*Please Help* Holes in frame rail - pics included

[Blackwatch]

Anyone have any ideas on how to best clean out the frame? Lots of debris up in there.

 

[moshrider3]

I do this type of work for a living and $3500 is not far from where I would charge for something like this. There will be many different opinions as to what you should do. However I would recommended if you do decide to fix it to fix it properly this time so you do not have to keep bringing it back to be fixed. The most concerning hole to me would be the one which looks to be on the rear bumper reinforcement. If it’s rotted behind the plastic bumper cover it would need replaced. I worked on an 08 last month and it required dropping the fuel tank and spare tire to get to the problem areas. The front frames near the control arms are very common. The safetcap frame sections are the way to go in my opinion unless you do a full frame swap. However the rear bumper is only available from Toyota as far as I know. The best way to clear the frame of the silt you’re talking about is when it is repaired. If you go to a good company they will clean it out when preparing the frame for the new sections of frame.

The possible reason for the safetcap recommendation on the driver side is the people who work on vehicle frames know, if you’re going to fix it, fix it properly the first time. The hole may only be the size of a quarter but once it is being worked on it generally expands, being as the vehicle has been exposed to road salt for many years.

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[4runherpow]

Good luck on the repairs, I hope it goes well!

As far as 3-4 years down the road and dumping $40-$50K into a total restoration, I would instead invest that money into another 4th Gens that has a good frame and low miles for about half that much money with plenty left over to do whatever upgrades you want....or for that much money you can get a low mileage 5th Gen.

5th gens suck. Owned a brand new one. Went back to the 4th gen after.

And totally agree on a new frame one. However, ideal would be to replace this rigs frame - 180k, tons of service done, she drives amazing. I go buy another one and odds are I have to do all these services again and I end up net-net and it’s a wash. And with a rig I know nothing about. This one’s dependable. I know her. Can’t underestimate that as a store of value.

 

[4runherpow]

I do this type of work for a living and $3500 is not far from where I would charge for something like this. There will be many different opinions as to what you should do. However I would recommended if you do decide to fix it to fix it properly this time so you do not have to keep bringing it back to be fixed. The most concerning hole to me would be the one which looks to be on the rear bumper reinforcement. If it’s rotted behind the plastic bumper cover it would need replaced. I worked on an 08 last month and it required dropping the fuel tank and spare tire to get to the problem areas. The front frames near the control arms are very common. The safetcap frame sections are the way to go in my opinion unless you do a full frame swap. However the rear bumper is only available from Toyota as far as I know. The best way to clear the frame of the silt you’re talking about is when it is repaired. If you go to a good company they will clean it out when preparing the frame for the new sections of frame.

The possible reason for the safetcap recommendation on the driver side is the people who work on vehicle frames know, if you’re going to fix it, fix it properly the first time. The hole may only be the size of a quarter but once it is being worked on it generally expands, being as the vehicle has been exposed to road salt for many years.

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Thanks for the insights. Why would you say the rear frame hole under the rear bumper is more dangerous than the front A-arm hole that runs the seem?

 

[4runherpow]

Any opinions on using adhesive bonding to fix small-medium sized holes? There’s some new information out there on the strength of new adhesives.

Any thought or prior use of these types of fixes?

 

[moshrider3]

Thanks for the insights. Why would you say the rear frame hole under the rear bumper is more dangerous than the front A-arm hole that runs the seem?

I wouldn’t say more concerning in terms of it being more dangerous, just more expensive to fix. The reinforcement is $400 from Toyota and it isn’t a slide over frame section. The old reinforcement has to be carefully removed and the new one has to be put in, which is usually more costly. If you have it repaired I would recommend fluid filming the insides of the frame and the outsides


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[moshrider3]

Any opinions on using adhesive bonding to fix small-medium sized holes? There’s some new information out there on the strength of new adhesives.

Any thought or prior use of these types of fixes?

I can’t imagine they would have much impact resistance if you get into a collision


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[04rnr]

To everyone:

Any suggestions on a quality frame/weld shop in Northern, VA that would do this job RIGHT. Hopefully at a reasonable price. I want her to last for a long time. Greatly appreciate everyones support. I love 4th gen owners. We're all in this together!!


[MENTION=1857]fourwd1[/MENTION]

I appreciate the insights. I want to have this fixed right. The guy I took it to showed me some examples in his shop of their work. It looked really good. He said they charge $3-4k, however thats because they take off a ton of stuff to do it right. The new coating looked like a thin Rhino Liner over the whole frame.

I guess my issue is a) I would like these two holes fixed before the winter so they don't get worse (and peace of mind), and b) the cost to do the whole coating is pretty expensive and not sure I can afford that yet.


