time for product are feeling and expressing on here and other forums. Although, to be honest, I have to admit Tacoma World has you beat by the sheer ridiculousness of how they are handling the Pelfreybilt thread (spoiler alert, there will be A LOT of pictures of dogs and bbq meat awaiting). Anyway, I felt compelled to write something of an insight in to how something like this could have happened to such a well known, well liked, and seemingly uber-successful company like Pelfreybilt. Please note, these are my observations and opinions based on information I have received from Tyler and Satin in the brief talks I’ve had with them since this all went down. I in no way have the depth of understanding of exact events that led to this. Conversely, this is also not wild speculation either, just what I know and can surmise from what I know.
Sometimes in business the perfect storm hits in the most unexpected and detrimental way. Release date gets extended on an important product, steel tariffs take hold and increase production costs, orders drop for a month so investors get spooked, R&D work/marketing costs over extend the budget, all of these things can can dry up even the most robust company coffers. And when shit hits the fan, usually the man at the top catches the flak. And that would be Tyler Pelfrey. Many of you know him, many of you don’t, so if you don’t, here’s a basic surmise of what I know of the man. He is a creative genius, a perfectionist, extremely humble, and socially averse. This can be both a blessing and a curse. If his personality were that of Elon Musk, Pelfreybilt would be doing just fine, as he would be tweeting and updating every week, and people (customers and investors) would be excited and OK with the wait times and hiccups to get what will be the best product on the market (yes I realize this is just my opinion, yours may vary). As it is, he spends his time in the lab, working out bugs, and begrudgingly going to these “overland festivals” to promote product. He is unassuming, kind, gentle, and detrimentally ethical. In all of our conversations I have never heard him utter a single negative word about ANY other vendor, period. He has a respect for his competitors that is apparently lacking in return even in this boutique industry, given the amount of back stabbing that happened as soon as word dropped about this (seems as though people often forget that text messages can be screen shot and sent). This year, for many construction and fabrication businesses, is going to end worse than it started for a variety of reasons. I won’t get political, but a lot is going on in the world and America that is going to make it very difficult for a lot of hard working people to continue living the way they have the past few years of this economic high. Brace yourself. But I digress. Tyler Pelfrey, while being extremely good at what he does, has a few areas on the business side of his venture that contributed to this situation, as well as a few external, unfortunate factors that came into play right at the worst time, that sealed the deal, and so here we are now. Thankfully, all of the personal areas of deficit can be remedied, the external, only time will tell. But being the best usually helps. Here are a few of the factors that I thought of that could have contributed to this situation.
1. Perfectionism at it’s best (worst): Again, I know that a lot of people waiting for their product don’t know the man behind the design and production process, and I will admit that if I were in YOUR shoes, I would feel just as anxious, upset, and frustrated. And while I have only known him for a couple years, we both talked shop A LOT during our outings. Please know that I’m not defending the business model as much as I’m trying to impart a sense of who he is. Tyler is a perfectionist, and a man who takes a great amount of pride in not only what kind of product he puts his name on, but HOW that product is designed and built. We talked extensively back in May of 2017 about the design process and production of their 5th gen front plate bumper, and how much effort and frustration went into making that bumper (my words and opinions) a work of art. Function with form. We talked about customer service (this is just before Pelfreybilt exploded with new work, and a couple months before they expanded to the new shop) and how difficult it is to keep up personally with every customer, and how sometimes there is just not pleasing everyone. It’s a toll on the psyche that I know very well being in the service industry myself. While Satin and Michael are extremely caring and customer oriented, there is only so much that two people can do to keep up on updates (more on this later) Ultimately, (again, this is my interpretation of the situation) his perfectionism delayed the release of the 5th gen dual swing out, when it should have been ready to rock back around Jan. 2018. It was good back then. It was really good, and it worked (I saw videos of them testing the swing out and latch). BUT, it wasn’t perfect (to Tyler). I’ve learned in my business that sometimes it doesn’t NEED to be perfect to sell. I’ve watched fellow contractors go under very quickly because they were just never satisfied with their own work, and “fixed” things that were just fine, and ended up eating all the profit out of the job. Well for Pelfreybilt, those badly needed funds got pushed further into the future while cash flow slowly slipped away.
