Possible 5 speed swap input appreciated

[ChildrenOfBodom]

First of all thanks for taking a look at my thread. Your about as close to an expert on swaps as there can be.

Do you remember exactly how you wired the add switch for 4h. Do yoh have any diagrams of your wiring.

I did not document my wiring, I mainly used the template I had (AKA the wiring harness of the other truck). I took each whole wire out of the wire loom and inserted the pins into my plugs and everything (my truck, as it was 2WD, did not have any wiring for ADD in the slightest). Your 4x4 has existing wiring for your ADD so it's probably as easy as wiring the 4H sensor to trigger the ADD relay (connecting the ADD relay to the 4H switch using the wires from the 4WD push button).

Here is a diagram of the switches - for the 2000 SR5 4WD 5-spd - you can see L4 on right, ADD switch in middle, and 4WD (4H) on left. I did not wire N to the AT/P light.

 

[TheDurk]

^^^^It's not that easy for him because the Auto trans ADD is controlled by an elaborate 4wd ECU with many inputs from a trans he doesn't have and the TC switches don't line up as L4 and 4wd. That's why I suggested installing the simple 5-speed relay and wiring the ADD the same way you did.

 

[zgensler31]

^^^^It's not that easy for him because the Auto trans ADD is controlled by an elaborate 4wd ECU with many inputs from a trans he doesn't have and the TC switches don't line up as L4 and 4wd. That's why I suggested installing the simple 5-speed relay and wiring the ADD the same way you did.

i can do that if that's the easiest way. I've just never had to wire up a relay so if you could kind of dumb it down. lol.

 

[TheDurk]

This should be all you need to wire the clutch cancel and clutch pedal switches. They essentially go in place of the Park/Neutral switch on the slushbox setup. Those two B-W wires that exit stage right go to the same place, so use the one on your A/T park neutral switch. Black wire from P/N switch goes to the pedal switch instead. Wire clutch cancel as shown.

 

[TheDurk]

Then there is the cruise control connection. Apparently that is a separate switch on the clutch (news to me--I thought there was only one), and also goes in place of the auto trans shifter wiring:

 

[TheDurk]

i can do that if that's the easiest way. I've just never had to wire up a relay so if you could kind of dumb it down. lol.

Hey, it's only five wires. You would place the ADD relay in the pax kick panel close to the 4wd ECU that is already there. Most of the wires are there and have the same colors. I can do it wire-by-wire with you but first you have to decide how much of the auto harness and ecu you are keeping. Making the engine run is the first priority--this clutch/ADD stuff can be done either way. But the connections will change depending on how you do it.

I don't want to advise you on that engine/ecu stuff as there are people who have done it out there and I have not. But I can help you with this clutch/ADD stuff as I am pretty familiar with the circuitry.

 

[zgensler31]

Hey, it's only five wires. You would place the ADD relay in the pax kick panel close to the 4wd ECU that is already there. Most of the wires are there and have the same colors. I can do it wire-by-wire with you but first you have to decide how much of the auto harness and ecu you are keeping. Making the engine run is the first priority--this clutch/ADD stuff can be done either way. But the connections will change depending on how you do it.

I don't want to advise you on that engine/ecu stuff as there are people who have done it out there and I have not. But I can help you with this clutch/ADD stuff as I am pretty familiar with the circuitry.

Awesome man, your a life saver. Seriously. Tommorrow evening I should be able to get motor and trans out, and get detailed photos of any connections you need to see.

If its just five wires, I think ill go with the automatic harness and the manual ecu. Making sure it starts, and then we can figure this add stuff out.

But thanks again. I have a feeling im gonna owe you a case of beer by the emd of this.

 

[danthemanx07]

Awesome man, your a life saver. Seriously. Tommorrow evening I should be able to get motor and trans out, and get detailed photos of any connections you need to see.

If its just five wires, I think ill go with the automatic harness and the manual ecu. Making sure it starts, and then we can figure this add stuff out.

But thanks again. I have a feeling im gonna owe you a case of beer by the emd of this.

Did you check the ecu and see whether it matches the harness? I posted some pics in this thread of the different ecus I have. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/155666-swimmerboy2112s-build-thread-6.html

As for wiring the clutch - there are only 4 wires. They all will come off of your auto tranny wiring plug, and you will ahve to run them up tot he cab. The wiring for this should be VERY simple once you identify which wires are which on you transmission plug. You are going to need a wiring diagram for this, or you may be able to match colors and/or plug positions up between my thread and swimmerboys. A wiring diagram from your year would be the best option though as there were changes from year to year it seems.

Anyway, if Durk can get your ADD working, I am sure you can get the clutch figured out between my threads and swimmerboy's.

FYI - it is NOT going to start until you figure out the clutch depress/neutral safety switch wiring first...