[MENTION=68364]04rnr[/MENTION]

Do you have a link to these items? Thanks

Most auto parts store carry Fluid Film but here's the link for Amazon so ya know what it looks like Amazon.com: MowerPartsGroup Lubricant/Corrosion Inhibitor, 11.75 oz. : Automotive
.
And here's a link to the "wand" that you may have to buy online to get inside of the frame Amazon.com: DU-MOST Aerosol Can Extension Wand Kit, 24" Long Flexible Clear PVC Hose with 360-Degree 1/8" Diameter Brass Spray Nozzle, Fits Fluid Film Rust and Corrosion Protection Aerosols, Reusable (Pack of 1) : Automotive
.
And here's a video to show ya and get ya started, theres lots of videos How to: Prevent Rust on Vehicle Body with Fluid Film Aerosol:Toyota 80 Series Land Cruiser - YouTube

 

[4runherpow]

Thanks for all the insights and help. The rear bumper area definitely has some holes in it. I’m not sure under the fuel tank as I haven’t dropped this area.

Does anyone have pictures of the areas I should look for with the fuel tank dropped? It would be good to see what we’re talking about.

In the meantime I had someone fix the front hole on the passenger side near the control arm. The guy who fixed it said the drivers side was only the size of a quarter and wasn’t overly concerning to him.

He also welded in new bump stop brackets in the rear. Both he basically rescued off. He plugged the rear holes with a patch job for now and por-15 the entire frame. He also put thicker coating around the front rails where the repair was to protect it.

I never saw the weld work on the front but I saw the rear brackets. Could of probably done a better job wire wheeling as the por-15 looks like it was put over some flaking areas. We did not drop the tank of fox the gas strap.

We left it at next summer we’ll take the rear bumper off and do the tank. He thought the skid plate and other strap is fine to hold the tank for now.

I paid $900 for the front weld, rear brackets weld, Por-15 and undercoating. He said a couple of the rear brake lines were getting prett corroded.

 

[4runherpow]

Welcome back to the gift that keeps on giving. Yes, our good friend Rusty the rust bucket has reemerged.

I paid a guy last year (almost exactly a year ago) to fix an A-arm rust hole and por-15 the frame. Unfortunately, the gentlemen did not take his time removing the rust and, therefore, the por-15 coating has not held up or stopped the progression.

So, here's my new hole. It's an interesting hole. Because this hole is double sided. It is located inline with the front cross-member that is directly under the front doors. The hole is on the outside of the passenger side frame (where the door is) and there is an inner hole that can only be viewed through the outside hole. This is because the inner hole is directly inside the cavity of the cross member, so the cross member metal is still good but the space that occupies the inside of the cross member, on the inner frame has a hole. If that makes sense.

Yes, a mouthful and hard describe, but take a look. My welder from last year hasn't responded about fixing my new hole. Im worried that the inner hole would be hard to address given its location and proximity to the cross member. My guess is to cut the outer hole fairly large as to fit tools inside the frame to address cutting out the inner hole, without compromising the integrity of the cross member.

Very confusing to me but I'm sure a professional welder sees a path to victory, hopefully.

 

[rdruss]

Welcome back to the gift that keeps on giving. Yes, our good friend Rusty the rust bucket has reemerged.

I paid a guy last year (almost exactly a year ago) to fix an A-arm rust hole and por-15 the frame. Unfortunately, the gentlemen did not take his time removing the rust and, therefore, the por-15 coating has not held up or stopped the progression.

So, here's my new hole. It's an interesting hole. Because this hole is double sided. It is located inline with the front cross-member that is directly under the front doors. The hole is on the outside of the passenger side frame (where the door is) and there is an inner hole that can only be viewed through the outside hole. This is because the inner hole is directly inside the cavity of the cross member, so the cross member metal is still good but the space that occupies the inside of the cross member, on the inner frame has a hole. If that makes sense.

Yes, a mouthful and hard describe, but take a look. My welder from last year hasn't responded about fixing my new hole. Im worried that the inner hole would be hard to address given its location and proximity to the cross member. My guess is to cut the outer hole fairly large as to fit tools inside the frame to address cutting out the inner hole, without compromising the integrity of the cross member.

Very confusing to me but I'm sure a professional welder sees a path to victory, hopefully.