2. R&D work is expensive. Period. You are spending money that you are hoping turns into a product that people want. You are trying to do it better, and you are trying to be first out to kill the competition. Well, when you have 10 projects that are 90% done, you aren’t making any money off of any of them until you get them out to market. I know Pelfreybilt was working on a lot of projects, 3rd gen and 4th gen rear dual bumpers, 4th and 5th gen skids, plus a whole Tundra line of parts. That’s a lot, especially when you’re flagship bumper has been delayed almost 8 months, and that is badly needed revenue that would be gravy in the matter of a year.
3. Communication. Is. Key. They dropped the ball, and admit as much. There is nothing that gets people frothing at the mouth more than not having emails and calls returned. Going back to the Musk analogy, nothing buys you precious time than communicating and being open and honest about what is going on with a product that you expect at a certain time. Even group emails or social media posts would be better than nothing. Details about what’s being worked on or why there is a delay is also helpful. In the moment, when you have a million things going on and hundreds of people wanting updates, I know it’s difficult to find the time to do that, but it is absolute key. If there is one common theme amongst angry customers on this and other threads, it’s that the lack of communication was the most frustrating part.
4. Growth management: Being excited you have 25 orders a day coming in is a good problem to have. Not so good? Having to tell people there is a really long wait. Really not good? Having to tell people “sorry, we are just so behind right now that we aren’t accepting any new orders until we are caught up”. Will you lose that sale? Maybe? But maybe not, if they are willing to wait for something they really want. But what is worse is taking every order you can and then finding yourself in an unmanageable hole. Tesla took I believe 500,000 preorders for the Model 3, which was a huge cash injection for them. But that was back in 2016!!!!!! And they are just starting to ramp up production. They lost around 65,000 orders due to the wait and various other factors. If they didn’t have the backing of Musk as well as the extremely excited group of investors they do, Tesla would just be the next Fiskar Karma, bought out and reproduced. When you don’t have the cash that hundreds of millionaires backing your company affords you, one must be more prudent in taking orders for something that isn’t ready yet.
5. Material price increases: I’ve heard the line “well price increase wasn’t THAT much, it shouldn’t have affected the profit margin by a whole lot”. Well when you’re talking about a product that is still in pre-production, with pre-orders taken at a specific price point, money still being burned through to make sure that everything is absolutely perfect, even a 10% material increase is substantial and puts you in the red. For me, finished copper wiring has increased over 30% this year. So have finished steel products like my outlet boxes I use in almost every home I work in. If I were selling jobs last year that I wasn’t going to get to until this year, my profit would be GONE. Construction is in full bloom right now, and so is interest for LUXURY items, like bumpers. But what happens when American contractors and fabricators go under water and take their employees down with them? All of a sudden there’s no more cash flow. People stop purchasing these items because it was barely in reach of their finances to begin with, and so demand diminishes. More companies that rely on these contractors and fabricators to purchase their services (laser cutters, welders, powder coat) are left with outstanding invoices, and so the ripple effect continues.
6. Which brings me to my last observation. Google “sales down 2018”. Across the board, sales have been down almost EVERYWHERE, and the “overland” community is no exception. In fact, I would bet that the first place sales would be down would be for luxury items and vacations. There’s a storm brewing and when it hits if you’re not on top, you’re going to drown. Pelfreybilt WAS on top, as far as I can tell. Highly regarded, top quality products, HISTORICALLY good customer service (we’ll say pre-June 2018). Companies don’t grow as fast as they do without putting out top shelf stuff. When sales drop and prices increase, investors freak out and pull their wallets back in. Be ready for more of your beloved boutique shops to close shop in the next year if policies don’t change.
