please help me? loss all accessory power and engine don't turn over on my 4runner

[CommanderDave]

Rain let up enough for me to get back out there.

Used test light. Got a good ground. Tested probe in the power socked of interior fuse block. Lit up.

Using same ground, introduce probe through insulation of white wire feeding the ignition switch. Probe did not light up. Move it around and pushed a bit deeper just to confirm good contact. No light.

Went back to exterior fuse block. Established ground with test light directly to battery. 40a am1 fuse. Does not have a test hole like you were describing for blade fuse. Pulled fuse, and tested the legs in the socket. Left 'leg' lit up the test light. Right 'leg' did not (expected).

So, if I', reading the wire diagram correctly, and using my fledgling knowledge of all of this properly, can I surmise that I have a break in an actual wire somewhere between the exterior fuse block, and the ignition switch?

I bought a Hayne's manual while I was out today to get to wiring diagrams. The only thing showing between the exterior fuse block and the ignition switch, is a junction to the starter relay (which is housed in the exterior fuse block if I'm reading this correctly).

 

[TheDurk]

The rain has returned, and has run be back in. I have the trim pieces removed to get back to the ignition switch. I went out earlier and purchased a test light, so I can perform the tests as requested (seemed like a handy thing to have in the tool box anyway).

Do I need to be concerned about the airbag? If so, disabling it seems pretty straight forward...disconnect battery...wait minimum of 2 minutes...access yellow plug on underside of steering column and disconnect. From that point, reconnect battery to perform the tests you have outlined...making sure to re-connect airbag with battery disconnected.

Sorry, I guess I'm a little keyed up with the explosives over my head :flame:

I don't think you want to do it that way. If you power up with the driver airbag disconnected, that will set an SRS code. Clearing it will mean a trip to the dealer and $$$. I don't think those clear themselves. I know on A BMW they do not.

I'd power down the whole truck to safe the airbag, access the key switch and get it to where you can work on it without disturbing anything else, and then power up just for the test. If you are not comfortable with that, just do a resistance test between Pin 2 and Pin 4 on the key switch with key at ignition ON and battery disconnected. The key switch does not carry any airbag circuits, but I understand your concern. I'm 90% certain the issue IS the key switch, so the safest way would be to completely remove it and do the resistance test off the truck. It will have to come off anyway. That will remove the remote possibility that the meter voltage could trigger the airbag. Depends on your level of paranoia.

I'm sure that test light will be well worth it, once you are comfortable with how it works.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Rain let up enough for me to get back out there.

Used test light. Got a good ground. Tested probe in the power socked of interior fuse block. Lit up.

Using same ground, introduce probe through insulation of white wire feeding the ignition switch. Probe did not light up. Move it around and pushed a bit deeper just to confirm good contact. No light.

Went back to exterior fuse block. Established ground with test light directly to battery. 40a am1 fuse. Does not have a test hole like you were describing for blade fuse. Pulled fuse, and tested the legs in the socket. Left 'leg' lit up the test light. Right 'leg' did not (expected).

So, if I', reading the wire diagram correctly, and using my fledgling knowledge of all of this properly, can I surmise that I have a break in an actual wire somewhere between the exterior fuse block, and the ignition switch?

I bought a Hayne's manual while I was out today to get to wiring diagrams. The only thing showing between the exterior fuse block and the ignition switch, is a junction to the starter relay (which is housed in the exterior fuse block if I'm reading this correctly).

Yes the white wire is a straight shot from the fuse block and the switch and the splice point is in the fuse block. I would pull the connector at the switch since you are already there and make SURE it does not have power. If it doesn't, pull up the engine bay fuse block and check the white wire where it comes out the bottom. I doubt the wire broke anywhere else.

 

[TheDurk]

Yes the white wire is a straight shot from the fuse block and the switch and the splice point is in the fuse block. I would pull the connector at the switch since you are already there and make SURE it does not have power. If it doesn't, pull up the engine bay fuse block and check the white wire where it comes out the bottom. I doubt the wire broke anywhere else.

Glad to see you're back. I took over so Cmdr. D here wouldn't have a chance to rest. Hope you don't mind. Back to my popcorn. Getting close here.

Just for fun, I would also check Pin 5 of the starter relay for 12V+, just to further narrow our focus. That will confirm AM1 fuse is passing power and that fault is beyond the internal splice..