 

[TheDurk]

Did you check the ecu and see whether it matches the harness? I posted some pics in this thread of the different ecus I have. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/155666-swimmerboy2112s-build-thread-6.html

As for wiring the clutch - there are only 4 wires. They all will come off of your auto tranny wiring plug, and you will ahve to run them up tot he cab. [I think we can get them all in the pax kick panel where that plug connection goes, but I haven't done it.] The wiring for this should be VERY simple once you identify which wires are which on you transmission plug. You are going to need a wiring diagram for this, or you may be able to match colors and/or plug positions up between my thread and swimmerboys. A wiring diagram from your year would be the best option though as there were changes from year to year it seems.

Anyway, if Durk can get your ADD working, I am sure you can get the clutch figured out between my threads and swimmerboy's.



FYI - it is NOT going to start until you figure out the clutch depress/neutral safety switch wiring first...

My comment in red.
The temp fix for this is to short the black and black/white wires to the neutral safety switch if you keep the auto harness.

If you go with the manual, you will need to jump Pins 1 and 3 of the 3E connector that goes to the dash by the steering tube (two black wires).

While I am pretty sure the manual trans/clutch/ADD wiring is the same for the years involved, danx is absolutely right about needing the exact EWD's and all plug pin-outs for BOTH years if you are switching harnesses, ECU's or both. You pretty much have to go wire-by-wire through maybe 120 wires on six or seven ECU plugs to be sure everything sets up. You may only have to repin six or seven, but be prepared for some serious analytical work.

 

[danthemanx07]

My comment in red.
The temp fix for this is to short the black and black/white wires to the neutral safety switch if you keep the auto harness.

If you go with the manual, you will need to jump Pins 1 and 3 of the 3E connector that goes to the dash by the steering tube (two black wires).

While I am pretty sure the manual trans/clutch/ADD wiring is the same for the years involved, danx is absolutely right about needing the exact EWD's for BOTH years if you are switching harnesses, ECU's or both. You pretty much have to go wire-by-wire through maybe 120 wires on six or seven ECU plugs to be sure everything sets up. You may only have to repin six or seven, but be prepared for some serious analytical work.

Interesting. I never thought of getting at those wires where they ran up to the cab. Haha. They were just dangling there in from of my after I clipped the auto transmission plug off, so I worked from there. I guess what I meant that to read is that he is going to have to figure out which wires he needs to short, otherwise it is not going to start regardless of what ECU he plugs in.

As for the ECU in my 1998, just between ECUs of the SAME year there were maybe 8-10 wires that needed to be re-pinned. It is easy to do, but you have to have the information. You could try to plug and play it, but you run the risk of frying your ecu.

 

[TheDurk]

Interesting. I never thought of getting at those wires where they ran up to the cab. Haha. They were just dangling there in from of my after I clipped the auto transmission plug off, so I worked from there. I guess what I meant that to read is that he is going to have to figure out which wires he needs to short, otherwise it is not going to start regardless of what ECU he plugs in.

As for the ECU in my 1998, just between ECUs of the SAME year there were maybe 8-10 wires that needed to be re-pinned. It is easy to do, but you have to have the information. You could try to plug and play it, but you run the risk of frying your ecu.

I said 'may only have to repin six or seven'; it definitely could be many more going '96 to '98. That was just a guess at a best case swap. 8-10 is no surprise for the same year. I wasn't arguing with you--I have all kinds of respect for anyone who gets this done. There are lots of ways to skin the cat when it comes to wiring.

 

[danthemanx07]

I said 'may only have to repin six or seven'; it definitely could be many more going '96 to '98. That was just a guess at a best case swap. 8-10 is no surprise for the same year. I wasn't arguing with you--I have all kinds of respect for anyone who gets this done. There are lots of ways to skin the cat when it comes to wiring.

Haha. No worries. :cheers: I didn't think you were, I was trying to impress the importance of your point on the OP and reinforce your advice to secure a wiring manual. We often take for granted with the 3rd gen that the parts are interchangeable across years and variations. This is one case where that is not true.

 

[zgensler31]

Did you check the ecu and see whether it matches the harness? I posted some pics in this thread of the different ecus I have. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/155666-swimmerboy2112s-build-thread-6.html

As for wiring the clutch - there are only 4 wires. They all will come off of your auto tranny wiring plug, and you will ahve to run them up tot he cab. The wiring for this should be VERY simple once you identify which wires are which on you transmission plug. You are going to need a wiring diagram for this, or you may be able to match colors and/or plug positions up between my thread and swimmerboys. A wiring diagram from your year would be the best option though as there were changes from year to year it seems.

Anyway, if Durk can get your ADD working, I am sure you can get the clutch figured out between my threads and swimmerboy's.

FYI - it is NOT going to start until you figure out the clutch depress/neutral safety switch wiring first...

I have confirmed that the ecu will plug into the auto harness m I didn't look too close at wire colors though....

Once I identify the wire colors on my auto trans plug, would the same wire colors be in the cab that I could tap into. Letting me use the manual harness?