Perfect storm. There was nothing devious or deceptive going on over at Pelfreybilt with people’s money. What was happening was a whole lot of product development and not so much of new product production (due to a variety of factors). This is not unheard of, and while it sucks, and frustrating, it’s not illegal. Ill-advised, most definitely. But they weren’t using pre-order money to fund the new development, they were burning through investor cash and credit to get product development done and production up and running. Take this rear bumper for example. It was well past initial development stage before they announced pre-order opportunities, in fact it was in a working state, just not fine tuned enough (for Tyler) to be put out there yet. They weren’t selling a product they didn’t have, they were selling an opportunity to be first in line when it dropped. It’s done, it’s finished, and it’s installed on several vehicles. Unfortunately, now they need more money to get production back up and running and orders fulfilled. Call it what you will, bad business planning, optimistic outlook, or shear bad timing due to external factors. Optimism sometimes runs faster than rationality. Again, this is not a defense of the business model Pelfreybilt was using, as current events show us was unsustainable. This is a defense of Tyler and Satin as people, who have both lost EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, trying to bring the best product to this community. If you think they took your money and ran, you are sorely mistaken. They, like all of us who pre-ordered their rear bumper, went all in, and ended up short by about 3 months. The 5th gen bumper is production ready and there are a few ready to be shipped, hopefully still sitting there at the shop waiting for some cash injection to ship out. As well as about 50 Taco bumpers, etc.
I want to be very clear that I am fully aware of how frustrated and upset many PB customers are because of this debacle, and I want all those people to understand that, like their social media posts have said, there is a plan, but it’s contingent on many things that I simply don’t have the clearance to ask, or talk, about. I did talk to Tyler and Satin briefly last night, and they are devastated that this is happening. They care deeply about both their customers, as well as the employees that were working for them. Their only concern at this point is to get the production lines back up and get customers orders filled as quickly as possible. Tyler won’t even be drawing a salary as part of the start up plan. This is not about continuing as they were, this is about humbly asking to be given the chance to make good on their word. I’m sure they will, after a decision is made on Tuesday, release a full statement about the future.
In closing, I’m not foolish enough to think I know all the answers to this problem, I am simply trying to be more analytical and understanding of the bigger picture. I wanted to share some of the information that I’ve been given, as well as share my opinions on the matter, based off of what I know. I really hope tomorrow brings good news for both the Pelfrey’s, and all of us who are waiting on parts. Peace.
Anyway, I have been monitoring this situation since the first SOS press release last week. I too have product and services hanging in the balance, so this is not just someone else coming to the defense of the Pelfrey family. In fact, let me start out by saying that I TOTALLY understand the anger and frustration many of you who have been waiting a very long time for product are feeling and expressing on here and other forums. Although, to be honest, I have to admit Tacoma World has you beat by the sheer ridiculousness of how they are handling the Pelfreybilt thread (spoiler alert, there will be A LOT of pictures of dogs and bbq meat awaiting). Anyway, I felt compelled to write something of an insight in to how something like this could have happened to such a well known, well liked, and seemingly uber-successful company like Pelfreybilt. Please note, these are my observations and opinions based on information I have received from Tyler and Satin in the brief talks I’ve had with them since this all went down. I in no way have the depth of understanding of exact events that led to this. Conversely, this is also not wild speculation either, just what I know and can surmise from what I know.