 

[IBallEngineer]

Glad to see you're back. I took over so Cmdr. D here wouldn't have a chance to rest. Hope you don't mind. Back to my popcorn. Getting close here.

Just for fun, I would also check Pin 5 of the starter relay for 12V+, just to further narrow our focus. That will confirm AM1 fuse is passing power and that fault is beyond the internal splice..

No I never mind when you chime in. Our diagnosis is almost always the same anyway. I've been busy with work, and trying to start a new endeavor on my own so I end with huge gaps where I don't stay connected to the forum. I also am working on a street rod p/u project I started about 10 years ago. It has been sitting the last 8 years or so, but my wife got me motivated to get back on it. Boy does she regret that!

 

[CommanderDave]

Thanks to both of you for helping out with this. This is becoming a weekend project with the short daylight days, and long work days. I will test as you both have recommended, and report back results.

Thanks again guys!

 

[CommanderDave]

Update:

Have been on vacation all week. Today was '4Runner day'. Diagnosis to this point has narrowed problem down to the wire running between fuse block and ignition switch. Today, I pulled the fuse block apart. Holy Crap!!! I can't see how you guys navigate that mess of wires with any degree of confidence! I knew the wire I needed was white without a tracer, and I knew the size it should be. I finally found a wire that met the description. I snaked a pair of needle nose pliers in the mess of wires, and grasped the suspect wire. I 'jiggled' it (yes...technical term :eyebrows: ), and it did not feel loose.

At a loss on what to do next, I was contemplating whether I should run a hot wire from battery, and splice it into the ignition switch, or surrender and have it towed to a mechanic while I was putting everything back together. I had everything together, and was about to turn to go into the house to contemplate my options, when I decided on a whim to try to start again..even though I 'knew' it wouldn't start. Turned the key, and to my surprise, she fired right up!

Relieved that 'jiggling' a wire seems to have fixed my problem, disturbed that a wire that did not appear to be loose to begin with was my problem.

Thanks for walking me through the diagnosis on this one guys!

 

[TheDurk]

Update:

Have been on vacation all week. Today was '4Runner day'. Diagnosis to this point has narrowed problem down to the wire running between fuse block and ignition switch. Today, I pulled the fuse block apart. Holy Crap!!! I can't see how you guys navigate that mess of wires with any degree of confidence! I knew the wire I needed was white without a tracer, and I knew the size it should be. I finally found a wire that met the description. I snaked a pair of needle nose pliers in the mess of wires, and grasped the suspect wire. I 'jiggled' it (yes...technical term :eyebrows: ), and it did not feel loose.

At a loss on what to do next, I was contemplating whether I should run a hot wire from battery, and splice it into the ignition switch, or surrender and have it towed to a mechanic while I was putting everything back together. I had everything together, and was about to turn to go into the house to contemplate my options, when I decided on a whim to try to start again..even though I 'knew' it wouldn't start. Turned the key, and to my surprise, she fired right up!

Relieved that 'jiggling' a wire seems to have fixed my problem, disturbed that a wire that did not appear to be loose to begin with was my problem.

Thanks for walking me through the diagnosis on this one guys!

I'm guessing the defect is inside the key switch and 'jiggling' got a loose contact back where it should be. I would not call that a permanent fix, but now you know where to start if it happens again.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Update:

Have been on vacation all week. Today was '4Runner day'. Diagnosis to this point has narrowed problem down to the wire running between fuse block and ignition switch. Today, I pulled the fuse block apart. Holy Crap!!! I can't see how you guys navigate that mess of wires with any degree of confidence! I knew the wire I needed was white without a tracer, and I knew the size it should be. I finally found a wire that met the description. I snaked a pair of needle nose pliers in the mess of wires, and grasped the suspect wire. I 'jiggled' it (yes...technical term :eyebrows: ), and it did not feel loose.

At a loss on what to do next, I was contemplating whether I should run a hot wire from battery, and splice it into the ignition switch, or surrender and have it towed to a mechanic while I was putting everything back together. I had everything together, and was about to turn to go into the house to contemplate my options, when I decided on a whim to try to start again..even though I 'knew' it wouldn't start. Turned the key, and to my surprise, she fired right up!

Relieved that 'jiggling' a wire seems to have fixed my problem, disturbed that a wire that did not appear to be loose to begin with was my problem.