This would greatly reduce the number of pins to check and possibly change, as it would only be the plug or two that go to the interior harness.

 

[TheDurk]

I have confirmed that the ecu will plug into the auto harness m I didn't look too close at wire colors though....

Once I identify the wire colors on my auto trans plug, would the same wire colors be in the cab that I could tap into. Letting me use the manual harness?

Any wire you need WILL be there somewhere if you have fully matched the ECU plugs and other truckside plugs (should be one or two of those to look at, too). The color is PROBABLY the same for the ones we are talking about, but I can't confirm without having the EWD's for both years available to me. If you have them, you should post them. If you don't have them, listen to me and Danx and spend the $15 or whatever and go on TIS for a day and GET them. You will be happy you did.

 

[danthemanx07]

I have confirmed that the ecu will plug into the auto harness m I didn't look too close at wire colors though....

Once I identify the wire colors on my auto trans plug, would the same wire colors be in the cab that I could tap into. Letting me use the manual harness?

Yeah... Better cross your fingers if you plug in that manual ecu and fire it up... The only ill effect of running the auto ECU is going to be the CEL will stay on. If it were me, I would run like that until you figure out what pins you need to rearrange on the wiring harness to mate up to your manual ECU.

What year is the manual ecu again?

The only relevance the auto tranny wiring harness has is determining which wires to jump for the neutral safety switch. What you do with those wires really has no bearing on what you decide to do about the use of the ECU unless you are trying something fancy. I think you need to go back and either read some more threads on this topic of get a wiring diagram to understand what you are trying to accomplish here.

*To get it running, ALL YOU NEED TO DO is close the neutral safety switch circuit* BUT to do this, you need to know which wires on the auto tranny plug complete that circuit.

I seriously ran my auto ecu for 3 years before I finally swapped in a manual ecu. So, I repeat - you do not need to f- with the ECU to get it running. All fooling with the ECU will get you is no CEL light. This may matter for you - it did not matter for me.

 

[zgensler31]

Haha. No worries. :cheers: I didn't think you were, I was trying to impress the importance of your point on the OP and reinforce your advice to secure a wiring manual. We often take for granted with the 3rd gen that the parts are interchangeable across years and variations. This is one case where that is not true.

Do you have a link where I could get these? I remember a place on ttora that you could get a one day pass and download what you need.

 

[danthemanx07]

Do you have a link where I could get these? I remember a place on ttora that you could get a one day pass and download what you need.

I have not personally used it before, but here is the link.

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/resources/jsp/t3logout.jsp?TYPE=33554433&REALMOID=06-0009f642-fda3-127f-9f80-834dcda0304d&GUID=&SMAUTHREASON=0&METHOD=GET&SMAGENTNAME=$SM$0ke%2f1rPwNo%2bATFOoa4V7MlCEslYblIe%2fVHwwB%2fLFYB6QVLUESlkvixFs8CBvmEN3&TARGET=$SM$https%3a%2f%2ftechinfo%2etoyota%2ecom%2f

 

[zgensler31]

Yeah... Better cross your fingers if you plug in that manual ecu and fire it up... The only ill effect of running the auto ECU is going to be the CEL will stay on. If it were me, I would run like that until you figure out what pins you need to rearrange on the wiring harness to mate up to your manual ECU.

What year is the manual ecu again?

The only relevance the auto tranny wiring harness has is determining which wires to jump for the neutral safety switch. What you do with those wires really has no bearing on what you decide to do about the use of the ECU unless you are trying something fancy. I think you need to go back and either read some more threads on this topic of get a wiring diagram to understand what you are trying to accomplish here.

*To get it running, ALL YOU NEED TO DO is close the neutral safety switch circuit* BUT to do this, you need to know which wires on the auto tranny plug complete that circuit.

I seriously ran my auto ecu for 3 years before I finally swapped in a manual ecu. So, I repeat - you do not need to f- with the ECU to get it running. All fooling with the ECU will get you is no CEL light. This may matter for you - it did not matter for me.

Yeah I get what your saying about the neutral safety switch. And I get how you wired that up from the Trans plug.

And im really considering sticking with the auto ecu and harness, and figuring out the add stuff.

I really hate that cel though.

 

[zgensler31]

I have not personally used it before, but here is the link

Thanks. I'll get on here and get whatever we need for this.
[MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] could you compile a list of ANY diagrams that you could use to figure out the add.

 

[TheDurk]

Thanks. I'll get on here and get whatever we need for this.
[MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] could you compile a list of ANY diagrams that you could use to figure out the add.

You should get Engine Control, 4WD, and Starting and Ignition for both years. Also get the auto trans for '96. Get the whole chapter on these, which should include the pin-outs. (Later EWD's had the pin-outs in a separate Chapter. I'm not sure what they did in '96 and '98 as I have a '99.)

If you want to look forward to matching your other harness, you might need a pile of others, especially for those tricky truckside non-ECU plugs.