Sometimes in business the perfect storm hits in the most unexpected and detrimental way. Release date gets extended on an important product, steel tariffs take hold and increase production costs, orders drop for a month so investors get spooked, R&D work/marketing costs over extend the budget, all of these things can can dry up even the most robust company coffers. And when shit hits the fan, usually the man at the top catches the flak. And that would be Tyler Pelfrey. Many of you know him, many of you don’t, so if you don’t, here’s a basic surmise of what I know of the man. He is a creative genius, a perfectionist, extremely humble, and socially averse. This can be both a blessing and a curse. If his personality were that of Elon Musk, Pelfreybilt would be doing just fine, as he would be tweeting and updating every week, and people (customers and investors) would be excited and OK with the wait times and hiccups to get what will be the best product on the market (yes I realize this is just my opinion, yours may vary). As it is, he spends his time in the lab, working out bugs, and begrudgingly going to these “overland festivals” to promote product. He is unassuming, kind, gentle, and detrimentally ethical. In all of our conversations I have never heard him utter a single negative word about ANY other vendor, period. He has a respect for his competitors that is apparently lacking in return even in this boutique industry, given the amount of back stabbing that happened as soon as word dropped about this (seems as though people often forget that text messages can be screen shot and sent). This year, for many construction and fabrication businesses, is going to end worse than it started for a variety of reasons. I won’t get political, but a lot is going on in the world and America that is going to make it very difficult for a lot of hard working people to continue living the way they have the past few years of this economic high. Brace yourself. But I digress. Tyler Pelfrey, while being extremely good at what he does, has a few areas on the business side of his venture that contributed to this situation, as well as a few external, unfortunate factors that came into play right at the worst time, that sealed the deal, and so here we are now. Thankfully, all of the personal areas of deficit can be remedied, the external, only time will tell. But being the best usually helps. Here are a few of the factors that I thought of that could have contributed to this situation.
1. Perfectionism at it’s best (worst): Again, I know that a lot of people waiting for their product don’t know the man behind the design and production process, and I will admit that if I were in YOUR shoes, I would feel just as anxious, upset, and frustrated. And while I have only known him for a couple years, we both talked shop A LOT during our outings. Please know that I’m not defending the business model as much as I’m trying to impart a sense of who he is. Tyler is a perfectionist, and a man who takes a great amount of pride in not only what kind of product he puts his name on, but HOW that product is designed and built. We talked extensively back in May of 2017 about the design process and production of their 5th gen front plate bumper, and how much effort and frustration went into making that bumper (my words and opinions) a work of art. Function with form. We talked about customer service (this is just before Pelfreybilt exploded with new work, and a couple months before they expanded to the new shop) and how difficult it is to keep up personally with every customer, and how sometimes there is just not pleasing everyone. It’s a toll on the psyche that I know very well being in the service industry myself. While Satin and Michael are extremely caring and customer oriented, there is only so much that two people can do to keep up on updates (more on this later) Ultimately, (again, this is my interpretation of the situation) his perfectionism delayed the release of the 5th gen dual swing out, when it should have been ready to rock back around Jan. 2018. It was good back then. It was really good, and it worked (I saw videos of them testing the swing out and latch). BUT, it wasn’t perfect (to Tyler). I’ve learned in my business that sometimes it doesn’t NEED to be perfect to sell. I’ve watched fellow contractors go under very quickly because they were just never satisfied with their own work, and “fixed” things that were just fine, and ended up eating all the profit out of the job. Well for Pelfreybilt, those badly needed funds got pushed further into the future while cash flow slowly slipped away.
2. R&D work is expensive. Period. You are spending money that you are hoping turns into a product that people want. You are trying to do it better, and you are trying to be first out to kill the competition. Well, when you have 10 projects that are 90% done, you aren’t making any money off of any of them until you get them out to market. I know Pelfreybilt was working on a lot of projects, 3rd gen and 4th gen rear dual bumpers, 4th and 5th gen skids, plus a whole Tundra line of parts. That’s a lot, especially when you’re flagship bumper has been delayed almost 8 months, and that is badly needed revenue that would be gravy in the matter of a year.
3. Communication. Is. Key. They dropped the ball, and admit as much. There is nothing that gets people frothing at the mouth more than not having emails and calls returned. Going back to the Musk analogy, nothing buys you precious time than communicating and being open and honest about what is going on with a product that you expect at a certain time. Even group emails or social media posts would be better than nothing. Details about what’s being worked on or why there is a delay is also helpful. In the moment, when you have a million things going on and hundreds of people wanting updates, I know it’s difficult to find the time to do that, but it is absolute key. If there is one common theme amongst angry customers on this and other threads, it’s that the lack of communication was the most frustrating part.