If you have a V8 (maybe V6 too) the AC condensate line drips right on top of the frame rail inside the engine compartment, passenger side, and the condensate collects right under the passenger side front door and drips on the ground. While doing that it rusted your frame just as you are seeing, many have reported this issue. Reroute your condensate line away from the frame.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

Im generally not an alarmist with rust, and think most people make too big a deal of little rust spots and surface rust. However, if youre having to weld now multiple areas of the frame, it might be time to let her go. I agree, probably possible to fix, but how many other spots are waiting to develop (radiator support, the rear cross member under the bumper cover, above the spare tire)

 

[4runherpow]

If you have a V8 (maybe V6 too) the AC condensate line drips right on top of the frame rail inside the engine compartment, passenger side, and the condensate collects right under the passenger side front door and drips on the ground. While doing that it rusted your frame just as you are seeing, many have reported this issue. Reroute your condensate line away from the frame.

You know, I should of listened to your advice last year about the AC line. I thought (in my head) the area that has the issue was under the A-arm, which I repaired and coated which was my justification for being lazy and not rerouting.

Now after rereading your post, I realize you Cleary said under the passenger door area, which big surprise, is where the hole is.

Any opinions Rdruss on the inner hole? Do you think this is common and does it complicate matters? Thanks

 

[4runherpow]

Im generally not an alarmist with rust, and think most people make too big a deal of little rust spots and surface rust. However, if youre having to weld now multiple areas of the frame, it might be time to let her go. I agree, probably possible to fix, but how many other spots are waiting to develop (radiator support, the rear cross member under the bumper cover, above the spare tire)

Yea, I know. But I've done the calculus and to get a new (unknown) rig that is even in (stated) good condition, I feel as if all the good work done on mine will be for naught. However, your point is well taken and perhaps the solution down the road (if keeping her) would be a frame swap. Sounds daunting but I've heard its been done sparingly with good results.

Who knows.

I did check around for additional holes and this seems to be the only "real" new one that I can find, now a year later from when I originally posted. And to Rdruss's point - should of rerouted the AC line. That hole sure grew quick though. Wasn't there last year.

Any body have this exact pair of holes? Little concerned its proximity to the cross member. But others with large holes have commented in the past that my holes are small and to stop spazzing out. They may be right.

 

[MikeinNH67]

My guess is to cut the outer hole fairly large as to fit tools inside the frame to address cutting out the inner hole, without compromising the integrity of the cross member.

I repair holes in mine every year in the fall, inspection time. I had them in the strangest spots this year and think if next year is worse then it may be time to replace my rig.

What I quoted above is what I would do. That outer hole is going to end up pretty large once the rust is all cut out. Hopefully the other side is not as big and a plate can be welded on the inside before the outer plate is welded on.

I've stopped trying to mitigate my truck from rusting as it seems the damage started before I owned it and it will just keep rusting from the inside out. Salty sand gets trapped inside and does it's dirty deeds unless you get it out early on which, from what I see, means drilling some holes in certain spots for flushing. It sux that this happens on an otherwise solid vehicle. You could look into the SafeTCap kits.

4 Runner 2003-2009 4th Gen Archives - autorust.com

 

[rdruss]

Yep, this is definetly the biggest problem 4Runner owners face who live in the rust belt, it is an ongoing never ending job.

 

[4runherpow]

Yep, this is definetly the biggest problem 4Runner owners face who live in the rust belt, it is an ongoing never ending job.

Got under again today. That hole has a top, bottom, and inside parts of the frame rail. And it’s all around that cross member so I have no idea how they would patch that because that cross member is welding right there.

I feel as if I go forward with this rig I have to replace the frame because this problem will NEVER go away. I thought I saw somewhere a dealership that did a swap on a Seqouia and the owner said it wasn’t too bad.

Anyone think it’s worth it? What’s the value of V8 limited 197k that mechanically has been VERY well maintained, but with frame issues?

 

[MikeinNH67]

Anyone think it’s worth it? What’s the value of V8 limited 197k that mechanically has been VERY well maintained, but with frame issues?

Only you can determine that. How easy is it to find a good one? What shape is the rest of the truck etc. Seeing you must be in a rust belt area, almost every bolt will break and the brake lines will probably need to be replaced. I don't think it would be worth it on mine because I have holes forming under the rocker covers plus other things that will just be too costly to repair to keep it on the road.

BTW, there's a Youtube video of someone doing the swap. Should be easily found.

 

[rdruss]

Got under again today. That hole has a top, bottom, and inside parts of the frame rail. And it’s all around that cross member so I have no idea how they would patch that because that cross member is welding right there.

I feel as if I go forward with this rig I have to replace the frame because this problem will NEVER go away. I thought I saw somewhere a dealership that did a swap on a Seqouia and the owner said it wasn’t too bad.

Anyone think it’s worth it? What’s the value of V8 limited 197k that mechanically has been VERY well maintained, but with frame issues?

I would say the frame damage hurts the value substantially. I would check into a repair. Just takes more plating and more welding and someone who is capable and willing to do it. My repair cost $1000, but if the rest of runner is good like mine, it's worth it.