Thanks for walking me through the diagnosis on this one guys!

Well congratulations on getting Jiggy with it! It would be good to revisit that connection and really make sure it's solid. So much time had gone by I forgot what we were trying to fix. Thanks for following up to know we were on the correct track!

arty:

 

[snivilous]

On the GAUGE and AM1, did you say pass because you did a resistance check, or you checked in place for presence of 12V+? Please do the second, as the presence of power at a certain point in the circuit is much more info than just whether the fuse is dead.

I assume you did a resistance check as you talk about pulling fuses and that is not what we need at this point. That's why I said BOTH ENDS of the GAUGE fuse. It's looking like you have a key switch issue and I can't track that down doing resistance checks on fuses. The GAUGE fuse needs to be checked for 12V+ with ignition on.

Does your blinker work? I suspect not.

[MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION] [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION]

I have this exact same problem and have been trying to chase it down. Engine runs fine, but there's no power to anything the ignition seems to control (blinkers, gauges, starter won't activate, etc.). I replaced the ignition switch just now, the old one didn't seem to test correctly but it didn't fix anything.

I just retested my AM1 and AM2 fuses, AM2 has 12V, AM1 is weird though. AM1 has 12V if I use my multimeter between AM1 (and the left, which I assume is the power in, for the fuse) and + on the battery. So in other words, AM1 seems to be grounding out but the fuse isn't burned (like I said, input side is where the grounding is coming from). If I use my multimeter between AM1 and ground/negative on the battery, I get like 0.71V. Does this mean there is a short somewhere inside the fuse box itself causing AM1 to ground out?

 

[IBallEngineer]

[MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION] [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION]

I have this exact same problem and have been trying to chase it down. Engine runs fine, but there's no power to anything the ignition seems to control (blinkers, gauges, starter won't activate, etc.). I replaced the ignition switch just now, the old one didn't seem to test correctly but it didn't fix anything.

I just retested my AM1 and AM2 fuses, AM2 has 12V, AM1 is weird though. AM1 has 12V if I use my multimeter between AM1 (and the left, which I assume is the power in, for the fuse) and + on the battery. So in other words, AM1 seems to be grounding out but the fuse isn't burned (like I said, input side is where the grounding is coming from). If I use my multimeter between AM1 and ground/negative on the battery, I get like 0.71V. Does this mean there is a short somewhere inside the fuse box itself causing AM1 to ground out?

Alright, so testing for voltage you have .7, which is essentially nothing. Testing for ground you show ground, but that isn't necessarily a short. It could be giving you a ground through an activated relay, ie defog or tail.

Also if it WAS shorted, it would blow the 120A Alt fuse, and potentially 4 other fuses. AM1 also supplies power to the Starter Relay, if you pull the relay and have power at one of the terminals(5), with the ignition off then that fuse is good. Since you say the engine runs, I'm thinking this isn't the problem. However you aren't reading voltage, and you need to check both sides, I don't know off hand which side is fed. If you show no voltage on either side, and the 120A fuse is good, you need to check the wires IN the fuse block.

Eliminate weirdness, you can't have a good fuse if it has any power on one side and not the other. Even better to test with it removed if you can.

 

[snivilous]

Alright, so testing for voltage you have .7, which is essentially nothing. Testing for ground you show ground, but that isn't necessarily a short. It could be giving you a ground through an activated relay, ie defog or tail.

Also if it WAS shorted, it would blow the 120A Alt fuse, and potentially 4 other fuses. AM1 also supplies power to the Starter Relay, if you pull the relay and have power at one of the terminals(5), with the ignition off then that fuse is good. Since you say the engine runs, I'm thinking this isn't the problem. However you aren't reading voltage, and you need to check both sides, I don't know off hand which side is fed. If you show no voltage on either side, and the 120A fuse is good, you need to check the wires IN the fuse block.

Eliminate weirdness, you can't have a good fuse if it has any power on one side and not the other. Even better to test with it removed if you can.

Got it! AM1 wasn't getting any power like you said. Pulled the alternator fuse even though it appeared totally fine and it didn't have continuity. Dropped a new ALT fuse in and she fired right up! I've shorted out the alternator on my shock cage before, I should of thought to just check it but it was visually fine so didn't think anything of it. Thanks for the help!