4. Growth management: Being excited you have 25 orders a day coming in is a good problem to have. Not so good? Having to tell people there is a really long wait. Really not good? Having to tell people “sorry, we are just so behind right now that we aren’t accepting any new orders until we are caught up”. Will you lose that sale? Maybe? But maybe not, if they are willing to wait for something they really want. But what is worse is taking every order you can and then finding yourself in an unmanageable hole. Tesla took I believe 500,000 preorders for the Model 3, which was a huge cash injection for them. But that was back in 2016!!!!!! And they are just starting to ramp up production. They lost around 65,000 orders due to the wait and various other factors. If they didn’t have the backing of Musk as well as the extremely excited group of investors they do, Tesla would just be the next Fiskar Karma, bought out and reproduced. When you don’t have the cash that hundreds of millionaires backing your company affords you, one must be more prudent in taking orders for something that isn’t ready yet.
5. Material price increases: I’ve heard the line “well price increase wasn’t THAT much, it shouldn’t have affected the profit margin by a whole lot”. Well when you’re talking about a product that is still in pre-production, with pre-orders taken at a specific price point, money still being burned through to make sure that everything is absolutely perfect, even a 10% material increase is substantial and puts you in the red. For me, finished copper wiring has increased over 30% this year. So have finished steel products like my outlet boxes I use in almost every home I work in. If I were selling jobs last year that I wasn’t going to get to until this year, my profit would be GONE. Construction is in full bloom right now, and so is interest for LUXURY items, like bumpers. But what happens when American contractors and fabricators go under water and take their employees down with them? All of a sudden there’s no more cash flow. People stop purchasing these items because it was barely in reach of their finances to begin with, and so demand diminishes. More companies that rely on these contractors and fabricators to purchase their services (laser cutters, welders, powder coat) are left with outstanding invoices, and so the ripple effect continues.
6. Which brings me to my last observation. Google “sales down 2018”. Across the board, sales have been down almost EVERYWHERE, and the “overland” community is no exception. In fact, I would bet that the first place sales would be down would be for luxury items and vacations. There’s a storm brewing and when it hits if you’re not on top, you’re going to drown. Pelfreybilt WAS on top, as far as I can tell. Highly regarded, top quality products, HISTORICALLY good customer service (we’ll say pre-June 2018). Companies don’t grow as fast as they do without putting out top shelf stuff. When sales drop and prices increase, investors freak out and pull their wallets back in. Be ready for more of your beloved boutique shops to close shop in the next year if policies don’t change.
Perfect storm. There was nothing devious or deceptive going on over at Pelfreybilt with people’s money. What was happening was a whole lot of product development and not so much of new product production (due to a variety of factors). This is not unheard of, and while it sucks, and frustrating, it’s not illegal. Ill-advised, most definitely. But they weren’t using pre-order money to fund the new development, they were burning through investor cash and credit to get product development done and production up and running. Take this rear bumper for example. It was well past initial development stage before they announced pre-order opportunities, in fact it was in a working state, just not fine tuned enough (for Tyler) to be put out there yet. They weren’t selling a product they didn’t have, they were selling an opportunity to be first in line when it dropped. It’s done, it’s finished, and it’s installed on several vehicles. Unfortunately, now they need more money to get production back up and running and orders fulfilled. Call it what you will, bad business planning, optimistic outlook, or shear bad timing due to external factors. Optimism sometimes runs faster than rationality. Again, this is not a defense of the business model Pelfreybilt was using, as current events show us was unsustainable. This is a defense of Tyler and Satin as people, who have both lost EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, trying to bring the best product to this community. If you think they took your money and ran, you are sorely mistaken. They, like all of us who pre-ordered their rear bumper, went all in, and ended up short by about 3 months. The 5th gen bumper is production ready and there are a few ready to be shipped, hopefully still sitting there at the shop waiting for some cash injection to ship out. As well as about 50 Taco bumpers, etc.
I want to be very clear that I am fully aware of how frustrated and upset many PB customers are because of this debacle, and I want all those people to understand that, like their social media posts have said, there is a plan, but it’s contingent on many things that I simply don’t have the clearance to ask, or talk, about. I did talk to Tyler and Satin briefly last night, and they are devastated that this is happening. They care deeply about both their customers, as well as the employees that were working for them. Their only concern at this point is to get the production lines back up and get customers orders filled as quickly as possible. Tyler won’t even be drawing a salary as part of the start up plan. This is not about continuing as they were, this is about humbly asking to be given the chance to make good on their word. I’m sure they will, after a decision is made on Tuesday, release a full statement about the future.
In closing, I’m not foolish enough to think I know all the answers to this problem, I am simply trying to be more analytical and understanding of the bigger picture. I wanted to share some of the information that I’ve been given, as well as share my opinions on the matter, based off of what I know. I really hope tomorrow brings good news for both the Pelfrey’s, and all of us who are waiting on parts. Peace.
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Well, thank you Tyler for this much anticipated explanation...I mean Chris.
My thoughts:
1. Sometimes perfection gets in the way of completing things and they never quite make it. To have that happen to a small business, especially with investors/creditors on your back, can be suicide. This is just a bumper, good enough is fine. Almost perfect, as in this case, is certainly more than fine. I wonder how many orders were for the regular, non-swingout version of this bumper. Perhaps it may have been wise to pump those out first while still trying to perfect the swingout version.
2. It appears too much time/money may have been spent on the new projects requiring R&D and not enough to pumping out the core products that bring in operating funds. I truly appreciate Tyler's R&D efforts, as it shows in this bumper. But you cannot jeopardize your core product(s)!
3. From all that I hear, Tyler is a first class guy. I doubt this will end in a bad way. I have no risk in this so it's easy to say that.
Good luck to PB and their clients!
My thoughts:
1. Sometimes perfection gets in the way of completing things and they never quite make it. To have that happen to a small business, especially with investors/creditors on your back, can be suicide. This is just a bumper, good enough is fine. Almost perfect, as in this case, is certainly more than fine. I wonder how many orders were for the regular, non-swingout version of this bumper. Perhaps it may have been wise to pump those out first while still trying to perfect the swingout version.
2. It appears too much time/money may have been spent on the new projects requiring R&D and not enough to pumping out the core products that bring in operating funds. I truly appreciate Tyler's R&D efforts, as it shows in this bumper. But you cannot jeopardize your core product(s)!
3. From all that I hear, Tyler is a first class guy. I doubt this will end in a bad way. I have no risk in this so it's easy to say that.
Good luck to PB and their clients!
T4RZAN
New member
I was fortunate enough to spend three hours with Tyler at the Lonestar Toyota Jamboree this year and I know first hand just how incredible of a guy he is. Like many have stated, he truly has a passion for what he does and wants it to be done the right way. I know there are several on here that can agree that there was no purposeful wrong doing on any accounts. Like the post above states, I think the "perfect storm" hit.
I genuinely believe that they will be back up and running again, but the right way. I hope to have more Pelfreybilt products in the near future.
I genuinely believe that they will be back up and running again, but the right way. I hope to have more Pelfreybilt products in the near future.
ChrisJHarney
New member
It would be very difficult for another boutique shop to absorb debt, current costs, as well as fill back orders, which would be absolutely critical to their reputation, but I know the question has been asked. The other problem is that most other boutique shops already have the same lineup, so it wouldn’t make sense unless you’re someone like Gobi (itself a subsidiary of Intelligent Design 2000), who probably has the capital to float them and definitely the means to get distribution back on track.
It would definitely have to be a long term investment. It would make more sense for a larger corporation to absorb them, but keep them semi-autonomous in regards to design and customer service. The portfolio is all there, and it’s amazing, as are the 10+ other projects that were in the pipeline for next year (GX, 4th gen, 3rd gen, Tundra, etc.), and the 5th gen dual swing is ready for production as is.
So really, it’s all about getting the accounting right, back orders filled immediately, and keeping the reigns tight until they’re back in black.
Daohaus
New member
I hear a certain corporation with a 3 letter name and owns a rather huge 4 wheel parts inventory is looking really hard at getting into "overlanding"
They're big enough to absorb and keep them separate...weirder things have happened.
Sanpete
New member
No, I’m a nobody on the forum who isn’t connected to any of this. But you? Let’s just say yours is an oddly detailed response for someone claiming to not be connected to the company. Your post is quoted for posterity.
Let’s break down the numbers. I’ve read 79 orders deep. $3,000 to $3,500 each backorder, and that’s just for this rear bumper, not counting other open orders paid up. That’s a low total of $237,000 to a high of $267,000.
Approximately a quarter of a million dollars has been spent and has disappeared.
This isn’t the first time a family-run company mismanaged funds (or purposely disposed of; we’ll probably never know) and leaves hundreds of people with nothing.
ChrisJHarney
New member
Considering I just started posting a month or so ago and have not accumulated much in the way of contacts, I would consider myself someone who (save for a couple real life friends who on on here) no one knows in either conversation or real life. I don’t attend overland festivals, and I don’t do group rides out to wherever, so it’s highly unlikely anyone from here will ever recognize me out on the trails other than I could very well be one of 10 people who were very lucky to get their rear bumpers before shit hit the fan. My deposit was paid in cash back in May of 2017 after just a conversation when it was little more than a sketch in a notepad. I rolled the dice and got lucky. I know now that I’ll never pre-pay for anything that has a lead time more than my CC company’s time to file a grievance.
I met the Pelfrey’s a few months after purchasing my 4Runner back in 2016, so really they were my introduction into the aftermarket world. We hung out a few times, I visited the shop, so yes, I have personal relationship with them, far more than I have with anyone on this forum.
You’re numbers for the rear bumper alone aren’t off at all, and there are much more orders that need to be filled in and above those aforementioned bumpers. The saving grace is there is a warehouse full of finished product just waiting to be shipped and fulfilled, so it makes sense that I am rooting for them to open again with a new game plan. According to Tyler, the answer will be given to them tomorrow from their potential investor(s).
All the information that I posted was given to me directly from the Pelfrey’s, who advised me not to put myself out here to be possibly roasted just to defend them, but also said it was up to me if I so desired. I honestly don’t care two ways from Friday about what anyone surmises from my post about who I am. All you have to do is look me up and you’ll see. I’m an independent electrical contractor so my info is pretty public as it is. I’m not affiliated with Pelfreybilt as a business, period. I care deeply about them as a family, and honestly, I do care about their customers receiving what they paid for, as I’ve been in that situation more than a few times in business. Trying to get money back through the legal system is a drain, mentally and physiologically. The whole situation sucks, and I said before that I’m not in any way defending their business practice, but I know from talking to them that there is true remorse and regret for a lot of decisions that were made the last 6 months.
I get that remorse and regret don’t get people’s money back, and I’m not here to gain sympathy for them, or to try and shame anyone that’s genuinly pissed off at them for this. I completely understand that sentiment and can respect it. I stand to lose out on product too if they fall through the cracks. Everyone lost in this deal, and the blame lands squarely on their shoulders. I just wanted to bring some of the details that I’ve been given to light to quell some of the more extravagant rumors until they can get a statement out.
mrblah
Senior Member
You sound like some kind of pelfrybilt fanboy.
ChrisJHarney
New member
you forgot the #
RobotTrader
New member
Funny how those who have the product or sat next to the owners over a campfire vouch and say that Pelfrey will deliver. That's easy to say when you have a $3k+ product in your possession because by some magic you got what you paid for in a timeframe you felt was acceptable. Frankly, you are all not in the same boat and I have some choice words for you.
As for me I filed a charge back minutes after I received news. If they survive and end up delivering... great and I will be happy for a small business that can right their ship but I am not waiting and I advise everyone else to be safe with their money because if I was buying today after hearing this I'd take my money elsewhere.
Pelfrey's words and community trust just lost all value. I gave them 100% payment for a product that was built on trust and a delivery date because back then I knew 100% they would give me the product and they failed. I called and emailed after each week passed and never got a response. Now they send an blast saying they need MORE money to keep afloat?
What's happening here is the Titanic effect. The ship is clearing sinking and what I hate most and can't stand is those with product in their possession saying the ship ain't sinking and we simply threw a propeller - sorry you guys don't matter.
I can pretty much say Pelfrey is done for. Imagine all the chargebacks they're going to get. Up to a $1,000,000 if everyone charges back. That could be a headache for the so called "investors" who will have to inject cash to offset the refunds/chargebacks and then some more. Furthermore credit card companies will no longer honor their merchant accounts killing future business. After all this and they still survive how much LONGER will we have to wait for the rear bumpers. Too good to be true.
To me this SCREAMS bankruptcy. If this happens those who paid will lose their money 100%. I'm only writing this today because I got my money back from the Credit card company but there's a chance that can change too!
Apologies in advance if this offends anyone but I speak only in the interest of the fellow 4runner owners and not Pelfrey.
I also wrote this after a nice glass of scotch. If it's not coherent I'm sorry and will edit it later.
As for me I filed a charge back minutes after I received news. If they survive and end up delivering... great and I will be happy for a small business that can right their ship but I am not waiting and I advise everyone else to be safe with their money because if I was buying today after hearing this I'd take my money elsewhere.
Pelfrey's words and community trust just lost all value. I gave them 100% payment for a product that was built on trust and a delivery date because back then I knew 100% they would give me the product and they failed. I called and emailed after each week passed and never got a response. Now they send an blast saying they need MORE money to keep afloat?
What's happening here is the Titanic effect. The ship is clearing sinking and what I hate most and can't stand is those with product in their possession saying the ship ain't sinking and we simply threw a propeller - sorry you guys don't matter.
I can pretty much say Pelfrey is done for. Imagine all the chargebacks they're going to get. Up to a $1,000,000 if everyone charges back. That could be a headache for the so called "investors" who will have to inject cash to offset the refunds/chargebacks and then some more. Furthermore credit card companies will no longer honor their merchant accounts killing future business. After all this and they still survive how much LONGER will we have to wait for the rear bumpers. Too good to be true.
To me this SCREAMS bankruptcy. If this happens those who paid will lose their money 100%. I'm only writing this today because I got my money back from the Credit card company but there's a chance that can change too!
Apologies in advance if this offends anyone but I speak only in the interest of the fellow 4runner owners and not Pelfrey.
I also wrote this after a nice glass of scotch. If it's not coherent I'm sorry and will edit it later.
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I
Icantdrive55
Guest
Well, this is unfortunate......
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/pelfreybilt-information-release.566156/page-9#post-18633060
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/pelfreybilt-information-release.566156/page-9#post-18633060
Soccer13
New member
Looks like they also let go of many if not all of their employees last Wednesday per one of their employees statements on FB recently. It does not look like injection money from invesotrs and then continuing on.
sn_85
Senior Member
Seriously. Investors want to invest in a business that is making money, not one in a financial mess. It's one thing to be back logged and needing an investor to be able to ramp up production. It's another thing entirely to need an investor to keep your business afloat. Sounds like some inner turmoil going where employees are leaving or being fired. Good luck finding an investor with all that going on. Whoever the "investor" is they'll need to have deep pockets to bail them out but then again how many of those are willing to invest in a niche market company that has lost employees?
comtn4x4
Senior Member
I doubt we will see any production coming from them anytime soon.
No Employees = No Business.
It's really a shame but I fear it's going to require litigation to get our monies back.
I almost pulled the trigger on some sliders and a rear bumper a few weeks back. I am glad that I held off. This is a very unfortunate for everyone involved and I hope those that can get their money back via their credit card companies will do so diligently. Such great designs, sad to see them go.
mtchristman
New member
Same here. They said they had front bumpers in stock. Just cudnt get myself to like the design. Glad I didn't do it.
I feel sorry for all the people that have paid them money and don't have anything to show for it. I'm not gonna feel sorry for pelfreybilt. They had a quarter million in pre order money. These kind of deals almost always come down to piss poor money management.
I feel sorry for all the people that have paid them money and don't have anything to show for it. I'm not gonna feel sorry for pelfreybilt. They had a quarter million in pre order money. These kind of deals almost always come down to piss poor money management.
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